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[2013-08-29 14:41:21] - Pillsbury Effect . . . not found. ~a
[2013-08-29 14:40:17] - yah, ok. ~a
[2013-08-29 14:39:01] - a: i'm not like, completely discounting the concept, psychology is crazy and i wouldn't be surprised if there was like... The Pillsbury Effect, where people are willing to pay more for soda, when someone nearby is giving away free soda... or something. but i'd be really surprised, since it would be like, crazy unintuitive! - aaron
[2013-08-29 14:35:25] - a: i agree the optimal amount is probably different... but higher?? do consumers think, "well, this looks like it's worth about $20, but since i can pirate it, i'll pay $30...?" why would the optimal amount go up? intuitively, it would go down, or as xpovos pointed out, probably even stay the same - aaron
[2013-08-29 14:09:56] - Steam discounts spike sales. High cost specialty software packages have very low demand, and it's not just that they're niche. Cheap/nearly free apps are the focus of considerable consumer demand these days. The principles seem to still work, but they are nuanced. -- Xpovos
[2013-08-29 14:08:22] - a: A fundamental difference to be sure. And actually part of the problem for the suppliers in fighting off the pirates. If supply is infinite it's harder to demonstrate the harm to the producer since, essentially, all the costs are fixed. That said, the purchase history of software product still seems to follow supply/demand graphs pretty well. -- Xpovos
[2013-08-29 13:59:41] - with software, supply is (nearly) indefinite. unless you refer to each type of game as a supply. still, i think supply-and-demand graphs are very different for virtual products. ~a
[2013-08-29 13:54:10] - a: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Supply-and-demand.svg -- Xpovos
[2013-08-29 13:53:29] - a: Hmm. That's an interesting thought experiment. I think it depends on motivation for piracy. If the sole motivation for piracy is economic "I can get it cheaper"; or "I can't afford it at that price, so I'll steal it" then I don't think piracy affects optimal price too much because these 'purchasers' are too far down the demand curve to affect it. -- Xpovos
[2013-08-29 13:45:51] - the "optimal amount" is probably very different with and without piracy. ~a
[2013-08-29 13:45:13] - yah, ok. ~a
[2013-08-29 13:08:07] - a: i think the best argument for, "piracy raises game prices", might be like... if piracy drove small game companies out of business, so that everybody had to release their games through Origin, giving EA a monopoly so that they could manipulate the market... i mean i could see something like that happening someday, but indie games are flourishing atm - aaron
[2013-08-29 13:06:42] - a: yeah i understand "sometimes", but again in those cases, i just don't understand where piracy fits in. it's not like a company will say, "well now that piracy is happening, we want to make more money, so let's charge the optimal amount".... companies charge what their customers will pay. - aaron
[2013-08-29 11:26:42] - "if increasing the price increases the revenue then why does piracy matter at all?" price increases probably affects piracy in complex ways. anyways, i said "increasing the price increases revenue sometimes", not increasing the price increases revenue always. ~a
[2013-08-29 11:16:38] - aaron: Wow, and it's not even that close. -Paul
[2013-08-29 11:00:26] - http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/mlb-big-league-stew/fish-water-two-marlins-slide-third-same-time-084248218.html marlins give the astros some competition in the bonehead department. - mig
[2013-08-29 10:53:30] - http://autos.yahoo.com/blogs/motoramic/top-10-u-cities-worst-drivers-show-little-152123985.html top 10 cities with the worst drivers, according to insurance companies.... washington DC represent! - aaron
[2013-08-29 09:14:36] - a: i mean... can you think of a way that rampant piracy is increasing the price people will are willing to pay for games?? i think that's what would have to happen for that argument to hold water... "people are pirating our games so now our optimal price point for video games has increased..."- aaron
[2013-08-29 09:10:41] - a: in other words, i agree that piracy can arguably decrease revenue, i don't know if it's true or not but it's at least a logical argument. but it doesn't make any sense that someone could raise their prices to increase revenue in response to piracy... - aaron
[2013-08-29 09:08:55] - a: if increasing the price increases the revenue then why does piracy matter at all? it's not like companies will decide they want less revenue, because fewer people are pirating their product. if $10.1 gets them more revenue, then they'll charge that much regardless of piracy - aaron
[2013-08-28 15:04:46] - hay! take it back. ~a
[2013-08-28 14:54:52] - a: Heh, that must be a first. You're welcome. -Paul
[2013-08-28 14:54:02] - aaron: Ah, ok. I guess it depends on the definition of "healthier". Yeah, adding veggies isn't going to make you less fat, really, if you eat the same number of slices, but I'll bet the person who eats veggie lovers everyday of their life lives longer than the one who eats meat lovers (or even just plain cheese) for their entire life. -Paul
[2013-08-28 14:46:48] - paul: i like your link, thanks. ~a
[2013-08-28 14:43:33] - aaron: increasing the price increases revenue sometimes. it's probably a very complex graph. anyways, i'm not saying that my argument is flawless, i'm saying that it's much more logical than assuming that 100% of piracy is 100% loss in revenue. have you lost all respect for me now?
~a[2013-08-28 14:11:17] - paul: it's not like two slices of veggie pizza is going to get you less fat than two slices of cheese pizza, or like those grease-soaked green peppers are going to help with your vitamin A deficiency or something - aaron
[2013-08-28 14:08:30] - paul: http://www.pizzahut.com/nutritionpizza.html i'm not sure how to interpret this, but comparing something like the "veggie lovers" to a "cheese" pizza is about as close as i can imagine. inexplicably, it has fewer calories, so i think they're doing something weird here which i can't explain. but it still kind of serves my point - aaron
[2013-08-28 14:05:53] - a: if increasing the price increases revenue, then just charge $100, you silly goose
- aaron[2013-08-28 13:55:28] - a: http://www.forbes.com/sites/timworstall/2012/03/22/alcohol-obesity-and-smoking-do-not-cost-health-care-systems-money/ Yeah, dying from lung cancer at a younger age generally costs less than dying from something else at an older age. -Paul
[2013-08-28 13:50:55] - they do? ~a
[2013-08-28 13:47:44] - a: Well, that one I knew, since they die off early enough. -Paul
[2013-08-28 13:04:08] - smokers arent a drain on our health care system?
~a[2013-08-28 12:55:13] - *** Paul assume defensive stance
[2013-08-28 12:55:06] - aaron: Wait, adding vegetables to your pizza does make it healthier, right? It just doesn't make it healthy. -Paul
[2013-08-28 12:45:21] - ~a
[2013-08-28 12:45:20] - aaron: i could make a similar argument (hopefully you won't punch me). 75% of pc players pirate your game. if you were (somehow using magic) to remove all piracy from the game, you'd get 10% more players would have bought your game instead of just not playing it. without piracy-magic, we decided to charge $10.1 instead of $10 to make up for the "loss" in revenue.
[2013-08-28 12:37:11] - paul: if anybody made the argument i'd lose all respect for them and punch them
- aaron[2013-08-28 12:36:26] - paul: i guess i can see the logic there; like if 75% of PC players pirate your game... then instead of charging $40, you have to charge $160 per copy. i mean it's one of those intuition-based arguments that doesn't have any basis in reality, kind of like "smokers are a drain on our health care system" and "add vegetables to your pizza to make it healthier" - aaron
[2013-08-28 12:29:25] - mig: I actually don't know either. I thought maybe both, but totally not sure. -Paul
[2013-08-28 12:27:10] - why are you asking me?
~a[2013-08-28 12:22:48] - a: actually i'm confused, which is copyrighted: the audio of the speech or the text? - mig
[2013-08-28 12:13:14] - a: The speech is copywrighted, greatly restricting how it can be used. -Paul
[2013-08-28 12:12:26] - copyright buzz? ~a
[2013-08-28 11:51:45] - So a lot of copyright buzz today about the "I have a dream" speech. -- Xpovos
[2013-08-28 11:34:15] - Aaron: Of course, that always brings up the chicken or the egg thing where somebody would point out that people pirate games because they're too expensive.... -Paul
[2013-08-28 11:33:51] - Aaron: I thought I had heard that publishers needed to charge such high prices for games because only x% of people pay for games instead of pirating them so each person who buys the game is "paying" for Y people. -Paul
[2013-08-28 11:28:30] - paul: hmm, i don't know about that. i think the most common argument is that privacy decreases revenue from games, not that it drives up prices - aaron
[2013-08-28 11:26:16] - a: yeah i saw them when i was a kid! back when chuck e. cheese was still "Showbiz Pizza" - aaron
[2013-08-28 11:20:06] - Paul: To the developer. It's assumed a zero-sum, costing money to the producers lowers the cost (on average) to the consumers. -- Xpovos
[2013-08-28 11:19:21] - a: The_Rock-afire_Explosion -- Xpovos
[2013-08-28 11:14:03] - Aaron: Isn't the argument usually that privacy increases the cost of games? -Paul
[2013-08-28 10:58:18] - i've seen that animatronic band. am i not the only one? they were "playing" in a Chuck E. Cheese's in fairfax years ago. ~a
[2013-08-28 10:51:34] - paul: one possibility is that piracy keeps prices lower. i don't know how to pirate PS3 or XBox games so I'd have to buy them if i wanted to play them. but if I really thought ME3 was too expensive, I could probably find a cracked version on the pirate bay or something - aaron
[2013-08-28 10:48:57] - http://youtu.be/Fd5c3Qtcr_w guy buys an animatronic band from a pizza place and has them play "pop lock and drop it" - aaron
[2013-08-28 10:38:44] - i bought a game in the store recentlyish. gta4. and he carded me! i said ". . . what . . . are you serious . . . ?" and he said "yes" . . . i told him i was 27 and handed him my id. ~a
[2013-08-28 10:35:37] - I bought Wrath of the Lich King in a store. Thats the last PC game I can definitely remember buying in a store. PC games also have more piracy concerns to deal with. I'm not sure what the actual effect is but its a factor in PC games I would imagine. -Daniel
[2013-08-28 10:31:56] - mig: Ooh, interesting question. It might be Lord of Darkness for me. 10+ years without buying a new computer game in store? -- Xpovos
[2013-08-28 10:28:47] - point. - mig
[2013-08-28 10:28:44] - Also, remember that the cross-over of PC and console publishers is relatively recent. Back in the days of the PS2/Xbox1 the 2 markets were fairly distinct, with the 2 distinct accepted price points ($49.99 for console, $39.99 for PC). Even with the cross-over coming with that, there's no way publishers would expect the PC market to accept a $20 increase in price
[2013-08-28 10:05:32] - I'm also trying to remember the last pc game I actually bought in a store ... I literally cannot remember now. - mig
[2013-08-28 09:59:19] - I guess the biggest thing is that the PC market is way ahead of the console in terms of digital sales model, which allows for a much more varied pricing models (which usually means lower prices overal, vive laisse faire!) - mig
[2013-08-28 09:56:35] - paul: these days yes, but it wasn't always that way. - mig
[2013-08-28 09:56:12] - Also steam popularized the whole crazy sale thing. PSN and I'm assuming XBOX live do have sales, but it's limited to their digital library. - mig
[2013-08-28 09:56:12] - mig: They aren't the same publishers? -Paul
[2013-08-28 09:54:14] - paul: 1) much more competition due to more accessibility for independent developers (who sell games cheaper) in the market. Publishers in the PC realm also have less power and are much less united on things like price points as console publishers are. - mig
[2013-08-28 09:36:21] - So, I've noticed that PC versions of games are almost always cheaper than console versions when they first come out, and you can often get ridiculous deals on the PC versions just a few months after they are released. Are there any theories as to why? -Paul
[2013-08-28 09:10:16] - Xpovos: The lesson, as always, is that the Japanese are awesome. -Paul
[2013-08-27 23:29:10] - Japan just seems to do some things better. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hWJ2XP7Rlh8 -- Xpovos
[2013-08-27 17:25:23] - yah. ~a
[2013-08-27 17:16:39] - a: "Now... let me be clear"? -Paul
[2013-08-27 16:48:05] - paul: i don't think that's a word-for-word transcript. i think bobama would have said "...now..." between every sentence for some reason. ~a
[2013-08-27 16:02:15] - mig: And I'm not usually a fan of just throwing around threats of impeachment, but this certainly seems like a perfect scenario where congress can and should be reminding the president that there is such a thing as a separation of powers. -Paul
[2013-08-27 16:00:05] - mig: It boggles my mind why Congress doesn't seem to care that Obama has just completely ripped one of their most important powers from them. -Paul
[2013-08-27 15:56:03] - paul: not surprising, but pretty sad how much of a polar opposite candidate Obama and Presiden Obama's stances on Libya and (probably) Syria is. - mig
[2013-08-27 15:39:47] - http://www.boston.com/news/politics/2008/specials/CandidateQA/question2/ Interesting answers to this question by Obama and Biden. Also, totally loved Ron Paul's answer. -Paul
[2013-08-27 15:38:00] - a: My climate change point was a little more complicated, but it basically boiled down to: "There are far too many unknowns to take such a drastic act like the Kyoto Protocol". -Paul
[2013-08-27 15:36:57] - a: I don't know why, but I can't quite figure out what you're saying (for either population or climate change points). For clarification on my part, I was only saying that overpopulation doesn't seem like it's going to be a problem (and underpopulation seems more likely)... -Paul
[2013-08-27 15:31:53] - paul/xpovos: you're aware now that population-busts weren't an imperative issue that could be easily seen in a 10 year period. we made it, rejoice!
and . . . i guess the same can be said for climate change. sort of. ~a
[2013-08-27 14:08:57] - Xpovos: Because of the recent news about the UN's report on climate change, I keep thinking about stuff I said about global warming 10 years ago and how I think it actually is still fairly relevant. Strange how some things change so much and others change so little. -Paul
[2013-08-27 14:06:57] - And when you have humans... well. Perhaps it's better not to get married? See, I went St. Paul on you there. -- Xpovos
[2013-08-27 14:06:30] - Paul: Well, that's not surprising. 10+ years ago I was talking about population busts and generational issues because of low birth rates; another fairly recent topic brought up again. These things have never really been resolved. Nor will they. Alimony in particular is tricky because the best solution to them is to not get divorced. -- Xpovos
[2013-08-27 13:54:12] - Xpovos: I'm pretty sure I was talking about that way back in college (10+ years ago!). -Paul
[2013-08-27 13:40:10] - a: Sorry, I wasn't trying to scare you. I saw the article and was amused. If I were that guy I'd probably go the contempt of court route myself. Intentionally. Maybe I'd change my mind though. I have no first hand experience with jail. Maybe it's worse than I think. -- Xpovos
[2013-08-27 13:03:27] - <deadpan>andrew, stop trying to scare me, it won't work.</deadpan>
~a[2013-08-27 13:02:08] - xpovos: http://www.ehow.com/how_7764758_calculate-alimony-virginia.html . . . doesn't seem so bad. not sure when these are *re*calculated, or how long they last, but the sources go into more detail. i read elsewhere that for younger people in virginia, alimony isn't permanent or indefinite. ~a
[2013-08-27 12:11:23] - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yPrtQ9AdoM0 "star drunk", a short film written by drunk people and performed by drunk actors - aaron
[2013-08-27 12:01:44] - http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-08-26/jail-becomes-home-for-husband-stuck-with-lifetime-alimony.html At what point do we get to laugh about this? I think I'm already there. -- Xpovos
[2013-08-27 09:36:59] - xpovos: i ended up playing for 3-4 hours last night, it's really really addictive. it's clearly not for everyone, as the subject matter is pretty depressing and the gameplay is very dry. it's very challenging, but not unfairly so, and while the gameplay is pretty simple, it's complex enough that you're always making mistakes, trying to find ways to improve - aaron
[2013-08-26 13:30:57] - aaron: Oh man, it's a video game. I assumed it was a board game. Works well either way. Let me know what you think after you try it. -- Xpovos
[2013-08-26 13:21:24] - xpovos: i'm looking forward to trying it tonight when i get home - aaron
[2013-08-26 13:20:45] - xpovos: difficult, and keeping the rules and exceptions straight is challenging. on top of all that, there's a bunch of moral decisions... like, do you separate a family, because one of the family members had an expired vaccine certificate? do you trouble a high-ranking general for a trivial missing document, when he's threatening to have you tried for treason - aaron
[2013-08-26 13:16:49] - xpovos: all their paperwork is in order. but later, citizens are vaccinated, so you have to accept them if they have the vaccine paperwork. but some of the paperwork is forged, or it'll be accurate but have the wrong person's name. so you'll have 4 or 5 documents to shuffle around, and while you can drag and drop them, your desk is very small so it's stays - aaron
[2013-08-26 13:15:56] - xpovos: http://www.metacritic.com/game/pc/papers-please/critic-reviews it's scoring really well on metacritic, the mechanics are interesting. people give you their documents, but sometimes they don't give you all of the important documents and you have to ask. sometimes there are things like, a polio outbreak in country X, so you have to reject them even if - aaron
[2013-08-26 13:06:23] - aaron: That's an interesting concept. How are the mechanics? -- Xpovos
[2013-08-26 13:03:15] - http://papersplea.se/ "papers please" is a dystopian game where you play an immigration officer, examining people's passports, work permits, and spot inconsistencies, forgeries, expired documents, or suspicious countries of origin. you want to avoid errors, but if you work slowly you are paid less and can't afford heating, food, or rent for your family - aaron
[2013-08-26 12:37:55] - http://sports.yahoo.com/news/witness-man-ohio-trial-scammed-223208342--nba.html i can't remember when the conversation of the "nigerian prince scam" came up a few weeks ago, but just goes to show you can pretty easily scam people with lots of money who should know better. - mig
[2013-08-26 11:49:17] - That link isn't as direct as I like, but you can use it to filter down to the 2001-2002 donations of Planned Parenthood, a huge amount of which was spent in Illinois as a response to that law. -- Xpovos
[2013-08-26 11:47:07] - http://influenceexplorer.com/organization/planned-parenthood/a3bf2b2a33a84534a706a2d04c52de95
[2013-08-26 11:47:04] - But they as an organization lobby heavily against laws such as Illinois' 2001 "Infant Born Alive Protection Act", which Barack Obama notoriously voted against (repeatedly). And then they continue to back Obama of course that's a reasonable thing, given politics, but they don't distance themselves from people with those positions. -- Xpovos
[2013-08-26 11:45:01] - a: #1 is easier, that's a youtube video of (assuming, because I didn't click through here, but the youtube video I describe exists, so I figure they're the same) Cecile Richards, President of PP, discussing the issue of babies delivered during or post failed attempts to abort. You can try to spin this as a personal opinion rather than org. position, [...] -- Xpovos
[2013-08-26 11:25:49] - how are #6 or #1 real or factual? neither of them have links to anything but youtube. ~a
[2013-08-26 11:03:05] - a: it may just be a typo the url says 2013. - mig
[2013-08-26 11:01:08] - $150K in July 2023? Man, that's only like $110K today! -- Xpovos
[2013-08-26 10:57:07] - a: So, for me the real, factual, and most damaging elements of the buzzfeed bit are: #6 and #1; #2 I deal with pretty often, unfortunately but I can't provide any better sources (privileged). #6 is one of the big bones of contention about the whole abortion debate, though. It's the fun intersection of science, religion, ethics and history. -- Xpovos
[2013-08-26 10:56:18] - mig: hmmm, nevermind. apparently the link is dated "July 25, 2023" as a hoax of some sort? ~a
[2013-08-26 10:41:58] - a: Well, there are the inline citations, but they all lead back to that biased site, as I mentioned. As for the racial elements, what you have is generally low level staffers on the phone not realizing they're up against a politically minded person rather than a genuine donor. That said, PP's founder, Sanger, DID have racial motivations. -- Xpovos
[2013-08-26 10:41:29] - a: too bad the regulators will probably ruin it. - mig
[2013-08-26 10:41:15] - "the GX3200 has been licensed for commercial use in several states" i had no idea. ~a
[2013-08-26 10:39:23] - wtf, welcome to the future: uber trying to purchase 2,500 driverless cars from google. i had no idea these were for sale yet. back-of-the-envelope calculation: 375million/2,500 cars: each car costs $150k? that's actually pretty low. omg, omg, omg, i hope this actually happens. ~a
[2013-08-26 10:32:40] - "The organization reported that in 2010, it provided 747,607 breast examinations." what PP offers is typically called breast screening. or breast examinations. which they offer in huge numbers. these lead to referrals and mammograms done off-site. ~a
[2013-08-26 10:29:11] - a: What is the full truth? -Paul
[2013-08-26 10:22:06] - . . . PP doesn't offer mammograms . . . what a typical lie-by-omission that is. no rational journalist would post those words knowing the full truth. ~a
[2013-08-26 10:12:29] - well, the lack of inline citations on a piece like this makes me seriously doubt the factual accuracy. especially when it's so outrageous. i highly doubt any of those things are happening and the complete lack of citations from something so disreputable helps me doubt it so easily. ~a
[2013-08-26 10:02:23] - a: You're rational though. Also, we've probably hashed through a number of the specifics that would have been in the in-line already; maybe not though I tend to keep the PP stuff away from the board because it's rarely an interesting debate. -- Xpovos
[2013-08-26 09:59:30] - xpovos: i'll complain about the factual accuracy. or, more correctly, i'll complain about the lack of in-line citations. ~a
[2013-08-26 09:52:56] - That said, factual stories presented with obvious bias, with source links only to a heavily biased site doesn't exactly instill confidence. This publicity could have been awesome if it had linked to the actual studies, rather than their own website's reporting on those studies. -- Xpovos
[2013-08-26 09:48:41] - mig: That's the thing, not a single person railing against the "8 things" that I've heard has complained about factual accuracy. They're just saying stuff like "this is hateful speech", "this is bigotted", or whatever the catchphrase of the day is. I haven't personally verified the data, but I am familiar with the backstory on some of them, and those are factual. --
[2013-08-26 09:46:48] - xpovos: well, are the "8 things about PP" actually verifyable true? If so, no controversy, really. Just people upset what they perceive to be their haven from opposing views gets invaded by the other side. - mig
[2013-08-26 09:46:32] - a: Hmmm, I don't know if I agree about that. I argue for what I think is right, regardless of what is consistent. If I argued for consistency, wouldn't I be thrilled with the Obama administration after the GWB one? (Burn!)
-Paul[2013-08-26 09:25:34] - it's weird that you're arguing against consistency. usually you argue for consistency vs what's right or what's legal. regardless, i agree. ~a
[2013-08-26 09:24:17] - Or are we just completely doing away with the whole "congress is responsible for declarations of war" thing? -Paul
[2013-08-26 09:23:09] - http://www.aljazeera.com/news/middleeast/2013/08/2013824134639716658.html Can everyone here at least agree that in this case with Syria, it really should be a decision made by congress and not the president? -Paul
[2013-08-24 09:14:35] - I read the buzzfeed link last night. http://observer.com/2013/08/amid-anger-over-anti-abortion-post-buzzfeed-says-its-still-figuring-out-whether-to-draw-lines/ then this. I don't see where the controversy is, but that's probably my internal bias. -- Xpovos
[2013-08-23 14:40:35] - Paul: As a Southerner, I should think my answer would be obvious. But again, I'll point to my word of contemplate, versus actually performing the act. In actuality, since Lincoln didn't order the march specifically and certainly not the methodology used along it, the best course of action would have been to take out Sherman. -- Xpovos
[2013-08-23 13:53:59] - Xpovos: Yeah, and it's a very fine line during a civil war. Was Sherman's march to the sea during the US civil war an example of a mass-death event against an innocent population that would've justified taking out Lincoln? -Paul
[2013-08-23 13:06:12] - http://money.cnn.com/2013/08/23/news/companies/time-warner-cbs-blackout/index.html?hpt=hp_t2 did anybody hear about the time warner CBS black out? - aaron
[2013-08-23 12:56:36] - And to clarify I don't think the "street clearing" deaths in Egypt are sufficient in the same way; the difference is that those in the streets, though innocent, were provocateurs. There's no evidence, that I have seen yet, that those around Damascus were anything but ordinary citizens in their every-day lives. -- Xpovos
[2013-08-23 12:55:04] - And one HOPES, even though it may be an irrational hope, that our calm and measured response of waiting to depose until there has been something akin to a mass-death event against an innocent population would be both instructional to future leaders (don't do this, it'll get you killed) as well as to the population (they're not trying to meddle, just save lives). -- X
[2013-08-23 12:52:52] - Paul: Yeah... it's not easy and there's a distinct chance of significant retaliation, i.e. terrorist activities. Which is a very good reason to hesitate to do that; I just said I'm now willing to contemplate it. -- Xpovos
[2013-08-23 12:49:43] - Xpovos: No matter how hated a leader is, he probably does have the support of at least a portion of the population. Kill a few leaders in a row and I have to imagine you've pissed off the majority of the population at least once. -Paul
[2013-08-23 12:49:03] - Xpovos: Understood, but taking out the mass murderer DOES help his opposition greatly, whether it's our goal or not. And I have to believe that initiating a series of assassinations of a leader of a country is one of the best ways to piss off the population of that country. -Paul
[2013-08-23 12:41:13] - -- Xpovos
[2013-08-23 12:41:06] - Paul: Deposing a mass murderer doesn't necessarily imply we want to help his opposition. There is a significant moral issue with just taking the guy out and leaving a power vaccuum, but I can make a solid case that such a situation is actually better than what is currently in place. And if the next tyrant to fill the vaccuum does something similar... rinse&repeat.
[2013-08-23 12:36:27] - a: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nazism#Ideology I tried to find an issue they believed which wasn't offensive to reply with as a tongue-in-cheek answer, but I had some trouble. -Paul
[2013-08-23 12:34:03] - Xpovos: Even if they were the lesser of two evils, that decision still came to bite us in the ass and I think a compelling argument could be made that we would be better off having not gotten involved. -Paul
[2013-08-23 12:33:28] - what's so evil about the nazis? ~a
[2013-08-23 12:33:03] - Xpovos: And looking at our history, the US has a pretty terrible record of trying to support the lesser of two evils against the perceived greater evil. That's what led us to support Saddam Hussein and Osama Bin Laden and the Soviet Union. -Paul
[2013-08-23 12:31:28] - Xpovos: I agree there's a lot of bad things going on by bad people, I just don't know if I see any good guys. This isn't like WW2 where we had the US as the good guys opposing the evil Nazis. This civil war is more about the lesser of two evils and the devil you know vs the devil you don't. -Paul
[2013-08-23 12:13:29] - As long as Syria was just a civil war, I was OK with doing nothing. The tipping point is this past week's nerve gas attack near Damascus. That's not a civil war anymore, it's a use of extreme force by an illegitimate government against it's own people. More akin to Nazi Germany. -- Xpovos
[2013-08-23 12:00:41] - a: Are we still involved in Libya? I agree with the logic that we can't be involved everywhere, but it looks like Syria or Egypt could slide right in to the Libya slot that is currently vacated. -Paul
[2013-08-23 11:48:00] - paul: well let's say, you're right. that all the reasons to get involved are the same. can't the reason be: we already got involved. that we can't be involved everywhere? ~a
[2013-08-23 10:22:57] - starting poitn. -Daniel
[2013-08-23 10:22:53] - Paul: I wouldn't put Egypt in the same situation as Libya / Syria yet. I think Syria is much more comparable. If we did decide to intervene in Syria I don't know that I would be upset. I don't think intervening in Libya requires intervening in Syria though. I think from what I know Syria feels more civil warish and Libya didn't feel that way to me would be my...
[2013-08-23 10:10:33] - aaron: I like that he said his favorite color is green, because that's my favorite color.
-Paul[2013-08-23 10:04:40] - Well, that was useful if for no other reason than that I have learned of /jobs4bitcoins. -- Xpovos
[2013-08-23 10:02:38] - Daniel: What's your rationale for intervening in Libya but not Syria and Egypt, then? They seem like very similar situations. -Paul
[2013-08-23 09:58:56] - a: Was the "amusing" comment directed at me? I think it's amusing because the reasoning to get involved in Libya (humanitarian reasons, mostly) for some reason only seem to apply to Libya despite the fact that very similar things are going on in other places now. -Paul
[2013-08-23 09:43:15] - daniel: my favorite part of the ron paul AMA was how snoop dogg left a comment, "NEED 2 BLAZE 1"... which is now the 3rd highest "question" in the AMA - aaron
[2013-08-23 09:42:39] - daniel, somebody explains it in the comments, i assume you saw that. Bitcointipbot sets "up a wallet for the recipient, if he doesn't already have one". which is ... weird. setting up a wallet for someone is technically difficult: if i make you a wallet, then i know your private key. it would be equally weird if i told you i had set you up an encryption key. ~a
[2013-08-23 09:35:41] - a: Oops, didn't paste the link... http://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/1kw9u9/i_am_ron_paul_ask_me_anything/cbt8cyq -Daniel
[2013-08-23 09:35:20] - Also I was pro intervening in Libya but I think even at the time said it didn't mean you had to intervene everywhere always. -Daniel
[2013-08-23 09:34:41] - where ~a
[2013-08-23 09:33:48] - a: Here's an example of someone doing the bitcoin tip thing on reddit I mentioned to you one time. You seemed curious about it. -Daniel
[2013-08-23 09:27:28] - mig: your post implies consistency is more important than being correct. ~a
[2013-08-23 09:26:28] - why is it amusing? i mean . . . i understand there's probably some hypocrisy here, but what's the (cynical?) reasoning? ~a
[2013-08-23 09:26:22] - paul: well at least mccain has been consistent. Consistently wrong, but consistent all the same. - mig
[2013-08-23 09:26:11] - Maybe transform some portion of it into humanitarian aid... -- Xpovos
[2013-08-23 09:25:59] - Paul: I was anti-involvement in Libya. I was pretty non-interventionist with Syria and completely ambivalent to Egypt. The latest news makes me significantly more supportive of possible measures in Syria including potentially the use of force. Egypt's still kind of a little ball of pain, not much to be done there except remove $1.5B in military aid. -- Xpovos
[2013-08-23 09:07:56] - Xpovos: I've mentioned this a number of times on the message board, but I find it amusing that many of the voices who were so supportive of intervention in Libya are now much quieter about Syria and Egypt. -Paul
[2013-08-23 08:55:15] - the response has been suprisingly restrained from the US gov. - mig
[2013-08-22 22:30:55] - Syria? -- Xpovos
[2013-08-22 16:43:16] - The "white australian" is Christopher Lane. - mig
[2013-08-22 16:35:01] - ah. ~a
[2013-08-22 16:31:35] - a: I think he's the "White Australian" that was shot by somebody in that group of two black teens and a white one. -Paul
[2013-08-22 16:28:33] - paul: "seeming to try and make what happened to Lane 'their' trayvon case" i'm not trying to nitpick, i honestly don't know who lane is. ~a
[2013-08-22 14:01:37] - a: I don't see a typo. What is confusing you? -Paul
[2013-08-22 13:48:20] - http://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/la-me-ln-filner-ouster-20130822,0,4146102.story bob filner finally to resign as mayor of San Deigo, but not before probably filching taxpayers for some of his legal fees and potential damages that he would owe. - mig
[2013-08-22 13:08:01] - paul: well when you get basic facts wrong, I think that line has already been crossed. - mig
[2013-08-22 13:05:40] - i'm sorry, is there a typo in miguel's post? i don't know what we're talking about. ~a
[2013-08-22 13:03:21] - mig: However, if this case is used as an example of why the over-reaction to the Zimmerman/Martin case was crazy, I can support that. The problem is that it's a hard point to make without looking like the former. -Paul
[2013-08-22 13:02:36] - mig: To me, it's a thin line. Treating this as another (albeit opposite) Zimmerman/Martin case is ridiculous (although at least this time it looks like it's clearly murder and not just self-defense/an accident/etc). -Paul
[2013-08-22 12:51:03] - paul: it depresses me a bit that (though it's unsurprising) conservative outlets and talking heads are seeming to try and make what happened to Lane "their" trayvon case, complete with ignoring basic facts about the case. I get the anger and annoyance at how the more liberal sect tried to shamelessly exploit the Martin tragedy, but this isn't right either. - mig
[2013-08-22 11:01:02] - http://www.buzzfeed.com/bennyjohnson/harry-potter-witches-and-wizards-of-congress Some of these are a little off, but some of them are spot on. Members of Congress as characters from Harry Potter. -Paul
[2013-08-22 10:53:33] - And honestly, considering what the democratic party appears to stand for these days, I don't know if I disagree. -Paul
[2013-08-22 10:53:11] - It's interesting, though, that I apparently side more with the green party and the socialist party than the democratic party, according to that site. -Paul
[2013-08-22 10:41:44] - http://www.isidewith.com/political-quiz I'm a bigger fan of this quiz, which seems to ask more direct questions and give better results (I think I posted it before, during the presidential election). -Paul
[2013-08-22 10:41:15] - I'm not sure how informative I found that quiz, honestly, considering we all came up with pretty similar results. Also, my results seemed a little contradictory, calling me progressive and libertarian. -Paul
[2013-08-22 10:29:42] - I took the quiz thing and came out as a centrist university professor guy. -Daniel
[2013-08-21 17:29:36] - one of them is white, yes. ~a
[2013-08-21 17:26:35] - http://www.mediaite.com/online/fox-and-friends-daily-caller-falsely-report-3-black-teens-arrested-in-chris-lane-murder/ I guess it wasn't three black teens who murdered the Australian jogger? One of them is white? -Paul
[2013-08-21 16:32:07] - "[tourists] should think carefully ... you are 15 times more likely to be shot dead in the USA than in Australia per capita per million people" - Australian deputy Prime Minister link ~a
[2013-08-21 16:21:43] - a: Not a problem, you host this bad boy, we're just along for the ride. -- Xpovos
[2013-08-21 15:50:31] - xpovos: i restarted the server a few times. we ran out of disk space on a partition that is probably way smaller than it should be. ~a
[2013-08-21 15:26:50] - Sorry for the double post, I hit some weird web glitches. -- Xpovos
[2013-08-21 15:26:29] - mig: New level cap. Crap on a crutch. I was positive this was going to happen. Then they gave us paragon levels and I figured I was wrong. This makes no sense. -- Xpovos
[2013-08-21 15:15:44] - mig: New level cap. Crap on a crutch. I was positive this was going to happen. Then they gave us paragon levels and I figured I was wrong. This makes no sense. -- Xpovos
[2013-08-21 15:10:39] - mig: Yeah, I agree it's probably not productive, but I do think it's a good example of why so many people thought it was wrong for Obama to throw himself into the middle of what really should've been a local tragedy. -Paul
[2013-08-21 15:06:08] - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E50sUAMRH0s mike tyson plays mike tyson's punch-out for the first time - aaron
[2013-08-21 14:55:19] - paul: i get the point in some sense, but I guess the way the point is being made doesn't seem very productive imo. - mig
[2013-08-21 14:51:47] - mig: And he's pointing out the reverse case now (dead white person, black suspects) and pointing out the hypocrisy of him being quiet on this one. -Paul
[2013-08-21 14:51:16] - mig: No, and I think that's part of his point. My guess is he was annoyed that Obama injected himself into the Martin/Zimmerman case just because Martin "could've been his son" (ie, was a black male?). -Paul
[2013-08-21 14:01:57] - with new class - the Crusader. - mig
[2013-08-21 14:01:47] - D3 expansion "Reaper of Souls" has been announced. - mig
[2013-08-21 13:59:44] - paul: i'm not sure exactly what west is hoping to accomplish? There's much to criticize in how the president injected himself into the martin/zimmerman case, but I'm not sure this is really something that really is necessary? Do we really want to demand the president get inject himself into every tragic murder that occurs? - mig
[2013-08-21 12:45:12] - http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2013/aug/21/ex-rep-allen-west-calls-out-obama-over-oklahoma-ki/ I didn't realize it was three black teens that had shot the Australian baseball player. -Paul
[2013-08-20 16:27:42] - No, I'm pretty conservative. I'm libertarian-leaning in my conservatism, but when shoved I come down on the conservative side of things, typically. -- Xpovos
[2013-08-20 16:27:04] - a: I'm moderate about all things, except moderation.
-- Xpovos[2013-08-20 16:24:59] - you're admitting that you aren't a moderate?
~a[2013-08-20 15:48:03] - I want to see the person that poll thinks of as conservative, because that person is going to be scary. -- Xpovos
[2013-08-20 12:53:45] - according to that slackhalla poll, i'm also apparently a progressive, laissez-faire capitalist, "would generally be described as libertarian" and an idealist with few strong opinions (a pushover i guess!) - aaron
[2013-08-20 12:33:52] - a: Yeah, it took me a while to figure out why they kept referring to his partner. -Paul
[2013-08-20 12:27:31] - bah, this entire time i assumed they were using the word "partner" to mean in the "business partner" sense (though, i guess he might be both). ~a
[2013-08-20 12:11:48] - a: Yeah, the way a lot of government officials talk, I wonder if they really know what the point of a debate is. Obama had some similarly ridiculous lines about how he was all set to have a free and open debate before Snowden went and messed it all up by... letting us know that this was going on. -Paul
[2013-08-20 11:37:55] - cctv doesn't bother me nearly as much as the miranda stuff. or the nsa stuff. but i'd agree they're all troubling. ~a
[2013-08-20 11:32:40] - IIRC there are cameras litteraly everywhere in London now. - mig
[2013-08-20 11:24:27] - "You've had your debate. There's no need to write any more." wow. ~a
[2013-08-20 10:55:18] - paul: as far as police state tactics goes, the UK has definitely been light years ahead of the US, mostly due to not having as robust bill of rights hurdles that the US gov has to contend with at least sometimes. - mig
[2013-08-20 10:48:54] - http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2013/08/uk-agents-seeking-to-stop-leaks-destroyed-the-guardians-hard-drives/ The UK is looking even scarier than the US in cracking down on journalists. -Paul
[2013-08-20 09:48:50] - paul: i got the same thing. i think the test is either broken or has a weird definition on "progressive". - mig
[2013-08-20 09:19:07] - a: Same thing, except it first said, "These scores indicate that you are a progressive; this is the political profile one might associate with a university professor." -Paul
[2013-08-20 08:28:21] - a: Apparently I'm a tender-minded moderate. I'm not sure how that came about since I'm pretty harsh on some of those questions. -- Xpovos
[2013-08-20 00:28:10] - "Your attitudes towards economics appear capitalist, and combined with your social attitudes this creates the picture of someone who would generally be described as libertarian. " link ~a
[2013-08-19 15:54:08] - yah. right to silence in England and Wales talks about this. interesting side note, miranda (the original one) died by a fatal stab wounding. he wound up in jail a few times after the supreme court case, though i'm not sure why the first case wasn't a double-jeopardy situation. ~a
[2013-08-19 15:47:29] - a: Considering it's a US thing and not a Brazilian or UK thing... probably not.
-Paul[2013-08-19 15:45:25] - what a funny name. i wonder if miranda received his miranda warning. ~a
[2013-08-19 15:27:35] - a: True, and Manning is an even more extreme case than Snowden. You're right, it probably should be a big enough difference, even for the US government. -Paul
[2013-08-19 15:22:51] - my point is slightly different from yours though. wikileaks and snowden are not the same and shouldn't be treated as such. one is the leaker and one is the leakee. snowden took an oath not to do something that he then did. wikileaks took no such oath. greenwald/miranda took no such oath. they're journalists, which comes with extra rights/responsibilities. ~a
[2013-08-19 14:58:58] - a: Right, and I'm certainly not saying that's my position. I just think that this isn't too surprising considering how a lot of Western governments have treated Wikileaks and Snowden. -Paul
[2013-08-19 14:14:27] - if you start labeling journalists as terrorists, that's a dangerous direction. ~a
[2013-08-19 14:13:19] - i don't think greenwald is a terrorist by any reasonable definition regardless of manning/snowden's statuses. ~a
[2013-08-19 14:05:57] - mig: Well, it does seem to be the logical extension of the government's line of thinking. If Bradley Manning is guilty of treason for "helping terrorists"... and Snowden is a traitor (likely for the same reason), then anybody helping Greenwald could probably be said to be tied to terrorism too.... right? -Paul
[2013-08-19 13:44:48] - a: well he was apparently carrying some documents related to greenwald's work, so it's not that indirect. Though it makes the detention look even worse. - mig
[2013-08-19 12:04:15] - partner of interviewer of whistleblower? that's quite the indirection. ~a
[2013-08-19 09:25:28] - http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/aug/18/glenn-greenwald-guardian-partner-detained-heathrow I assume everybody here heard about this? Wow. A lot of government around the world are REALLY angry at this whole Snowden leak thing. -Paul
[2013-08-19 09:06:57] - a: I don't know if I would say I glossed over it. My point wasn't that Krugman was an idiot (although I would think somebody who is as knowledgeable as he is about politics and the budget should've caught that) but that it was bad reporting that led to the error. -Paul
[2013-08-16 23:03:55] - a: If he'd "quickly caught his mistake" it would never have made it to print. This wasn't off the cuff on the air, it was a prepared and edited statement. Mistakes still happen, even for Nobel winning-types, but he has a history of cherry picking data already. -- Xpovos
[2013-08-16 21:28:21] - "While Krugman was quick to catch and apologize for his mistake, this episode should prompt some new thinking among budget reporters and editors." we've quickly glossed over the fact that krugman was quick to catch his mistake. ~a
[2013-08-16 15:31:28] - Politicians don't help much, of course. I can't count the number of times Obama claimed to have cut trillions of dollars in spending without ever mentioning that it was over a ten year period. -Paul
[2013-08-16 15:30:21] - http://www.pbs.org/newshour/businessdesk/2013/08/mindless-budget-reporting-fool.html I'm in complete agreement with this article about how the media does a bad job on reporting budget numbers. I've even seen examples where comparisons between 10 year numbers and yearly numbers were used in the same sentence. -Paul
[2013-08-16 14:27:55] - aaron: Yeah, similar theme/joke, and I thought this one was better in stand-alone. I think it's good that it's getting some mainstream traction--not that Dilbert is necessarily mainstream, but it's progress. -- Xpovos
[2013-08-16 14:14:25] - xpovos: i don't know if you saw the dilbert before that one, but it was pretty good too - aaron
[2013-08-16 13:10:43] - I was impressed that <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=slzQOyS5TqQ&feature=youtu.be"/>this cinematic</a> was done on a nearly decade old graphics engine. It makes me wonder how far off we are from pre-rendering cinematics will be a thing of the past. - mig
[2013-08-16 11:40:31] - I found this fascinating: http://www.dcurbanmom.com/jforum/posts/list/319965.page didnt realize there were quite so many poop incidents in federal buildings. ~g
[2013-08-16 09:18:40] - Paul: Well, I mean they're falcultative carnivores, i.e. omnivores. If they're talking about fruit just to explain that the cat-bear isn't an obligate carnivore, they're not doing a good job of it. -- Xpovos
[2013-08-16 09:10:12] - Xpovos: Yeah, I noticed that too and thought it was a little strange. Maybe there's some way that both can be right? Is the scientific definition of a carnivore different than what we think? -Paul
[2013-08-16 08:57:13] - The NSA knows no bounds: http://l.yimg.com/bt/api/res/1.2/sIxr.PfS9az3w78IYDgmnA--/YXBwaWQ9eW5ld3M7Zmk9ZmlsbDtoPTE4NztweW9mZj0wO3E9ODU7dz02MDA-/http://media.zenfs.com/en_us/News/ucomics -- Xpovos
[2013-08-16 08:42:14] - Paul: My thoughts on the bear-cat. The article continues to refer to it as a carnivore throughout the article, despite the fact that it mentions at least twice that it eats "primarily fruit". I understand journalist aren't scientists, but isn't it their job to know the language, at least a little? How about the editors? *sigh* -- Xpovos
[2013-08-15 14:50:44] - mig: Yes and yes. -Paul
[2013-08-15 11:29:44] - paul: so let me get this straight. Candidate suggesting someone donate to a PAC = not illegal. Donation amount of $1 mil to PAC = not illegal. But a candidate suggesting a donation that is more than the max to donate to the candidate's campaign is ... illegal? That's assinine. - mig
[2013-08-15 11:12:57] - http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-2394475/Meet-olinguito-shy-bear-cat-thats-new-carnivore-discovered-West-35-years.html Half Cat. Half Teddy Bear. Need I say more? -Paul
[2013-08-15 11:01:37] - aaron: Yeah, and it's not like anybody even made any ridiculously bad throws or anything. It's just a really fast runner and some bad luck with where the ball ended up going. -Paul
[2013-08-15 11:00:46] - http://reason.com/blog/2013/08/14/idiotic-campaign-finance-rule-may-make-y I know people think there are good reasons to have campaign finance laws, but the ones we have right now just seem ridiculous at times. -Paul
[2013-08-15 10:58:51] - paul: holy crap that's a hilarious play. such a combination of bad luck and bad throws - aaron
[2013-08-15 10:53:32] - http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1738542-blue-jays-rajai-davis-scores-after-comedy-of-errors-on-simple-grounder?utm_source=cnn.com&utm_medium=referral&utm_cam Some more baseball bloopers. Not the Houston Astros this time (and not quite as embarrassing). -Paul
[2013-08-15 10:12:58] - mig: and i'm not against activism, i just don't respect politicians specifically because they behave like activists. i'm neutral on that. i'm fine with activists who behave like activists, and a politician behaving like an activist doesn't really influence my opinion on them very much - aaron
[2013-08-15 10:11:15] - mig: it was unpopular? what was specifically unpopular? do you mean that like... more than 50% of people were in favor of stuff like segregation or against voting rights for african americans? - aaron
[2013-08-15 10:04:40] - I mean, it was pretty unpopular in the south at the time, so you'd prefer all the civil rights activits and politicians who took a stand there wait until southeners warmed up to their views a little more? - mig
[2013-08-15 10:03:48] - aaron: I guess I just don't see why there has to be a connection. Just because Obama might be more wishy-washy in terms of following public opinion (and even then, I think it's only for a few issues) doesn't mean the next president will be. -Paul
[2013-08-15 10:01:59] - aaron: man you must have hated the civil rights movement in the 60s ... - mig
[2013-08-15 09:51:52] - paul: so i'm OK having obama not push marijuana decriminalization wnen it's unpopular... if it means i don't have to sit through two other presidents pushing unpopular ideas that i disagree with - aaron
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