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[2000-08-11 15:30:00] - i am here ~a
[2000-08-11 15:29:00] - Aparna and Adrian must be gone
[2000-08-11 15:28:00] - It's pronounce Vretia. Which I agree is harder to pronounce than Chronos.
[2000-08-11 15:27:00] - ya whatever - ptobn
[2000-08-11 15:26:00] - It's actually a backwards too, it's a "ya" from the cyrillic alphabet.
[2000-08-11 15:26:00] - Same as Xpovos, it looks better in capitals so you can see the R is capitalized.
[2000-08-11 15:25:00] - It's even harder to pronounce than "xpovos", whatever it means. Was that your goal? - Aaron
[2000-08-11 15:25:00] - Ha ha. I'm sorry. What does bpemr mean anyways? - Aaron
[2000-08-11 15:24:00] - Evil Aaron. Boo. -BpemR
[2000-08-11 15:23:00] - I didn't think you'd actually say it again but I thought it was worth a try. - Aaron
[2000-08-11 15:23:00] - Ha ha ha ha. I tricked you....
I saw it was at 69 - Aaron[2000-08-11 15:22:00] - Gad! No! I blew it already. BpemR is at 70.
[2000-08-11 15:21:00] - ok: i'll rephrase, people are not weird, they're fucking loonies. -bpemr
[2000-08-11 15:21:00] - That's odd. He might not use <img size> tags in his tables, that's possible. Try IE I guess. - Aaron
[2000-08-11 15:19:00] - the page doesn't load in netscape ~a
[2000-08-11 15:19:00] - You can say that again
[2000-08-11 15:17:00] - I'll rephrase, people are not weird, they're fucking loonies. -BpemR
[2000-08-11 15:14:00] - "The doctors finally snapped. They went out with clipboards to watch pandas fuck and make stag movies about them. Let's be honest. That's insane."
[2000-08-11 15:07:00] - http://www.seanbaby.com/news/pandaporn.htm
[2000-08-11 15:05:00] - Did anybody else read the "Panda Porn" article on Seanbaby.com? That thing was funny
[2000-08-11 15:05:00] - People are weird.... -BpemR
[2000-08-11 15:04:00] - Very hard though! I've been working on this one puzzle alone for like 3 hours. I'm so dim. - Aaron
[2000-08-11 15:04:00] - http://www02.so-net.ne.jp/~kajitani/cgi-bin/pbn.cgi/index.html Java paint by numbers with user-submitted puzzles. Very very cool
[2000-08-11 15:03:00] - http://www.cnn.com/2000/NATURE/08/11/china.panda.reut/index.html
[2000-08-11 14:59:00] - http://www.cnn.com/2000/TECH/computing/08/11/fake.starwars/index.html
[2000-08-11 14:57:00] - Yeah but really really cool special effects. It possibly might almost be maybe barely worth seeing just for the special effects alone. - Aaron
[2000-08-11 14:56:00] - Hollow Man looks like a real bomber. -BpemR
[2000-08-11 14:55:00] - (hollow man advertised that it's the #1 movie in america right now) - Aaron
[2000-08-11 14:55:00] - Yawn. And there are no good movies out, if that advertisement for "Hollow Man" is telling the truth - Aaron
[2000-08-11 14:55:00] - http://washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A5683-2000Aug10.html
[2000-08-11 14:54:00] - we could watch paint dry; or grass grow ~a
[2000-08-11 14:53:00] - So we're still not on for anything fun today, correct?
[2000-08-11 14:52:00] - Monkeys can act like people do, at least in TV commercials - Aaron
[2000-08-11 14:51:00] - ot more which do not act as a man does. -BpemR
[2000-08-11 14:51:00] - I'm not going to go into that, but the mind is something more than the mere particles of grey matter, because there are animals with just as much if n
[2000-08-11 14:50:00] - And our mind is something, not our brain, which we can't see or touch... Like a soul? - Aaron
[2000-08-11 14:49:00] - Our actions are not governed by particles of the brain, they are governed by the mind.
[2000-08-11 14:48:00] - And our actions are governed by something other than our mind? - Aaron
[2000-08-11 14:47:00] - It has nothing to do with the internal particles, it has to do with your actions. -BpemR
[2000-08-11 14:46:00] - I suppose if man could predict the will of another man, and god couldn't, then god would look pretty silly - Aaron
[2000-08-11 14:46:00] - Or rather, can't be predicted at all, no matter what you're using or who you are... That's what I mean. - Aaron
[2000-08-11 14:45:00] - yes, that makes sense to me ~a
[2000-08-11 14:45:00] - aparna == the worst
[2000-08-11 14:45:00] - Right that's what I mean. Somehow, the molecules inside my brain do things which can't be predicted by science. - Aaron
[2000-08-11 14:44:00] - depends on when you went to it - i just finished writing the line of unix code - it counts repeated posts ~a
[2000-08-11 14:43:00] - maybe not the molecules - but something linked to them ~a
[2000-08-11 14:43:00] - Adrian, what does "bad posters" mean? -BpemR
[2000-08-11 14:41:00] - No, your brain is always uinder theeffects of gravity, and you can't decide to go out into space and not havve your brain hemorrage.- BpermR
[2000-08-11 14:40:00] - I thought free will meant that somehow the molecules inside my brain don't follow the laws which govern our universe?
[2000-08-11 14:37:00] - No, free will does not equate to random. -BpemR
[2000-08-11 14:35:00] - Well, if you believe in free will, then everything is random. - Aaron
[2000-08-11 14:34:00] - I'm a Catholic, and hence I'm sort of obligated to believe that nothing is random... but... there's a lot of random out there -BpemR
[2000-08-11 14:32:00] - One could argue that nothing is random (assuming you're an atheist) and that everything has an order to it.
[2000-08-11 14:31:00] - Well he really really likes stratego, and he's pretty good at it. So I can see how he might be offended if we thought there was luck in it - Aaron
[2000-08-11 14:31:00] - Life is Random.
[2000-08-11 14:29:00] - that's the utter stupidity of it. all over a boardgame. -dave
[2000-08-11 14:28:00] - I think we offended paul somehow, and at the same time, I've no idea what we're talking about -BpemR
[2000-08-11 14:28:00] - http://www.geocities.com/bamf/
[2000-08-11 14:27:00] - "little pwagmattasquarmsettport"
[2000-08-11 14:27:00] - aptly put -dave
[2000-08-11 14:26:00] - Sheboygan, WI
[2000-08-11 14:26:00] - Um, I'm really lost now. -BpemR
[2000-08-11 14:24:00] - republicanitarian....wow, what a mouthful -dave
[2000-08-11 14:24:00] - Paul! Get on AIM!
[2000-08-11 14:23:00] - Yeah suddenly I want to be a republicanitarian republican now - Aaron
[2000-08-11 14:23:00] - fine, if no one wants to actually debate me instead of insult me I shall take my leave -Paul
[2000-08-11 14:23:00] - If luck exists in anything at all, then it exists in stratego. Like Xpovos says. - Aaron
[2000-08-11 14:22:00] - paul, i strongly suggest you drop this topic. every sentence you utter is lowering people's respect for your views. -dave
[2000-08-11 14:22:00] - Either Battleship is 100% luck, or Battleship is 100% non-luck -BpemR
[2000-08-11 14:22:00] - pocatello is a cool name for a city (it's in idaho)
[2000-08-11 14:22:00] - Not unpredicatable and it does have an assignable cause -Paul
[2000-08-11 14:21:00] - We were all shouting at you because Stratego has luck because it has an unknown and unpredictable element!
[2000-08-11 14:20:00] - Unknown? Whose point exactly are you trying to prove here, Paul?
[2000-08-11 14:20:00] - Chance: The unknown and unpredictable element in happenings that seems to have no assignable cause -Paul
[2000-08-11 14:20:00] - moomoo
[2000-08-11 14:19:00] - Luck: The chance happening of fortunate or adverse events -Paul
[2000-08-11 14:19:00] - go aaron! let us know who wins! give us the play by play!
[2000-08-11 14:18:00] - Over aim!
[2000-08-11 14:18:00] - You guys have a messed up definition of luck.... -Paul
[2000-08-11 14:18:00] - Well maybe a little more, but over AIM as a convenience to those using this message board for smiley faces and bandaids - Aaron
[2000-08-11 14:17:00] - Then I have nothing more to say to you, good day
[2000-08-11 14:17:00] - Battleship doesn't have any luck -Paul
[2000-08-11 14:16:00] - Battleship is extremely similar to Stratego in that there are good strategies and bad strategies, but the best strategy can not overcome bad luck
[2000-08-11 14:16:00] - Attacking the person does not help you prove your point, I wish everyone on this board would realize this -Paul
[2000-08-11 14:15:00] - secret, you could argue that "Battleship" has absolutely no luck by your logic.
[2000-08-11 14:15:00] - You're extremely stubborn and immune to logic. I can't imagine how you can't see an element of logic in a game in which so much information is kept
[2000-08-11 14:14:00] - You just need to make reasonable moves based on information on hand -Paul
[2000-08-11 14:13:00] - it doesn't need to make the best move though because it's opponent is similarly handicapped -Paul
[2000-08-11 14:13:00] - So even the most powerful supercomputer would have to choose one move out of those 9 or 10 possible best moves, possibly the wrong one
[2000-08-11 14:12:00] - Depends on what the concealed information was.... -paul
[2000-08-11 14:12:00] - Because obviously there could be 9 or 10 best moves, based on what the opponent's pieces are, which it can't see or deduce logically
[2000-08-11 14:12:00] - Paul, a supercomputer could never deduce a solution in Stratego if there was concealed information
[2000-08-11 14:11:00] - nobody used to listen to vanilla ice?
[2000-08-11 14:11:00] - Using the same set-up every game is asking for someone to use that information to their advantage -Paul
[2000-08-11 14:11:00] - adn what pray tell is this invention? -dave
[2000-08-11 14:10:00] - Agreed, there is no luck in chess. But according to your arguement, there is... -Paul
[2000-08-11 14:10:00] - ice is back with his brand new invention
[2000-08-11 14:10:00] - alright stop, collaborate and listen
[2000-08-11 14:10:00] - vip?
[2000-08-11 14:10:00] - Besides, the sewtup itself is half the strategy -Paul
[2000-08-11 14:10:00] - yo vip
[2000-08-11 14:10:00] - Paul, chess can be solved. There is no concealed information, so you can feed a setup in to a supercomputer and deduce a solution- Aaron
[2000-08-11 14:10:00] - but paul, there is no optimal first move for each setup ~a
[2000-08-11 14:10:00] - Not necessarily, I am a firm believer in evolving my opening set-up -Paul
[2000-08-11 14:09:00] - paul, just drop it ok? -dave
[2000-08-11 14:09:00] - Guesswork should be done by analyzing data, not by chance -Paul
[2000-08-11 14:08:00] - If you didn't use any guesswork when playing stratego, then your opening setups would always be the same!
[2000-08-11 14:08:00] - But we all know chess has no luck (except maybe who goes first) -Paul
[2000-08-11 14:08:00] - Using your arguement, you could say that chess has luck because you could pick moves out of a hat -Paul
[2000-08-11 14:08:00] - you win....a big smack in the head! -dave
[2000-08-11 14:07:00] - The difference is that in one instance you are analyzing data and in the other you are acting randomly -Paul
[2000-08-11 14:07:00] - Introducing luck by altering my strategy based on guesswork, exactly. I know at least when I play stratego I do a lot of guesswork.
[2000-08-11 14:07:00] - i could make something to do that but i don't see why i would ~a
[2000-08-11 14:07:00] - paul-paul!
[2000-08-11 14:07:00] - Excellent, I win -Paul
[2000-08-11 14:06:00] - is there a way to ban people from the board adrian? lol! -dave
[2000-08-11 14:06:00] - thank you for explaining dave
[2000-08-11 14:06:00] - Then that would probably be introducing an element of luck into the game. But that would be introducing luck yourself -Paul -Paul
[2000-08-11 14:06:00] - I think we all accepted that a long, long time ago - Aaron
[2000-08-11 14:06:00] - ( |:::| ) is the virtual bandaid! -dave
[2000-08-11 14:05:00] - so let's all just accept that paul's definition is bonkers and leave it at that =) -dave
[2000-08-11 14:04:00] - Your argument makes no sense. Why does it matter if I pick numbers out of a hat or just think numbers up. You're insane.
[2000-08-11 14:04:00] - see paul, i think everyone is getting tired of your statements. fact of the matter is, your definition of luck is just different -dave
[2000-08-11 14:04:00] - Uh... I don't think so... ALl my lines were signed -Paul
[2000-08-11 14:04:00] - OK, Paul, if I pick numbers out of a hat to deduce where his pieces are then!
[2000-08-11 14:04:00] - Or roll a dice or something... guessing is based on analyzing the facts -Paul
[2000-08-11 14:03:00] - what is ( |:::| ) ?
[2000-08-11 14:03:00] - -dave
[2000-08-11 14:03:00] - heh, did you say all three of those lines paul?
[2000-08-11 14:03:00] - Guessing isn't luck unless you choose pieces out of a hat for your guessing -paul
[2000-08-11 14:03:00] - So how is this not luck?
[2000-08-11 14:03:00] - I give up, to Starcraft I go. -BpemR
[2000-08-11 14:02:00] - So based on whether I guess correctly, if we are equally good, I can beat him, or he can beat me
[2000-08-11 14:02:00] - ( |:::| )
[2000-08-11 14:02:00] - Also, there is a chance that I could guess wrong, and he would beat me.
[2000-08-11 14:02:00] - And there is a small (1/a zillion) chance that I could guess what all of his pieces are correctly, and then beat him.
[2000-08-11 14:02:00] - If you guess right they wouldgive you an advantage, otherwise it would probably give you a disadvantage -paul
[2000-08-11 14:01:00] - meow
[2000-08-11 14:01:00] - meow
[2000-08-11 14:01:00] - meow
[2000-08-11 14:01:00] - (!!)
[2000-08-11 14:01:00] - Guessing what they are could give you an advantage or it could not -Paul
[2000-08-11 14:01:00] - ><> <>< ><> <>< ><> <>< ><> <>< ><> <>< ><> <>< ><> <>< ><> <>< ><> <>< ><> <>< ><>
[2000-08-11 14:01:00] - <>< ><> <>< ><> <>< ><> <>< ><> <>< ><>
[2000-08-11 14:01:00] - meow
[2000-08-11 14:00:00] - most posts per minute yo
[2000-08-11 14:00:00] - If knowing what his pieces are gives me an advantage, then doesn't guessing what his pieces are give me an advantage as well?
[2000-08-11 14:00:00] - moomoo
[2000-08-11 14:00:00] - Paul, that's not my point...
[2000-08-11 14:00:00] - moomoo
[2000-08-11 14:00:00] - moomoo
[2000-08-11 14:00:00] - moomoo
[2000-08-11 14:00:00] - moomoo
[2000-08-11 13:59:00] - moomoo
[2000-08-11 13:59:00] - If you could see his pieces and he couldn't see yours? That's not how the game is played now is it? -Paul
[2000-08-11 13:59:00] - paul, who ever said luck had anything to do with winning? -dave
[2000-08-11 13:59:00] - no, usually (at least in chess) the person who is white (the person who goes first) is randomly chosen ~a
[2000-08-11 13:59:00] - My definition of luck was faulty, granted..... -Paul
[2000-08-11 13:59:00] - Imagine if I could see the computer side's pieces, couldn't I then set up my side so that I could beat him, assuming I was as good as him?
[2000-08-11 13:58:00] - Paul, you are wrong.
[2000-08-11 13:58:00] - switch sides and take that opening move as his own.
[2000-08-11 13:58:00] - Am I right? -Paul
[2000-08-11 13:58:00] - moomoo
[2000-08-11 13:58:00] - Adrian - Generally for games like checkers where that is a factor, one player makes an opening move, then the other player can decide if he wants to
[2000-08-11 13:58:00] - if luck is something that you do not have control over (you do not have control over where he puts his pieces) then there is luck -dave
[2000-08-11 13:58:00] - How about this? A computer AI could be designed which would win at Stratego all the time no matter what the opposing person's set-up -Paul
[2000-08-11 13:57:00] - paul, your obstinance is making you sound foolish. by your own definition, there is luck involved in stratego-dave
[2000-08-11 13:57:00] - what about the luck involved is deciding who goes first? (i know it is negligable) ~a
[2000-08-11 13:56:00] - derived through logic
[2000-08-11 13:56:00] - The luck in Stratego comes from the fact that there is information which is not revealed to the player at the beginning of the game, which can not be
[2000-08-11 13:56:00] - Just because you don't know where his flag is doesn't mean there is luck involved... -Paul
[2000-08-11 13:56:00] - "i need to learn how to keep my mouth shut"?
[2000-08-11 13:56:00] - Checkers has no luck. There is no information concealed from either player
[2000-08-11 13:56:00] - I disagree, there is absolutely no luck in stratego... -Paul
[2000-08-11 13:56:00] - checkers? the same . . . the only luck involved is deciding who goes first ~a
[2000-08-11 13:55:00] - I need to learn how to keep my mouth shut. -BpemR
[2000-08-11 13:55:00] - different games have different amounts, but stratego definitely has its share -dave
[2000-08-11 13:55:00] - Why is it no fun to play more then one game of Stratego? -Paul
[2000-08-11 13:55:00] - agreed ~a
[2000-08-11 13:55:00] - How about checkers? -Paul
[2000-08-11 13:55:00] - that's it ~a
[2000-08-11 13:55:00] - paul, nobody is saying that there isn't skill involved in playing statego. the point is that there is also luck -dave
[2000-08-11 13:55:00] - i suppose who goes first ~a
[2000-08-11 13:55:00] - diplomacy has a huge luck element in it in certain situations
[2000-08-11 13:54:00] - no. not chess ~a
[2000-08-11 13:54:00] - yes, all games have some sort of luck element in them.
[2000-08-11 13:54:00] - there's not much fun in playing the game more than once.
[2000-08-11 13:54:00] - In stratego, the better player should always win unless he makes a mistake -Paul
[2000-08-11 13:53:00] - and that's where the luck comes in -dave
[2000-08-11 13:53:00] - 99.999999999999999999% of the time the game isn't decided in the first move.... -Paul
[2000-08-11 13:53:00] - Almost all good games have some luck. If a game has no luck, the better player always wins. And if the better player always wins, well,
[2000-08-11 13:53:00] - nobody said it wasn't important. but you do not have any control over where he puts his forces -dave
[2000-08-11 13:53:00] - True.... What's your point? -Paul
[2000-08-11 13:52:00] - ?
[2000-08-11 13:52:00] - No, but you have control over how to distribute your forces and that is just as important -Paul
[2000-08-11 13:52:00] - our cool.
[2000-08-11 13:52:00] - drugs are good, they make you do things you not should. and when you do them people think that you're cool. and when you do them people think that y
[2000-08-11 13:52:00] - Paul, when you advance and make your very first attack in stratego, there is no way of knowing if you will win or lose!
[2000-08-11 13:51:00] - ok, andrew isn't on crack; just paul ~a
[2000-08-11 13:49:00] - no control over? you don't have any control over where he puts his flag do you? -dave
[2000-08-11 13:49:00] - Hey! I admit to there being -some- luck in Stratego. But I also insist there is some luck in all games, even chess! -BpemR
[2000-08-11 13:49:00] - What evidence? I have yet to see any evidence against me.... -Paul
[2000-08-11 13:49:00] - i wish i could spell
~a[2000-08-11 13:48:00] - if you want to say that you should strategize which side he will put it on, then you can just as well say the same things for the curtains -dave
[2000-08-11 13:48:00] - Sides don't matter. -BpemR
[2000-08-11 13:48:00] - You can place your spy in the middle.... I consider luck to be something that you have no control over.... -Paul
[2000-08-11 13:48:00] - paul and andrew are on crack . . . there is soo much evidence against ya ~a
[2000-08-11 13:48:00] - then that's what it comes down to. Who is able to guess the other player's setup better.
[2000-08-11 13:48:00] - And in stratego, there is luck because there is no way of knowing which side of their board contains the flag... And if both players are competent,
[2000-08-11 13:48:00] - Wow, I never thought Stratego would bring about such a heated debate. -BpemR
[2000-08-11 13:48:00] - but you have no way of knowing which side your opponent will put his flag on -dave
[2000-08-11 13:48:00] - i think stratego has luck involved too. -dave
[2000-08-11 13:47:00] - That is luck because there is no way of knowing which curtain contains the prize and no way of getting more then one curtain to choose -Paul
[2000-08-11 13:47:00] - and stratego has tons of strategy and tons of luck involved ~a
[2000-08-11 13:47:00] - side of the board their sergeant is on, then you can let them take one of the pieces next to it, and kill their sergeant. That's one example of luck.
[2000-08-11 13:47:00] - hehehe, because IE is weird huh? -dave
[2000-08-11 13:47:00] - you guys are weird
[2000-08-11 13:47:00] - Then it's very difficult (usually impossible) to move your spy into position to attack their sergeant. However if you're lucky, and can guess on which
[2000-08-11 13:46:00] - hahaha. it does have strategy; but there is tons of luck involved ~a
[2000-08-11 13:46:00] - well what do you consider luck paul? -dave
[2000-08-11 13:46:00] - Paul, you have to put your "Spy" on one side of the board or the other. If your spy is on the opposite side of the board as their "sergeant" ...
[2000-08-11 13:46:00] - they don't let me use netscape because they use an active x database that is optimized for ie and makes netscape crash because ie is weird. - aba
[2000-08-11 13:46:00] - yes! aaron has many good points ~a
[2000-08-11 13:46:00] - Rock paper scissors actually has strategy to it... -Paul
[2000-08-11 13:45:00] - At the end of Let's Make A Deal, there's 3 curtains, and you have to guess which one the prize is behind. - Aaron
[2000-08-11 13:45:00] - flag is on a certain side of the board -Paul
[2000-08-11 13:45:00] - That doesn't really indicate luck in my book, it indicates an inflexible strategy... you should never plan a strategy around the thinking that his
[2000-08-11 13:45:00] - i agree with aaron's first point but fail to see how the second one relates ~a
[2000-08-11 13:44:00] - No, that's strategy, the strategy of your opponant. There are strategies in chess too. -BpemR
[2000-08-11 13:44:00] - By your logic you could argue that there's absolutely no luck in rock paper scissors, or on the TV show, "Let's make a deal" - Aaron
[2000-08-11 13:43:00] - If your strong pieces are on the opposite side of your opponent's flag, then it's much much harder to win - Aaron
[2000-08-11 13:43:00] - The luck comes from the fact that there are multiple initial setups, and there's no way to know for sure what side your opponent's flag is on. - Aaron
[2000-08-11 13:43:00] - I don't see how not knowing your opponent's moves/pieces equates into luck.... -Paul
[2000-08-11 13:42:00] - Paul - There IS luck in stratego. I don't know what you're talking about. - Aaron
[2000-08-11 13:42:00] - wow, why don't they allow you to use netscape? -dave
[2000-08-11 13:41:00] - i use ie from him, and netscape at work (netscape doesn't work at him
) ~a[2000-08-11 13:41:00] - Abalone and Y have no luck, either, just for the record - Aaron
[2000-08-11 13:40:00] - but then (in those cases) both games would suck a lot ~a
[2000-08-11 13:40:00] - i use netscape from him, and ie at work (because i am not allowed to use netscape
) - aba[2000-08-11 13:40:00] - or you were able to see which pieces were where in stratego, then there would be no luck involved ~a
[2000-08-11 13:39:00] - if you were to be able to see all of your opponents moves before hand in diplomacy
[2000-08-11 13:39:00] - There is no luck in Diplomacy and Stratego.... Where does the luck come from? -Paul
[2000-08-11 13:38:00] - What do you mean there is luck in deciding who you will play? Do you choose who you will play based on a dice roll or something? -Paul
[2000-08-11 13:38:00] - in stratego and diplomacy there is a lot of luck (no dice though) in chess, there is none ~a
[2000-08-11 13:37:00] - There's luck in deciding who you'll play, often enough. -BpremR
[2000-08-11 13:37:00] - There's no luck in Stratego and diplomacy. Luck is only really a factor when a dice or cards are used... -Paul
[2000-08-11 13:37:00] - ~a
[2000-08-11 13:36:00] - chess = no luck
[2000-08-11 13:36:00] - There is luck in almost any game, but Stratego has far less than most board games. -BpemR
[2000-08-11 13:35:00] - Stratego has a lot of strategy to it as well as memorization. I don't see how luck factors in.... -Paul
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