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[2018-04-10 12:31:48] - mig: Could you give me a recap of what the main crux of the argument is? Is it the accent that is offensive? That a non-Indian voices him? The stereotypes (convenience store owner)? Something else? -Paul
[2018-04-10 12:29:10] - The documentary ultimately argues that Apu is basically a minstrel in blackface, another argument I can't really quite agree with. - mig
[2018-04-10 12:27:54] - I found it on amazon. $5, so not a heavy expense. - mig
[2018-04-10 12:27:25] - mig: Where is the documentary available? Netflix? -Paul
[2018-04-10 12:25:49] - I can understand the viewpoints and the reason for frustration ... to a point. Sure it sucks to be kind of typecast into a center type of accent and roles. I'm not sure that's all Hank Azaria and Apu's fault though. - mig
[2018-04-10 12:24:44] - a: Okay. 1967... Yeah, off the top of my head, I would guess most Republican presidents since then haven't been good on fiscal responsibility (especially when it comes to the debt). -Paul
[2018-04-10 12:24:02] - so I ended up watching that whole "The Problem With Apu" documentary since the subject piqued my interest enough. My feelings are a little mixed. - mig
[2018-04-10 12:24:00] - it still holds true if you look at 50 years. ~a
[2018-04-10 12:23:31] - a: Either way, though, I'll grant you that Democrats have probably been largely the better party for minimizing debt (when they control congress and the presidency) for the past 30 years or so. -Paul
[2018-04-10 12:21:53] - paul: the cbo numbers go back to 1967 so i've been using 1967. ~a
[2018-04-10 12:21:43] - a: Especially since for half (most?) of those two administrations, they had the opposing party controlling congress. -Paul
[2018-04-10 12:20:44] - a: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fiscal_conservatism How are we defining fiscally conservative? Wikipedia mentions low taxes, reduced government spending and minimal debt. Is that a fair definition? Also, how far back are we looking? In our lifetimes, we've only had two democratic presidents, so it's a ridiculously small sample size. -Paul
[2018-04-10 12:08:04] - paul: fiscally, could democrats be better? sure. of course. but that will always be the case. i'd say, if you compare them to republicans though, democrats are the fiscal conservatives. it's not even close. ~a
[2018-04-10 12:07:31] - paul: "I'm not sure I would agree that democrats are in any way fiscally conservative" our government spends less and it taxes more when they control the presidency or when they control congress compared to the republicans (percentage of GDP). the only exception to that is obama, and really the confounding factor there was the 2008 financial crisis that happened before he was president. ~a
[2018-04-10 11:26:45] - a: I'm not sure I would agree that democrats are in any way fiscally conservative. Maybe the best that can be said is that at least they don't usually cut taxes while increasing spending? -Paul
[2018-04-10 10:58:58] - paul: i don't have recent info on that. i do have recent info on our budget though. typical cut and spend republicans? fiscal conservatism bullshit is for democrats, am i right? ~a
[2018-04-10 09:55:52] - Xpovos: That's part of what got me thinking about it again. For as much as I was worried about Trump going off the rails and lobbing missiles everywhere, it SEEMS (and I want to stress "seems") like he has been fairly restrained so far. I just don't know if that's because the media has been busy focusing on other things or not. -Paul
[2018-04-10 09:51:49] - The only reason we didn't in a similar situation last year is that we told the Russians to get out about half an hour before we started the strikes. I don't think Trump is going to give the advance warning this time. -- Xpovos
[2018-04-10 09:51:05] - Paul: Give it a few days. We'll probably see another strike on Syria and that will increase the media attention on the issue and possibly get some good numbers out. Particularly if he "accidentally" hits some Russian troops at the same time. -- Xpovos
[2018-04-10 09:28:08] - a: If I recall, you posted a link a few months ago which showed that Trump had really stepped up drone strikes and was killing a lot of people and it was being under-reported by the media. Do you have any extra info (maybe more recent) on that? Curious if he's still on a bad pace. -Paul
[2018-04-10 09:26:39] - aaron: I don't know if I've seen any from start to finish, but I think Rocky 4 (the one with Ivan Drago) is pretty iconic. -Paul
[2018-04-10 08:42:59] - a: i just saw rocky for the first time last night. for those of you who have seen them, how many rocky movies do you think i should watch? i watched a trailer for rocky ii and it looks good - aaron
[2018-04-09 21:44:58] - a: Top. Men. -Paul
[2018-04-09 17:22:38] - man, trump gets the best lawyers. here's one: "let's see who you are. watch your back, bitch" also "i already know where you live, i’m on you. you might as well call me. you will see me". then there's this other one who just had his shit raided. am i missing something? ~a
[2018-04-09 14:52:40] - fucking love the idea of linuxboot too. ~a
[2018-04-09 14:49:44] - most recent linux journal is free for download. i swear this isn't about bitcoin . . . i actually only read the first article, which is really fun: "Instead of readers always agreeing to publishers’ terms, publishers will agree to readers’ terms" "Look for Customer Commons to do for personal terms what Creative Commons did for personal copyright licenses"! ~a
[2018-04-09 14:09:44] - I think I've seen the breakfast club but honestly I'm not 100% sure. -Daniel
[2018-04-09 13:24:29] - paul: i hadn't heard about that "problem with apu" thing but it's funny the simpsons actually acknowledged it in an episode. i heard the story about how the apu character was originally created, and the creators were already aware of the stereotyping issue in the 90s so i don't think it's fair to say it was a different era - aaron
[2018-04-09 13:20:28] - a: i just saw the breakfast club for the first time last year! it was good - aaron
[2018-04-09 13:06:23] - paul: you haven't seen the breakfast club?! ~a
[2018-04-09 12:49:18] - I'm wondering if this is a permanent shift in our culture or a temporary thing. I'm not sure I see any reason to think it's temporary. What do you all think? -Paul
[2018-04-09 12:47:57] - https://slate.com/arts/2017/12/looking-back-at-love-actuallys-workplace-harassment.html One more example: Love Actually apparently also has a ton of problematic parts when seen with a more modern view. -Paul
[2018-04-09 12:45:53] - And apparently Molly Ringwald has pointed out some problematic parts of The Breakfast Club (haven't read her piece or seen the movie). -Paul
[2018-04-09 12:44:44] - Heck, I still can't get over that a bigger deal hasn't been made of Jimmy Kimmel's previous life working on the Man Show. -Paul
[2018-04-09 12:44:05] - But I have been reading some stuff about how problematic some of the movies and tv shows and other works from our childhood (or even later) can seem in a more modern context. Example: The webcam scene from American Pie... -Paul
[2018-04-09 12:41:02] - https://www.usatoday.com/story/life/tv/2018/04/09/simpsons-offers-toothless-response-criticisms-racist-stereotyping-problem-apu/498462002/ Has anybody been following the news about the Simpsons and The Problem with Apu? I am only barely aware of it. -Paul
[2018-04-09 11:42:15] - paul: "I feel like most companies should be itching to get out from underneath the thumb of credit card companies" it's a dual-edged sword. if the alternative is cash, many companies don't like dealing with cash. especially online companies, hah. i wish there was an alternative that was easier than cash
~a[2018-04-09 11:40:39] - a: "you are not everybody" - Very true. -Daniel
[2018-04-09 11:35:01] - Paul: Yeah I know gas stations sometimes offer a few cents off to pay cash. But I don't do that either. -Daniel
[2018-04-09 11:32:28] - Didn't gas stations (and maybe other places) used to offer discounts if people paid in cash so they could avoid paying the credit card fees? I feel like most companies should be itching to get out from underneath the thumb of credit card companies. -Paul
[2018-04-09 11:29:31] - "I'm not sure it would be enough for me to actually do it" i do it even when the discount is 0%. you are not everybody
~a[2018-04-09 11:28:35] - daniel: "If amazon started charging 5% less for purchases made with crypto that would be the strongest argument in crypto's favor that I would have heard" many *small* online companies give discounts for spending in bitcoin. ~a
[2018-04-09 11:27:55] - I guess an interesting thought would be what percent discount would amazon have to offer to make me want to use crypto? Cause while 5% would be a strong argument I'm not sure it would be enough for me to actually do it. -Daniel
[2018-04-09 11:27:28] - daniel: if i can cut out X% from my expenses i would lower prices by Y% to get more business. 0<=Y%<=X% in general. ~a
[2018-04-09 11:26:56] - If amazon started charging 5% less for purchases made with crypto that would be the strongest argument in crypto's favor that I would have heard. -Daniel
[2018-04-09 11:24:12] - daniel: "Wouldn't companies just continue to charge the same amount for things because people are used to paying it and just have more profit?" the ones that don't will get more business. the game theory of how to take profit and how to take business will lower the prices some. ~a
[2018-04-09 11:21:23] - I guess have there been studies or anything that prices went down when corporate taxes went down? (hopefully thats a similar enough situation where external factors suddenly reduce costs) -Daniel
[2018-04-09 11:20:14] - Wouldn't companies just continue to charge the same amount for things because people are used to paying it and just have more profit? -Daniel
[2018-04-09 11:19:41] - Reading through https://www.reddit.com/r/CryptoCurrency/comments/8ave2z/blockchains_are_not_the_product_wallets_are_not/ - one of the points that came up with last week (I think) showed up as the statement "The merchant pays fees when they charge your card, and these are reflected in the price of goods." Is the theory that prices of goods will go down if we all changed to crypto and those fee's didn't exist? -Daniel
[2018-04-09 11:14:12] - a: And sentiment in terms of government regulations and ad banning by google and company seems to be at a low... although I guess the SEC still has some weighing in to do. -Paul
[2018-04-09 11:13:38] - a: I actually feel like bitcoin has been a lot more stable since the options market has opened up. Yes, still more volatile than the market, though. I'm a little curious where bitcoin goes from here, though. The hype seems to have died down a bunch, but most of the arguments for a currency like bitcoin are still legit. -Paul
[2018-04-09 11:08:07] - yeah, when it comes to volatility, i definitely have a different bar for bits. 1% would be a stable day for bits. ~a
[2018-04-09 11:02:07] - a: At least it's up today. Can't say the same for bitcoin. -Paul
[2018-04-09 10:31:34] - paul: yet another 1% day. sigh. ~a
[2018-04-06 23:40:28] - because they're illigitimate. ~a
[2018-04-06 20:38:06] - Somewhat relevant to a previous conversation, but apparently the federal government seized Backpage.com. -Paul
[2018-04-06 16:16:07] - not sure the thesis, but an interesting combination of datas ~a
[2018-04-06 14:14:41] - daniel: former. i assume the government (lets assume i'm talking about the authoritarian united states government here and NOT the "green on that map" german government or irish government) not being able to freeze someone's accounts is a good thing. ~a
[2018-04-06 13:38:58] - a: I'm not sure I understood your response. Is your position that the gov not being able to freeze someone accounts a good thing or a consequence of the larger system that you support despite it? -Daniel
[2018-04-06 13:30:19] - they were drinking from a fountain that is pouring like an avalanche coming down the mountain ~a
[2018-04-06 13:18:35] - Daniel: I just think that it's weird that everybody seems to agree that Americans have a problem where we don't save enough and consume too much and everything, but our monetary policy (and tax policy) basically punishes savers and encourages people to spend. -Paul
[2018-04-06 13:17:22] - Daniel: I think at the very least, it would be something worth experimenting on. Perhaps with an alternative currency so that we always have another one to fall back on in case of disaster? -Paul
[2018-04-06 13:16:48] - Daniel: Yeah, so this kind of macro-economic theory is certainly something I'm not 100% positive on, but I'm skeptical of the claim that we NEED to have constant inflation and that a set money supply would doom us all to some sort of deflationary spiral. -Paul
[2018-04-06 13:07:18] - daniel: "I get that there are bad state actors out there but is your position that gov shouldn't be able to freeze accounts / stop payments to certain people at all?" the first part requires the second part. you wanna arrest me for breaking the law, that's your prerogative. you wanna freeze my bank account, sure go ahead and try. ~a
[2018-04-06 12:43:26] - a: Like is that a argument for crypto or just a consequence of a large system that you still support despite that? -Daniel
[2018-04-06 12:42:15] - a: So I get that there are bad state actors out there but is your position that gov shouldn't be able to freeze accounts / stop payments to certain people at all? -Daniel
[2018-04-06 12:36:52] - Is the theory that a hard cap on the number of bitcoins would prevent all inflation once they are all mined out? Is that a good thing? We are way out in economic theory here. -Daniel
[2018-04-06 11:11:14] - It's especially insidious considering how closely the central bank (in America, at least) is tied to the government in terms of the fed chairman and buying government treasuries and enabling a lot of deficit spending. -Paul
[2018-04-06 11:10:35] - I'm sure Adrian already touched on it, but I think some people find the appeal of a limited amount of Bitcoin appealing as well. There are lots of libertarians who dislike centralized banking because of the way they print money and inflate the money supply, which is kinda like a subtle theft of purchasing power from everybody. -Paul
[2018-04-06 11:06:59] - a: Oh, I had somebody recently accidentally send me money over Paypal the wrong way so they (PayPal) took a cut. It was a little annoying.
-Paul[2018-04-06 11:06:52] - daniel: believe it or not, the united states isn't the only authoritarian regime. there's also . . . north korea. and china. basically, i think bitcoin can be useful for "illegitimate purposes" (defined by the government) in any country that isn't green: green means good ~a
[2018-04-06 11:04:49] - daniel: i think they have tried to freeze wikileaks's bank accounts and visa has also frozen their shit before. same story for TPB. ~a
[2018-04-06 11:04:36] - daniel: "Does bitcoin address any use cases where there are legitimate reasons to prevent someone from paying someone or freezing someones account" define legitimate. some countries have weird laws. some countries are super authoritarian. like the united states for instance. ~a
[2018-04-06 11:02:44] - paul: i think the one time daniel addressed you he meant to be addressing me (though i'm not positive on that). paypal does definitely take a cut, for the record. they also freeze accounts. also they're super centralized. they lack pseudonymity as well. among many other problems. ~a
[2018-04-06 11:01:02] - a: Yeah, we got spoiled recently with the low volatility. I think this is a little bit of the pendulum swinging the other way now. -Paul
[2018-04-06 11:00:36] - Wow, that conversation blew up while I was busy. I might go back and re-read later, but if something got addressed to me that I ignored.... sorry. -Paul
[2018-04-06 10:54:50] - a: Does bitcoin address any use cases where there are legitimate reasons to prevent someone from paying someone or freezing someones account? I'm not really aware of a way that could happen but just wondering if I'm not aware of something. -Daniel
[2018-04-06 10:52:23] - paul: wtf is up with this market. up 1% or down 1% every day. i long for the good-ole 0.5% days. ~a
[2018-04-06 10:48:00] - anyways, i don't really want to give you the hard sell. some people get it and some people don't. i gave you a bunch of reasons why it seems cool to me, over usd, and those reasons don't seem to catch your eye. i'd say you have to actually try it to understand, but i'm not sure that would work for you. maybe we'll talk again in 2050 when it's either gained popularity or waned. ~a
[2018-04-06 10:44:09] - he didn't even know what country i live in. but i completed the commits in git and he made sure i was paid for my time. that's something that couldn't happen in the old system. it would have been even more compelling if someone was trying to squash our work: if someone was trying to freeze our bank accounts. if someone was trying to make it hard for him to pay me. bitcoin would prevent anybody from stopping us. ~a
[2018-04-06 10:41:55] - "crypto was planning on growing that base" i don't want the base to grow by leaps and bounds. i want it to grow slowly. i want it to be used in the situations where it works best: two people who have never met and don't have eachothers banking information want to settle a debt. in 2013 i wrote some code for a guy in the bitcoin space on github. he paid me a few bits for my time. i don't know his real name and he doesn't know mine. ~a
[2018-04-06 10:15:49] - "crypto wants to grow one for themselves" not necessarily. i want it to grow organically. i want it to grow with usage. i don't want people to invest, or to buy and sell, just like you don't want people to invest in the USD. i want people to earn and to spend. ~a
[2018-04-06 10:00:21] - I guess my starter position was thinking about how crypto was planning on growing that base. I guess the answer is those arguments you provided and expecting them to have enough traction across a global populace to make it viable. -Daniel
[2018-04-06 09:58:52] - a: True USD does depend on that market being there but currently its already there and crypto wants to grow one for themselves. -Daniel
[2018-04-05 17:48:12] - daniel: i'm not so deluded that i think just because the internet worked that way, therefore bitcoin will work that way, but i'm definitely under the impression the usd could become the minority some day. america has been on top for like 100+ years. these things often come to an end. whether it's the euro that takes over or the yuan, or the bitcoin, i can't say for sure. ~a
[2018-04-05 17:46:34] - daniel: i envision a (possible) world where usd is what the old people use.
sometimes new technologies change the world. like the internet. and old people are like "why?". ~a[2018-04-05 17:43:12] - daniel: "its depending on their being a sufficient market out there of people that don't agree with me on those points?" usd is depending on there being a sufficient market out there of people that do agree with you on those points. ~a
[2018-04-05 17:42:59] - also signing off soon but can talk more tomorrow if you want to continue
-Daniel[2018-04-05 17:42:10] - So its depending on their being a sufficient market out there of people that don't agree with me on those points? I guess as long as there is enough of a critical mass then it still works. -Daniel
[2018-04-05 17:41:29] - a: So if I'm happy with all those things then I guess crypto just isn't for me? Which I'm sure is fine for both sides in any given case but doesn't crypto need adoption on some level? -Daniel
[2018-04-05 17:40:23] - a: I guess I currently at least ok with the gov running the currency of my choice. I'm happy with its stability. I'm happy that I don't have to worry about them forking or doing some weird shit where suddenly my old money doesn't work with my new money. I'm happy that everywhere takes it. I'm happy with the systems that exist to get money from point a to point b. -Daniel
[2018-04-05 17:39:06] - a: I get that its nice to have a choice. And cool that you made a non USD choice. I'm just not sure why I should make that choice. I watched the video. Didn't do much. -Daniel
[2018-04-05 17:36:16] - daniel: it comes down to choice. i feel i should have the right to choose which currency to use. i also don't want there to be middle-men in the way of me and other people. try this video, dude. it covers a lot of this. ~a
[2018-04-05 17:35:53] - key difference there, bad typo, sorry! -Daniel
[2018-04-05 17:35:44] - isn't*
[2018-04-05 17:35:37] - a: And I guess gold is "our" (our being our countrie's) currency. -Daniel
[2018-04-05 17:34:42] - a: I'm not aware of gold being a currency? I thought it was a commodity? -Daniel
[2018-04-05 17:34:09] - a: I'm not sure I understand point 1 of USD being dumb. -Daniel
[2018-04-05 17:33:49] - well you've implied that the fed is needed to regulate the rate we print dollars. if that's indeed a necessity, why stop at USD? why not also regulate the rate we "print" other currencies. like gold? ~a
[2018-04-05 17:33:03] - daniel: "You think move to crypto will prevent loans?" nope. ~a
[2018-04-05 17:32:52] - a: I don't understand how the fed preventing hyper inflation has anything to do with gold? /confused -Daniel
[2018-04-05 17:32:39] - "Or would they just not and it would be up to the market?" yeah, that one. ~a
[2018-04-05 17:31:54] - a: You think move to crypto will prevent loans? -Daniel
[2018-04-05 17:31:48] - daniel: "thats what the fed is around for to monitor that and prevent it" why doesn't the fed also regulate the rate at which gold is mined? ~a
[2018-04-05 17:31:13] - a: So what tools do you think the gov should have in dealing the economy? Monetary policy is a huge one so if you take that away I guess I'm curious what you think they would do. Or would they just not and it would be up to the market? -Daniel
[2018-04-05 17:30:58] - daniel: 1. USD is dumb because every dollar was loaned into this world. you can't get a new dollar without someone making a loan. you can give someone worth without begging the government for a USD. 2. USD (M2) is printed at about 6% per year. in other words, next year, there will be 6% more dollars loaned out than there was this year. ~a
[2018-04-05 17:30:03] - a: The response of the Fed after the 2008 recession was to lower the prime rate to 0 which led to more money being lent out in order to increase spending in order to try and help the economy. That seemed on some level to work. Sure hyper inflation would cause problems. But again thats what the fed is around for to monitor that and prevent it. -Daniel
[2018-04-05 17:27:29] - daniel: "Like what they use to fight against recession?" how does printing more dollars fight against recession? i can think of ways of how printing more dollars could *create* recession. print too many dollars and people will stop spending and start moving their money outside of your purview (gold, and foreign cash, etc). that'll create a recession really fast. ~a
[2018-04-05 17:27:05] - .
[2018-04-05 17:26:38] - a: USD is dumb because...? -Daniel
[2018-04-05 17:26:09] - a: Right so now that I realize I have a choice, I don't get why I would make a non USD choice. -Daniel
[2018-04-05 17:25:27] - daniel: "currently I don't think I get it." ok, that's fair. and there's plenty to be wary of for sure. i don't think i got it until i started using it. i realized that USD is dumb and the only reason i used USD in the first place was because i didn't realize that i had the option to not use USD. i didn't think i had a choice. ~a
[2018-04-05 17:25:22] - a: Isn't that what the Federal Reserve does? Like monetary policy? Like what they use to fight against recession? -Daniel
[2018-04-05 17:23:30] - daniel: "I'm not sure I get why being ... decentralized" is good. well i like to watch the M2. we basically print out dollars at an insane rate. and how do we even decide how quickly we should be printing it out? do you even know? because i, do not. i'm not sure how we decide what the M2 should be. ~a
[2018-04-05 17:22:11] - no that's not wrong. it was still worth 25 minutes of my life though. and i already knew all of that shit from obsessively learning about bitcoin the past 8 years.
~a[2018-04-05 17:21:51] - a: I'm all for people continuing to work on it and make progress with it and maybe one day something will click, but currently I don't think I get it. -Daniel
[2018-04-05 17:19:30] - a: I know he did an episode but I thought the super high level take away was neutral do your own research. Is that wrong? -Daniel
[2018-04-05 17:18:44] - a: I did but then we moved on. I'm not sure it does much to convince me either. I'm not sure I get why being scarce and decentralized are good things. Those seem to be the main things it has going for it over fiat and its claim of being easily translatable seems to be questionable to me. -Daniel
[2018-04-05 17:17:32] - daniel: did you see the john oliver episode? i loved it a lot. they did a great job with it. also did a deep dive of the downsides as well. even scratched the surface of our memes. here's the link for when you have 25 minutes to kill ~a
[2018-04-05 17:15:09] - daniel: that's one reason, sure. i like that i'm not depending on a company to send money though. and that it's open source. and it uses open protocols. i also like that it's decentralized. oh i also like that it's not government backed which means it's harder for one entity to fuck it up. but there are other reasons too. did you click on that image i sent? ~a
[2018-04-05 17:12:39] - That was super disjointed
-Daniel[2018-04-05 17:12:32] - -Daniel
[2018-04-05 17:12:29] - ?
[2018-04-05 17:12:28] - Paul: Does paypal take a cut when I send you money there
[2018-04-05 17:11:22] - a: So is the point there that prices of things online would be cheaper if we could all trade money without going through the banking industry? -Daniel
[2018-04-05 17:09:55] - daniel: exactly. mailing me cash is like the only way we know of. it's not like you can just open up a TCP socket with me and just send me an IOU over the socket. pre-2009 we couldn't. ~a
[2018-04-05 17:09:13] - daniel: install mycelium on android and post your bitcoin address here, i'll send you $1. it's seriously so painless, and until you try it you have no idea how easy it is. ~a
[2018-04-05 17:08:50] - a: I could mail you a nickel? -Daniel
[2018-04-05 17:08:21] - a: I'm going to guess I can't / don't know how. If you had an account at BofA I could though!
-Daniel[2018-04-05 17:08:08] - daniel: being able to use open-protocols and open-standards to send money over the internet was a pipe-dream pre-2009. ~a
[2018-04-05 17:07:29] - daniel: send me some money without paying a fee to visa. try it. just send me $.05 and i'll send it back. ~a
[2018-04-05 17:06:27] - "sometimes poor people would benefit from being able to spend money on the internet" it goes even further than this. tons of poor people have dumb-phones. these phones can send money. you could do this via western union (centralized, and they take a huge fee), or visa (centralized, and they take a huge fee), or you know, use a decentralized system. ~a
[2018-04-05 17:06:14] - a: Why is it a bullshit network? I honestly am not aware of the "visa gods" as you phrased it. -Daniel
[2018-04-05 17:04:55] - "You could have the same things with crypto currencies" true. true. but sending money over the internet *requires* the visa network. iow, you're lured in by the visa gods. that's not the case with crytpocurrencies: you aren't *required* to use their bullshit network. ~a
[2018-04-05 17:03:13] - daniel: yes. if you don't have a bank account and you don't have a credit card (which is like billions of people mostly outside of the united states), you can't spend money on the internet. sometimes poor people would benefit from being able to spend money on the internet. ~a
[2018-04-05 17:03:07] - a: Credit cards are just a layer over currency though. You could have the same things with crypto currencies. -Daniel
[2018-04-05 17:01:58] - daniel: well it's pretty indirect, but with btc you aren't dealing in "debt" (credit) you're dealing in debit. it's not about, you put $1000 on your credit card, you can pay that back whenever you want. it's about you had $1000 and you spent it. kinda like the difference between a debit card and a credit card. ~a
[2018-04-05 17:01:42] - a: They can participate in e commerce? I guess? -Daniel
[2018-04-05 17:01:03] - a: How are poor people going to benefit from crypto currencies? -Daniel
[2018-04-05 17:00:33] - a: Minimum payment like on credit cards? How does crypto currency have anything to do with that? -Daniel
[2018-04-05 17:00:03] - daniel: maybe some day. yeah. ~a
[2018-04-05 16:59:51] - daniel: maybe. ~a
[2018-04-05 16:59:38] - a: You think the poor are going to benefit from crypto currencies? -Daniel
[2018-04-05 16:59:30] - daniel: right now we pay a ~3% tax to the visa gods. the world gdp is like 70T/year, so you do the math. that doesn't even account for the poor saps that fall for the minimum-payment trap. imagine not having that huge drag on our economy! ~a
[2018-04-05 16:56:44] - daniel: there's lots more though. do you care about international transactions? do you care about dealing with the unbanked? do you care about dealing with entities who can't easily get a bank account? there's a lot of classes here, think of the poor, or poor countries, or children, or non-humans (computers). i love daydreaming about scenarios where a computer can perform operations without a human operator. ~a
[2018-04-05 16:54:28] - a: I don't care in particular (currently) about it but for people who are pro crypto don't they need to convince other people / businesses to use it? -Daniel
[2018-04-05 16:54:24] - daniel: oh what's the selling point? take your pick. you don't care about the governmental ownership part. what do you care about? do you care about inflation? do you care about the ACH and VISA networks? if you're a programmer you should care. dealing with those networks is a huge headache. ~a
[2018-04-05 16:51:43] - "If you need the masses to support your currency for it to be a currency and the masses don't mind gov in some form doesn't that seem like a problem for your currency?" i don't follow. if you could use USD and BTC (or BCH) everywhere, and they both were relatively stable, why the fuck would you care if one was backed by the government or not. being pro-government and being pro-government-currency seem to be tied together in your head? ~a
[2018-04-05 16:51:13] - a: But I'm not sure why I care about that? Or why I want a non gov backed currency? So if that is the value of the currency and I'm not sure that attribute is appealing to the masses isn't that a problem for the currency ever gaining wide adoption? -Daniel
[2018-04-05 16:50:09] - a: Because I'm not sure that moving away from gov backed currency is going to move the needle for the masses. So then what is the selling point of crypto? Like on those subreddits whenever the question of the 'value' of bitcoin or whichever coin comes up generally thats the answer they come up - currency that doesn't need gov. -Daniel
[2018-04-05 16:47:41] - daniel: "animosity for currency backed by gov because that gives gov power and they don't like that. That seems an odd underpinning for something that they want to catch on and become broadly adopted" why? i have strong animosity towards a government backed currency. i also want bits to catch on. i hope government backed currencies move from 100% of usage in our daily lives to n, where n is somewhere between 0% and 100%. ~a
[2018-04-05 16:45:19] - daniel: i read r/btc and r/bitcoin yes. i used to read them religiously, but the past 12 months i've sort of backed-off a bunch. they're both very toxic environments. ~a
[2018-04-05 16:43:42] - If you need the masses to support your currency for it to be a currency and the masses don't mind gov in some form doesn't that seem like a problem for your currency? -Daniel
[2018-04-05 16:43:11] - I'm not surprised that libertarians enjoy that aspect but I'm not sure that aspect is the basis to build a currency on. -Daniel
[2018-04-05 16:41:36] - Daniel: Cryptocurrencies have been popular with libertarians for many years for mainly that reason. I'm not sure why you think it's so odd, though. A currency that the government can't control, particularly a truly anonymous one (which I know bitcoin isn't quite one), would be a huge boon to people trying to escape what they see as government overreach. -Paul
[2018-04-05 16:38:55] - http://www.ign.com/articles/2018/04/05/amazon-reportedly-committed-to-five-seasons-of-lord-of-the-rings-tv-series I have no idea why this came to mind, but this made me think of Atlas Shrugged. I always thought the best adaptation would be a mini series instead of a movie. Maybe Amazon or Netflix will take the plunge. -Paul
[2018-04-05 16:34:27] - a; Reading through the debates / thoughts on some of them a lot of the underlying arguments for crypto tend to rely on an animosity for currency backed by gov because that gives gov power and they don't like that. That seems an odd underpinning for something that they want to catch on and become broadly adopted. -Daniel
[2018-04-05 16:32:56] - a: Do you read any of the subreddits for crypto currencies? -Daniel
[2018-04-05 10:53:22] - i'm not surprised. ~a
[2018-04-05 10:29:06] - a: Sounds like it. Not sure why you're surprised. I would guess we agree on around half the "contentious" issues of our time. -Paul
[2018-04-05 10:14:50] - paul: so we agree?
~a[2018-04-05 10:08:21] - a: So it's more than just a ratings agency, it actually could outright forbid you from doing certain things based on who you are friends with? Yeah, sounds pretty anti-Paul. -Paul
[2018-04-05 10:07:26] - paul: probably. though it has been a while since we agreed on something, so let's be sure. it's a state-run credit agency (i feel you'd already be against it), that won't let you buy certain things if you have a low enough credit rating. also it looks at the rating of your friends to decide your rating. also they look at more than just whether you're worthy of lending to decide your rating. ~a
[2018-04-05 09:59:01] - aaaron: I haven't clicked on any of these links and know nothing about this other than reading what you all have said, but knowing what you know about me, I assume it's a safe assumption to say that I would hate this?
-Paul[2018-04-05 09:24:28] - aaron: yeah i'd leave the country immediately. it's things like that that make me question roth accounts: can you transfer roth accounts to other countries? ~a
[2018-04-05 09:16:08] - additionally it's sort of frightening that people who hate the system, and wanted to get out of the country, would be discouraged from congregating since it would lower their score and bar them from flying. you'd want to just sort of poker face it and pretend you're leaving the country temporarily but you love china's policies - aaron
[2018-04-05 09:06:49] - i mean, and i'd hate it. and i'd want to leave the country. but if i was living in america and the choice was, "have one sketchy friend" or "air travel and having a personal vehicle," well... ...maybe if i rode my bike more
- aaron[2018-04-05 09:05:54] - so in a realistic scenario where i have the friends i have now, and then someone's like, "hey we should hang out!" and i'm aware of felony drug charges on their record... but they seem like a nice guy... i mean, yeah. i have a trip planned to reno in 1 month. i could see the government's social black mirror thing impacting my decision to welcome that person into my life - aaron
[2018-04-05 09:04:44] - https://www.marketplace.org/2018/02/13/world/qa-china-s-social-credit-system here's a concrete list of things which get impacted if your rating is lower; you can't fly or take trains, you're barred from certain clubs/hotels; you can't buy a personal vehicle; your child can't attend private school, etc, etc - aaron
[2018-04-05 09:02:35] - a: i mean intuitively i just want to say "no it sounds terrible!" and take the easy out. but realistically, all my friends are wealthy adults who make good decisions, graduated college, pay their debts and purchase high quality american goods, so i'd have to think about what this would really imply. - aaron
[2018-04-04 23:18:31] - aaron: still sounds horrible. that black mirror episode was distopian. I feel that some/many of the people in the YouTube link acknowledge it's a bad idea too. you agree right? you would stop hanging out with people with low ratings? no, right? this seems uncontroversial. ~a
[2018-04-04 17:58:37] - a: also, they made it sound participating in certain online activities harms your rating but i couldn't tell what they meant by that. ...since it's china, it might have to do with things like circumventing their firewall or using non-chinese sources for news or politics - aaron
[2018-04-04 17:57:13] - a: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AAIKh7AnTIk i watched this video earlier which included man-on-the-street interviews with a few chinese citizens, and talks about things that will harm your rating. being friends with poorly rated people harms your rating, purchasing cheap "knock off" goods harms your rating, and purchasing certain items like junk food harms your rating - aaron
[2018-04-04 17:50:09] - aaron: that sounds horrible.
reminds me of klout. the fact that it's run by the government makes it seem that much worse. is it just a horrible combination of credit ratings, and national id cards, and mass surveillance prism/x-keyscore, all wrapped up into one thing? they're trying to centralize something that should be even less centralized than it currently is? ~a[2018-04-04 17:14:14] - like i always thought it would eventually branch off of social networking since there's a lot of potential people you'd want to network with, it would sort them based on who it thought you would get along with, and whose posts you'd want to see. ...but then you'd eventually have some sort of generic, "how well i get along with people" score which maybe you'd be able to look up, like a credit score - aaron
[2018-04-04 17:11:10] - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_Credit_System have any of you guys heard about china's proposed social credit system? i always thought something like this would come about in the future but thought it would be more peer-driven rather than stemming from the government - aaron
[2018-04-04 11:12:49] - a: Yeah, 5 seems a little too small, but I also worry that once you get above 5, it starts to get harder to remember which you've picked. Or maybe that's me and my advanced age. -Paul
[2018-04-04 10:20:47] - paul: well definitely keep the number under control. you'll lose meaning if the number gets too large. 5 is fine. 10 might be too big. 7? ~a
[2018-04-04 10:10:59] - a: Oh, I wasn't necessarily advocating for changing things up for our challenge (although I'm also open to it). I was more going back to brainstorming what a "fantasy investing" game might look like and how many stocks would be a good amount for a "team" and for "drafting". -Paul
[2018-04-04 09:48:44] - Paul: In theory the more stocks you pick the closer you come to replicating the index. Not sure if thats good or bad for me for the challenge but in real life I would certainly advocate for owning more stocks (or all the stocks!) -Daniel
[2018-04-04 08:05:07] - sure let's try 10 in 19. maybe no blacklist this time? 500m market cap minimum? etf & mutual fund allowed? duplicates allowed? ~a
[2018-04-03 22:29:56] - Although I guess it's silly to ask Daniel on some level.
-Paul[2018-04-03 22:29:44] - aDaniel: Random question, but regarding our stock market challenges, do you think picking 5 stocks in general works well or it would work better with 10 stocks? I think 5 is better because it's easier to remember and keep track of, but am curious of your opinions. -Paul
[2018-04-03 17:00:41] - I interviewed for EA Mythic a really long time ago (they were located by Fairfax Town Center). I was already working at pragmatics for probably under market rates already and I probably wouldn't have taken a pay cut to jump over, but probably would have accepted working below market value maybe. - mig
[2018-04-03 16:58:07] - I mean, it's not much different than game development companies. Lots of people willing to make less money and put in more hours for the prestige of the position. - mig
[2018-04-03 16:31:37] - Which isn't totally shocking. If I wasn't married I'd probably be willing to work stupid hours for the Rockets or Spurs. -Daniel
[2018-04-03 16:30:47] - He told me basically the same things as that article though - that there is a lot of competition and while not in so many words if I wasn't willing to take a discount and be willing to work at least 60+ hours it probably wouldn't work out. Lots of people are willing to throw work / life out the window for the NBA -Daniel
[2018-04-03 16:29:07] - Software dev in support of the team / scouting / analytics stuff. So probably data modeling / statistical stuff? Maybe digesting and doing weird stuff with SportsVu data? Not 100%. -Daniel
[2018-04-03 16:27:48] - It was awhile back - I don't remember the exact title, but software development. Apparently they use to contract out all their dev work but were / are working on bringing it in house. So at the time they had one full time dev / dev lead and were looking to hire up to a team of five. The guy I talked to said he worked 80 hour weeks regularly. Yikes! -Daniel
[2018-04-03 16:25:57] - Daniel:"I actually got a phone interview with the Spurs" Wow, sweet! That's exciting regardless of how it ended up, although I guess it's also a little sad. -Paul
[2018-04-03 16:22:52] - daniel: what was your job going to be? ~a
[2018-04-03 16:08:04] - https://cleaningtheglass.com/how-to-get-a-job-in-the-nba/ Interesting read about trying to get a job in the NBA. I actually got a phone interview with the Spurs and both sides realized I wasn't a good fit due to several of the points in this article. I wasn't willing to work super crazy hours for super low pay at this point in my life. -Daniel
[2018-04-03 12:19:10] - If anyone was interested in seeing A Way Out, rather than playing it, I'll be streaming the start of a playthrough tonight on my Mixer channel. If you've not heard of it, A Way Out is a multi-player story driven game that has to be played by two people working together. It's gotten very strong reviews and is an interesting concept. -- Xpovos
[2018-04-03 11:58:19] - paul: it's user based so yes you need a reddit account. - mig
[2018-04-03 11:57:42] - Daniel: I don't see how to put in a key. I guess maybe I need a Reddit account? -Paul
[2018-04-03 11:40:28] - Not sure I like two player games though, almost all the ones i played yesterday were decided by how got the best consume/produce loop going. - mig
[2018-04-03 11:39:57] - aaron: I did not, in fact, have Brink of War enabled. I was able to get in a few games of Race with prestige. It's interesting. - mig
[2018-04-03 11:26:55] - if you follow the link in the article over here they talk about how it was installed in 2015. so weird that it only lasted a few years. ~a
[2018-04-03 11:25:12] - huh: red "X" shoulder lanes on 66 are going away? ~a
[2018-04-03 10:41:43] - paul: "is it better to look at presidents or who controls congress?" depends on who effects the market. you started with "we never discussed if [presidents] should get blame for when the market goes down", so that's what i based my analysis on. also, i went further back. all the way back to kennedy. it still holds up. ~a
[2018-04-03 10:31:40] - paul: betray it! ~a
[2018-04-03 10:15:27] - Paul: Once you click the link you should be able to put in the key and join (or betray) my circle. There isn't really a point to the circle other than reddit shenanigans. That said don't betray it! -Daniel
[2018-04-03 10:12:50] - Daniel: I don't understand your link, but I also barely understand Reddit.
-Paul[2018-04-03 10:12:33] - a: Oh, yeah, I've seen the correlation between Republican presidents and the market before. Problem is small sample size. Even throughout our lifetimes, we're talking about, what? 4 Republican presidents and 2 Democratic ones? Also, is it better to look at presidents or who controls congress? -Paul
[2018-04-03 09:51:06] - a: Kills the circle. Each user gets ones. Just reddit april fool's wackiness. -Daniel
[2018-04-03 07:41:06] - what happens if someone clicks "betray"? ~a
[2018-04-02 23:38:42] - For those who reddit: https://www.reddit.com/r/CircleofTrust/comments/897kpz/umrc1arks_circle/ RocketsHakeemHarden -Daniel
[2018-04-02 18:15:42] - god it's even more striking if you include inflation. ~a
[2018-04-02 17:32:00] - paul/mig: in our lifetimes, republican presidential years have under-performed even inflation. even including dividends. that's very surprising to me. it's almost too bad i can't convince myself that this is a trend that could hold into the future. i could become a bizzilionare. ~a
[2018-04-02 17:30:18] - paul/mig: nah. i think the president can have positive or negative effects on the market. the problem is proving the link. i'm fine looking at the overall correlation though, if you want. republican presidencies are correlated strongly with a poorly performing stock market (pick any time horizon you want). seriously, look at the numbers yourself. you'll be surprised how striking the difference is! ~a
[2018-04-02 15:36:17] - tariffs, heavy handed regulations, etc. - mig
[2018-04-02 15:36:03] - paul: i mean it makes sense. i don't see much that government actively does to actually stimulate the market positively, while there's a lot government can do that affects the market negatively. - mig
[2018-04-02 14:42:39] - a: I would submit that it's fair to give Trump a fair bit of blame for the recent market downturn, thanks to all his talk of tariffs (and actions regarding them) and his attacks on Amazon. -Paul
[2018-04-02 14:42:00] - a: It just occurred to me that a few months ago that we were discussing how much (if any) credit Trump should get for the market going up, and during that time I think we all agreed that most (or maybe all) of the time presidents don't deserve much (or any) credit. But we never discussed if they should get blame for when the market goes down. -Paul
[2018-04-02 11:59:11] - Paul: Think there are websites that have it. I'm not sure if its manually entered or if NBA has an api for it somewhere. I know it was a thing when they added SportsVU (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SportVU) camera's a couple of years ago because it made gathering this kind of stuff way easier. -Daniel
[2018-04-02 11:17:42] - a: Neat. Those types of shot charts for individual games are pretty common (both for individuals and teams) so it must be somebody's job to collect the data. -Paul
[2018-04-02 11:08:04] - kinda cool graph i thought you guys might like. i wonder how they captured the data though. ~a
[2018-04-02 10:37:58] - Sounds like now we get to find out how our individual stock portfolios do in a down environment.
-Paul[2018-04-01 18:22:53] - Total returns over almost 3 years: S&P 500 is 37.5%. Vanguard is 43.6%. Individual stocks up 58.3%. -Paul
[2018-04-01 18:21:05] - Btw, the first quarter of 2018 is over, so I have an update for my personal retirement fund tracking. S&P 500 was down 1.3%, but my Vanguard index funds were up 0.3%. Amazingly, my individual stocks were up 13.9%. -Paul
[2018-04-01 18:19:27] - a: Why am I supposed to know why the markets are closed for Good Friday?
-Paul[2018-03-30 10:05:49] - a: #resist. - mig
[2018-03-30 10:02:45] - there's a clock tower with a bell at the post office near(ish) to my house. i can barely hear it, but the thing that's weird is that this clock tower that is in hearing distance of thousands of people is wrong. they don't adjust it for daylight savings. it just rang nine times. i'm pretty sure they never fix it too. wtf why? ~a
[2018-03-30 10:01:02] - a: closed for good friday maybe? - mig
[2018-03-30 09:58:49] - paul: wth, why aren't the markets opened? i thought for a second we were looking at a second day of +1.3% in a row. ahh, good friday, wtf. i wondered why my (jewish) coworker thought today was a holiday. ~a
[2018-03-29 15:42:53] - a: Okay, like I said before, I'm willing to drop this. Feels weird that I've somehow worked myself into defending white supremacists, and I have no desire to waste more time on that. I concede.
-Paul[2018-03-29 15:03:37] - paul: 0<110. ~a
[2018-03-29 15:02:37] - paul: you argue we're "stressing out about another group which is less violent". you find the numbers
~a[2018-03-29 15:00:07] - paul: "I'm pretty sure I've been asking all the way through, because I don't know the numbers. There's that one driver who killed somebody, but has there been others?" they don't always assault people during their marches. it's often outside of the context of a march. and since 2014, it's around 110 people killed and injured
~a[2018-03-29 14:58:05] - a: 0<1? -Paul
[2018-03-29 14:56:23] - "why we don't hear more about antifa, considering they seem to be a much more explicitly violent group" because they don't actually kill as many people. ~a
[2018-03-29 14:52:37] - a: And yes, I understand there were probably PLENTY of examples from the 60s and 70s of horrible mobs of people, I'm more just thinking of something more timely and recent. I'm not trying to be an apologist for centuries of white supremacy or anything, just trying to get some perspective into how threatening they are now. -Paul
[2018-03-29 14:49:05] - a: Perfectly happy to be proven wrong. I just know there HAVE been mobs of antifa who have been violent. Have there been equivalent white supremacists mobs recently? -Paul
[2018-03-29 14:47:40] - a: I'm pretty sure I've been asking all the way through, because I don't know the numbers. There's that one driver who killed somebody, but has there been others? I don't know of any incidents involving large numbers of white supremacists from these recent marches who have assaulted people or vandalized stuff. -Paul
[2018-03-29 14:45:53] - Regardless, though, I'm happy to let this drop and just admit to being wrong or whatever. It seems like a silly and specific thing to argue about. Like I said, I wasn't really trying to make any sort of point, other than wondering why we don't hear more about antifa, considering they seem to be a much more explicitly violent group. -Paul
[2018-03-29 14:44:40] - Sure, yeah, the nazis were bad and killed a lot of people. Much worse than antifa. And yes, antifa as a group has killed less people than the entire group of "right wing terrorists". I'm trying to compare something that is a little more apples to apples and specific. -Paul
[2018-03-29 14:44:07] - paul: ok but you keep saying that one group is less violent than the other. but you have zero numbers to back that up. ~a
[2018-03-29 14:43:02] - aDaniel: Right, I think you both keep comparing the current antifa movement to basically the entirety of the right-wing movement... ever? I think I've said a few times that I'm basically looking at the last year or two (basically since the media started freaking out about white supremacists). -Paul
[2018-03-29 14:40:38] - *bite. ~a
[2018-03-29 14:40:12] - paul: "stressing out about another group which is less violent" do you have a source for this? antifa is about punching nazis, but their bark is bigger than their bight. white supremacists have a higher body count. just look at the numbers, man. ~a
[2018-03-29 14:07:41] - mig: I would agree that yelling about taxes and health care is better. -Daniel
[2018-03-29 13:44:57] - There's a very sharp difference in my mind between the people yelling about taxes and health care vs. the people with tiki torches chanting "blood and soil". - mig
[2018-03-29 13:42:40] - For the record, my point was about the Tea Party specifically, which I think stated fears of which have been a little overblown. - mig
[2018-03-29 13:36:41] - Paul: In the super limited context of a given protest / march I think maybe I could agree with what you are stating. Maybe. However in a large context I hope you understand that white supremacy as a movement is worse than antifa as a movement. -Daniel
[2018-03-29 13:26:33] - Daniel: How about this? If some white supremacists say they're doing a one time march in neighborhood A and antifa says they're doing a one time march in neighborhood B, I would say the insurance rates on neighborhood B should raise a little more than neighborhood A. -Paul
[2018-03-29 13:24:53] - Daniel: I dunno, it basically just started with me musing about the vagaries of what the media freaks out about. Wasn't necessarily intended to be more than that. Both seem like they should rank extremely low on the freak out scale, just maybe antifa a little higher. -Paul
[2018-03-29 13:23:47] - Daniel: Or, heck, people who celebrate after sports championships, if we're being tongue in cheek.
-Paul[2018-03-29 13:22:24] - Daniel: Like, on some level we shouldn't be worrying about either, because the numbers we're talking about are so small compared to much larger issues. But assuming we're trying to identify some small group that is worryingly violent, it seems like antifa fits the bill more than the white supremacists marches. -Paul
[2018-03-29 13:21:14] - Daniel: My point is that I'm wondering why the media seems to be (and I stress "seems", because I don't really have a lot of data to back this up) ignoring the more violent group that is antifa while stressing out about another group which is less violent. -Paul
[2018-03-29 13:18:44] - something? -Daniel
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