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[2010-07-08 15:42:50] - a: Ok, so we should arm the forum moderators. I like that idea much better.
-Paul[2010-07-08 15:42:27] - Stephen: Well, I think it's because they're forcing everybody else to post using their real names and it would be somewhat hypocritical of them to allow the moderators to continue using aliases. At least, that's what I assume the rationale is. -Paul
[2010-07-08 15:42:09] - cops generally have off-duty weapons.
~a[2010-07-08 15:41:32] - a: I'm not sure I understand your point. Teachers and principles should be required to give out their real names... because they are already required to? -Paul
[2010-07-08 15:40:47] - Oh, and cops especially should DEFINITELY have aliases. -Paul
[2010-07-08 15:40:27] - Paul: I have no idea. I'm just not sure what Blizzard gains by releasing the names of its forum moderators. - Stephen
[2010-07-08 15:39:51] - except teachers and principles are required to give out their real names. calculated risk, like gurkie said. ~a
[2010-07-08 15:37:45] - Stephen: The question is: would they do that more so than other professions? It sounds like using that logic, our teachers a principles shouldn't be giving out their real names either. -Paul
[2010-07-08 15:36:41] - a: If my address is anywhere online, I don't think it's by my own doing. I wouldn't be surprised at all if there were some government websites that would let you find out where I lived using tax documents or something. -Paul
[2010-07-08 15:35:45] - Paul: I don't think they'd kill forum moderators. Egg their houses, decapitate their mailboxes, that sort of stuff...yes, I think people on WoW forums would do that to Blizzard employees. - Stephen
[2010-07-08 15:35:42] - paul: s/kill/harass/ ~a
[2010-07-08 15:35:21] - Gurkie: Ok, so are you saying that if your profession doesn't need credibility (I am assuming you consider video games to fall into that category), then people should give aliases instead of their real name to be safe? -Paul
[2010-07-08 15:32:34] - Stephen: Just so I understand you correctly, are you saying you think that WoW players are more violent than the average person? They can't be trusted with knowing the real names of the people they play with or else they might kill them? -Paul
[2010-07-08 15:31:13] - mig: To me, it seems similar to the gun control argument, that guns have to be banned because it'll make it easier for people to kill others in heated arguments. -Paul
[2010-07-08 15:30:34] - paul: their workplace address? i don't see a problem with that i guess since their situation warrants it. your situation doesn't warrant having your address online and i can't seem to find it anywhere. ~a
[2010-07-08 15:28:41] - Paul: In general Doctors and Realtors need some credibility and you work with them in person, it is considered odd to not give your name to someone you are meeting in person. I think its a calculated risk for the professions, its necessary. ~gurkie
[2010-07-08 15:28:20] - mig: Maybe. I just find it hard to believe that there are people out there who desperately want to kill a blizzard forum moderator and they would if only they knew his/her real name. -Paul
[2010-07-08 15:27:52] - Paul: I was being serious. You're probably right that there's been more criminal activity over real estate deals, but I can't exactly go out looking to commit a criminal act against Zarhym or Gorgonzola, can I? - Stephen
[2010-07-08 15:26:20] - a: Fair enough, but Blizzard isn't requiring them to post with their home addresses, right? If they're as worried about their privacy as your parents are, shouldn't their addresses not be on the internet anyway? -Paul
[2010-07-08 15:21:55] - paul: i would argue that you will see an increase if this real ID change goes through. A lot of people are already bringing up shooting incidents that have happened in S. Korea over Starcraft "feuds". - mig
[2010-07-08 15:21:50] - paul: keep your full name off the internet. if your situation disallows that: keep your address off the internet. if your situation disallows that: hopefully nobody has it out for you. ~a
[2010-07-08 15:21:19] - paul: i think you hit the nail on the head. those aren't their home addresses. i know that my parents aren't listed in the phone book because their full names are known by lots of their patients/various inmates of jails and detention facilities. ~a
[2010-07-08 15:20:55] - mig: I'm not denying that people might get angry at the forum moderators and developers. I'm just wondering how it's any different from any other profession. You're telling me people don't get mad at lawyers for losing cases or doctors for misdiagnosing or overcharging? -Paul
[2010-07-08 15:19:55] - Stephen: Not sure if you were being serious or not, but I'm not sure I buy that line of reasoning without stats to back it up. I'm guessing there have been a lot more criminal activity over real estate deals gone bad than over WoW forum arguments. -Paul
[2010-07-08 15:18:40] - I should start advertising legal services as HoneyBunny8989. It's probably an ethics violation, but it could be fun. - Stephen
[2010-07-08 15:16:24] - mig: Ok, then how is putting their real names out there any more dangerous than what most other professions do? It's not like my dentist is Zoltar and my banker is HoneyBunny8989 and I'm not allowed to know their names. -Paul
[2010-07-08 15:16:07] - they had the capability to do so. - mig
[2010-07-08 15:15:59] - paul: These guys get verbally abused to no end on the wow forums. Moreover, the developers do more than simply moderate the forums. They lay out design changes, explain why they make decisions they do, and when the decisions are unpopular, it generates untold amounts of anger. And believe me, a lot of these people would come up with some more personal forms of abuse if
[2010-07-08 15:14:39] - Paul: Maybe because your average Blizzard consumer is way more tech savvy and prone to emo outbursts than your typical home buyer? - Stephen
[2010-07-08 15:12:09] - paul: i don't really see how revealing the names of their employees translates into them getting more business for me (or anyone else for that matter). If they want more business, they market their products for that. - mig
[2010-07-08 15:09:55] - mig: How is it not comparable? Are you saying Blizzard doesn't want your business? -Paul
[2010-07-08 15:09:29] - Honestly, I can think of many more reasons why I would get pissed off at my doctor or realtor as opposed to a forum moderator. -Paul
[2010-07-08 15:09:02] - paul: no but they probably would appreciate my business so that's why their info is out there. again, these are not comparable situations. - mig
[2010-07-08 15:08:48] - mig: Why is it ok for the majority of professions to let random people on the internet know their name (and often much more) but it's dangerous for game developers to moderate forums with their real names? -Paul
[2010-07-08 15:07:06] - mig: I'm guessing none of you guys have met either my realtor or doctor professionally, but their info is very easily accessible on the internet and I don't think either of them thinks it's this hugely dangerous thing. -Paul
[2010-07-08 15:06:08] - mig: It took me like a total of a minute to find the address and phone number (for work and not home, granted) for the first two people I thought of. -Paul
[2010-07-08 15:05:12] - http://www.healthgrades.com/directory_search/physician/profiles/dr-md-reports/dr-emigdio-lopez-md-1fb047d4/office-locations Here's information for my doctor. -Paul
[2010-07-08 15:05:04] - mig: I'm not just talking about us. <a href="http://www.premiervirginiahomes.com/contact-rick-davis")This</a> is all the contact information for my realtor. -Paul
[2010-07-08 15:03:37] - paul: it's probably not a big deal for you personally or for me either. But for others, like the developers of the game (who make decisions that generally generate strong reactions from the community), and females, it is a big fucking deal. - mig
[2010-07-08 15:01:05] - this message board being one of the exceptions
~a[2010-07-08 15:00:28] - paul: i'm with miguel. with every type of contact-information i'm highly critical of who i'm giving it to. my real name can be on a business card, but rarely do i put it on the open internet. ~a
[2010-07-08 14:51:27] - paul: people we meet with professionally != random people on the internet. Again, you're comparing situations that are not comparable. - mig
[2010-07-08 14:47:24] - Gurkie: I guess my point was more that in most jobs, we don't think twice about giving people our names and more information. I'm not sure why it suddenly becomes such a "dangerous" activity when done on a gaming forum. -Paul
[2010-07-08 14:43:35] - if the mitt was lying on the field, the umpire would probably call time and have it removed from the field before the game would continue. - mig
[2010-07-08 14:42:52] - a: if the mitt was just lying on the field, no. If it was attached to a human hand, yes. - mig
[2010-07-08 14:40:33] - gurkie: i don't give my cell out to anyone except a few coworkers. usually i'd prefer people contact me via email or my desk phone so if i'm out of the office i'm not bothered. ~a
[2010-07-08 14:38:37] - I am sure you will all correct me if I am wrong but your business card has your corporate address/phone number not your home address/phone number. Yes the people can still most likely find it but its not explicitly spelled out. Generally if I give my business card out its to people I am also working with daily and giving my cell number too.. ~gurkie
[2010-07-08 14:37:52] - mig: i'm pretty sure i know the answer to this, but if the mitt had been on the field, it still wouldn't have been a fly out, right? ~a
[2010-07-08 14:23:46] - http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/blog/big_league_stew/post/Mike-Stanton-homer-reaches-bullpen-lands-in-cat;_ylt=Ak8Te0ztkdd3E8P_bJeWDqERvLYF?urn=mlb,254506 home run is caught by a catcher's mitt ... that's lying on the ground. - mig
[2010-07-08 14:23:41] - paul: amir's the one who orchestrated that prank and he does almost all of the talking in that one - aaron
[2010-07-08 14:23:18] - paul: when you get some free time with some speakers you should check out yankee prankee. it's about 6 minutes but it's feels like 20 minutes, it's so painful - aaron
[2010-07-08 14:08:05] - Aaron: Sweet. I'm pretty sure I have a pretty good credit score. I was worried since I couldn't get anybody to get back to me when I was thinking of refinancing a year ago or so. -Paul
[2010-07-08 14:05:15] - Nina: I don't know who Amir is, unfortunately. -Paul
[2010-07-08 13:50:50] - aaron: They forgot the mac & cheese on the pizza. - Stephen
[2010-07-08 13:31:46] - http://pbh3.tumblr.com/post/765986739/america-fuck-yeah-food-edition mmmm toppings - aaron
[2010-07-08 13:26:26] - nina: oh cool i liked amir in the prank war series. - aaron
[2010-07-08 13:25:22] - paul: i didn't have any trouble qualifying but i was in the 720+ crowd - aaron
[2010-07-08 12:58:42] - Paul: Amir from College Humor is going to be in it, too. -nina
[2010-07-08 12:52:30] - http://movies.ign.com/articles/110/1104628p1.html Harold and Kumar 3 is filming. -Paul
[2010-07-08 12:46:04] - Paul: The people with trouble qualifying are typically the 680-710 credit score range who had zero trouble before. (Below 680 always had some trouble, or a lot, depending on how far below 680). 720+ doesn't seem to be having any trouble at all, from what I've seen. -- Xpovos
[2010-07-08 12:21:56] - a: I don't know what suggestions you would be looking for. According to the calculators I've used, I could reduce my monthly payment by a couple of hundred dollars. -Paul
[2010-07-08 12:20:20] - aaron: Cool, did you have any trouble qualifying for refinancing? I've heard it can be hard to qualify right now. -Paul
[2010-07-08 12:19:34] - Xpovos: Fair enough, although if I understand things correctly, we're still only talking about having people's names appear. I don't see how that's much different from knowing your banker's name or an IRS agent's name. -Paul
[2010-07-08 12:02:05] - Xpovos: I'm at 5.625% and I've been in my house for 2.5 years, so I feel like I'm on the borderline. If I can find a 4.5% rate in the next few months, I think I'll have to give it a try. -Paul
[2010-07-08 12:00:38] - Paul: I've had business cards at every job, and I distribute them widely, but still, they're being distributed to people I meet in person. Not people I interact with online and for whom I make critical decisions. Or at least when I do make the critical decisions they generally don't know it was me who made the decision. There's plausible deniability. -- Xpovos
[2010-07-08 11:53:31] - Stephen: One is going for $328k (which seems low even though it's an interior unit not near the lake) and the other two are $400k. -Paul
[2010-07-08 11:50:00] - Xpovos: I've had business cards in previous jobs and I'm far from a corporate bigwig. There's plenty of other occupations that are far from bigwigs (who don't have personal security) that have business cards as well. -Paul
[2010-07-08 11:46:43] - mig: I'm not saying it definitely won't happen, but I don't think that simply having that information out there in the open is going to drastically increase instances of stalking/assault whatever. -Paul
[2010-07-08 11:45:41] - mig: Sure, business cards are a little different than putting the info in a video game forum, but it doesn't seem fair to assume that just because somebody knows where you live, that they're going to find you and attack you. -Paul
[2010-07-08 11:37:16] - a: I'm not sure there are many suggestions to be made outside of math. I guess there's the question of cash-out or straight refinancing (if cash-out is even an option anymore), plus whether you refinance to a new 30, to a new 15, or try to keep your pay-off timeline the same but lower your payments through the interest rate. -- Xpovos
[2010-07-08 11:35:12] - paul: i'm thinking of refinancing but i haven't thought it through. any suggestions? i'll likely do the math to be sure i'm saving money, so any suggestions unrelated to math would be cool. ~a
[2010-07-08 11:28:07] - mig: there are a few null titles. (you can unset the title, and it gets listed as an empty title). ~a
[2010-07-08 11:21:08] - paul: Wells Fargo helped me refinance; it was weird. They already had my loan anyways. But they offered to cover all of my closing costs and made it really easy. I switched from an interest-only loan to a non-interest-only-loan, i'm paying about $100 extra a month only now some of that's going towards principal and it won't balloon in 8 years - aaron
[2010-07-08 11:14:38] - Paul: I'm already at 4.5%. I don't think I'll be refinancing. Ever. But if in a few years we've hit a deflationary spiral and rates are down in the 2s, I'll have to consider it. But I think I need at least three years to make it worthwhile. -- Xpovos
[2010-07-08 11:14:03] - Paul: How much are they listed for? - Stephen
[2010-07-08 11:13:24] - And at least the bigwigs are getting paid proportionately to the risk. They could hire security if they wanted, etc. Mods can't. -- Xpovos
[2010-07-08 11:12:01] - Paul: Corporate bigwigs are well known, and business cards are generally given to individuals you meet face-to-face. Making this information so public to anyone for even lowly employees, particularly ones with power and authority in maintaining the forums means that a single decision that is controversial will result in a disproportionate pain. -- Xpovos
[2010-07-08 11:07:27] - It's more like getting all the cons of becoming a public figure, without any of the benefits. - mig
[2010-07-08 11:06:01] - business cards and revealing your real name to an entire internet community is in no way shape or form comparable. - mig
[2010-07-08 10:58:21] - paul: i don't think so, especially when you're talking about a potentially rabid stalker internet community here. - mig
[2010-07-08 10:56:36] - mig: It would seem that going by that rationale, business cards are even more dangerous because they already contain phone and address information in addition to names. -Paul
[2010-07-08 10:54:08] - mig: Isn't it overstating things a bit to say that they're putting their employees in "that much danger"? They're putting their real names out there, which is something that employees in most businesses do all the time. -Paul
[2010-07-08 10:51:35] - no sub title today? - mig
[2010-07-08 10:51:29] - And for those who don't own, there are three houses for sale in my neighborhood if you're looking.
-Paul[2010-07-08 10:50:53] - xpovos: If they're that intent on putting their employees in that much danger ... I don't know what to say. - mig
[2010-07-08 10:50:21] - Any homeowners here thinking about refinancing? Rates are pretty low right now, and I'm tempted even though I spent a lot of money buying points on my original loan. -Paul
[2010-07-08 10:11:35] - a: i did this morning. - mig
[2010-07-08 10:10:23] - mig: can you login? ~a
[2010-07-08 10:00:28] - Aaron: A surprisingly not terrible turn for me. The end result of me getting a build (in Kiel no less!), you having to disband and Turkey getting Budapest is win-win-win for me, despite the French army in Ruhr. -Paul
[2010-07-08 09:52:49] - go ruhr! - aaron
[2010-07-08 09:49:16] - starcraft 2 beta is online again. - mig
[2010-07-08 08:32:17] - Diplomacy:
[2010-07-08 00:34:00] - Diplomacy:
[2010-07-07 21:44:01] - mig: New update on that page indicates they're still planning on it... -- Xpovos
[2010-07-07 20:56:55] - Hopefully this will get Blizzard to seriously reconsider this brain-dead policy. - mig
[2010-07-07 20:53:35] - http://www.wow.com/2010/07/07/rumor-blizzard-employees-real-life-names-will-not-appear-on-th/ according to this a blizzard poster posted under his real name and within 24 hours people posted a map to his house, his parent's name revealed, along with phone numbers. - mig
[2010-07-07 17:49:29] - a patch is up for the sc2 beta. the 2nd beta phase has NOT begun, but you'll probably want to fire up your client since it's a pretty big patch (500mb). - mig
[2010-07-07 13:06:59] - Daniel: I can't speak for anybody else, but the Austrian area appears to still be a mess for me. -Paul
[2010-07-07 13:05:06] - a: I saw the messages that the bubble thing wasn't working but I was still able to enter orders and toggle. Its not a biggie since the turn processes (hopefully correctly) tonight, it just seems odd to be on the last day and the only one toggled. -Daniel
[2010-07-07 13:02:44] - daniel: did you see the messages? the site is broken or something. ~a
[2010-07-07 12:57:25] - Did I miss something? Is there a reason I'm the only one toggled? Is not toggling the cool thing to do this turn? -Daniel
[2010-07-07 11:39:01] - barack
[2010-07-07 11:26:35] - aaron
[2010-07-07 11:19:46] - I only wrote one of those names... and it was Daniel ~gurkie
[2010-07-07 11:18:58] - adrian
[2010-07-07 11:18:51] - oops lost the name but I heard that if you like pickles its quite yummy... ~gurkie
[2010-07-07 11:18:31] - Daniel
[2010-07-07 11:18:14] - aaron: REALLY NO? I figured you and a were going to be my buddies and try it with me! ~gurkie
[2010-07-07 10:56:34] - i've heard pickel juice makes for great shots. ~a
[2010-07-07 10:49:25] - gurkie: no - aaron
[2010-07-07 10:45:51] - Gurkie: That sounds super gross! yuck -Daniel
[2010-07-07 10:41:32] - the firefox 4 beta is out. playing around with it right now, performance seems to have been really improved from 3.x - mig
[2010-07-07 10:25:42] - http://www.liquorsnob.com/archives/2010/02/pickle_back_shot_jamesons_and_pickle_juice.php ~gurkie
[2010-07-07 10:23:01] - new shot: for those of us crazy enough to try it... Shot of Jameson followed by a shot of Pickle Juice... apparently its called a pickle back and I heard rave reviews from some friends ~gurkie
[2010-07-07 07:48:29] - andrew: ha! bad timing. - aaron
[2010-07-06 20:05:59] - aaron: There was an Andrew Riley who made the news right around the time I was getting my security clearance. He was arraigned on something like 118 felony counts. And he was 13. - Andrew
[2010-07-06 17:47:55] - it seems like most people either don't care or hate the idea. nobody seems to love it, which makes me question whether blizz will actually end up implementing it. - aba
[2010-07-06 17:44:48] - paul: it's based on the name you used to sign up for your battlenet account. either you use your real name and retain control of your account forever or you use a fake name and gamble that you won't be able to retrieve it from blizzard if you get hacked (generally need to use proof of id). - aba
[2010-07-06 17:26:54] - Is there anything that says that you have to use your real name as your RealID? -Paul
[2010-07-06 17:14:00] - aba: heh heh. well there's nothing stopping other people from opening their own forums right? maybe some offsite forum will replace blizzard's official forums - aaron
[2010-07-06 17:11:12] - well, the change will apply to ALL blizzard games including starcraft and diablo. i think it will result in a loss of normal posts too like recruiting for teams/guilds or people wanting to trade items, etc. - aba
[2010-07-06 17:03:08] - aba: yeah i'm glad that over the past 10 years, there's been like 20-30 new aaron piepers on the internet. there's even an aaron pieper on deviant art and it's not me! plausible deniability ftw - aaron
[2010-07-06 17:01:44] - marp (the MAME arcade emulation competition site) used real names too, it wasn't that big a deal. but i think a lot of people go to WOW to, you know, role play and stuff. tying it to your real name kills a lot of the immersion. "miguel" isn't a very good orc name. too many vowels - aaron
[2010-07-06 17:00:15] - yea, the issue is people on the forum being able to obtain a lot of real life info about me (because i have a unique name) or potential future employers being able to find forum posts by me. while it will probably dissuade a lot of trolls from posting, it will probably kill off just as many constructive posts. - aba
[2010-07-06 16:56:43] - a: yeah, there's a lot of different ways to combat the problems introduced by anonymity. i've never heard of publicizing real names though. it would be shitty to be turned down by a potential employer because you're horde and they're alliance or something - aaron
[2010-07-06 16:33:21] - a: they do that already to an extent. You can already report abusive messages, and if it happens often enough the entire account will get banned (after getting temporary bans several times in between), so someone would actually have to purchase another wow account to be able to post again. - mig
[2010-07-06 16:31:13] - aaron: regarding trolls (and stalkers), they could do what wikis and various other websites/irc/etc do. trolls get their ips blocked. ~a
[2010-07-06 16:26:56] - I can already think of one right now. I'm sure all the female players will appreciate their real names being displayed on the forums for the benefit of cyber stalkers. - mig
[2010-07-06 16:26:43] - aaron: the alternative is requiring that people's thoughts are tied to their person forever. people are required to give up both their privacy and their anonymity until they die. i think they're both shitty situations. ~a
[2010-07-06 16:25:43] - aaron: that's correct. mostly. This however, will bring up many privacy issues. - mig
[2010-07-06 16:22:08] - aba: right now, i can make a user account called whatever i want, and troll the forums, and then when i become unpopular, just start a new character, right? but with this change, i wouldn't be able to do that anymore? i don't really play wow so i'm not sure how the forums work - aaron
[2010-07-06 16:15:29] - aba: why? ~a
[2010-07-06 16:11:48] - blizzard announced that the next version of their online forums will force posters to use the real name tied to their account instead of their in-game character name..... sounds like disaster to me. - aba
[2010-07-06 13:52:02] - http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/2010/jul/05/clay-shirky-internet-television-newspapers an article about the internet and its effect on society. the title implies it's about paywalls but it's not really - aaron
[2010-07-06 13:49:47] - vinnie: [[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lim_Yo-Hwan|Boxer]] is a terran player who pioneered a lot of terran strategies and new ways to use the dropship unit, as late as 2004-2006. so i think sometimes people come up with new stuff. i know he beat someone with an SCV rush in 2006 which was kind of unheard of. so there's some innovation/creativity but not very much - aaron
[2010-07-06 13:22:27] - has starcraft gotten to the point where the strategies are pretty well known, or do people still come up with new stuff? if the former, I could see apm being the decider - vinnie
[2010-07-06 12:48:41] - a: yeah, i guess the statement was that if you don't have 300 apm you can't be competitive. and likewise, if you have 300 apm... then you might be competitive. apm/tpm still seems like a good gauge to me, though. but you're right the quality of the "A" matters - aaron
[2010-07-06 12:31:43] - i think people put way too much stock in apm. yes the people who win pro competitions have 300 apm: that doesn't mean once you reach 300 apm you'll start winning pro competitions. work on your strategy first and foremost. ~a
[2010-07-06 12:25:05] - 300 works out to like 50 wpm, which is funny. and that's assuming every action is a keystroke. a lot of them involve mouse activity too. i remember there was a similar statistic for quadra (a suped up competitive version of tetris,) where in order to compete you had to drop at least like 150 blocks per minute. great players broke 200. my best was around 95-100 - aaron
[2010-07-06 12:11:27] - aaron: According to the video, 200 is the minimum to be competitive (professionally) but you really need 300 to win championships. -Paul
[2010-07-06 12:02:07] - paul: ahh the article answered my question. 300 is a minimum. that makes sense - aaron
[2010-07-06 12:01:45] - paul: does that imply that someone who can do 600 actions per minute won't have a distinct advantage? i suspect 300 is just... nobody can go faster than that right now or something - aaron
[2010-07-06 11:50:21] - I watched the video and I can't figure out what they hell they are doing most of the time when hitting all those keys and controlling their units. -Paul
[2010-07-06 11:49:30] - http://arstechnica.com/gaming/news/2010/07/excellence-of-execution-video-of-starcraft-mastery.ars?comments=1#comments-bar A lot of you have probably seen things like this before, but mastering Starcraft apparently requires being able to do 300 actions per minute. -Paul
[2010-07-05 01:28:26] - vinnie: ah okay - aaron
[2010-07-03 11:57:55] - aaron: also the No Doubt song I was struggling to remember yesterday was Ex-Girlfriend - vinnie
[2010-07-03 11:57:15] - apparently someone was decapitated by the Galaxie coaster at KD, not the King Kobra. and I think I was totally wrong about someone dying on Sky Pilot, can't find any information about that - vinnie
[2010-07-02 13:07:19] - http://g.sports.yahoo.com/soccer/world-cup/blog/dirty-tackle/post/This-man-is-very-excited-about-Brazil?urn=sow,253179 warning, scary images ahead. - mig
[2010-07-02 12:07:49] - Paul: honestly I thought you were going to tell me I said it was in Central America I dont remember having the debate... ~gurkie
[2010-07-02 11:54:06] - Go Netherlands! - Stephen
[2010-07-02 11:37:01] - Gurkie: Well, it also mentions that Mexico is often included as well. -Paul
[2010-07-02 11:28:54] - hehe well good, according to wiki its part of North America rather than Central America... ~gurkie
[2010-07-02 11:25:09] - Gurkie: I thought you said it wasn't. -Paul
[2010-07-02 11:19:20] - paul: possibly what side do you think I was on? ~gurkie
[2010-07-02 11:15:55] - Gurkie: Didn't we have some sort of debate over whether Mexico was in Central America? -Paul
[2010-07-02 11:02:58] - gurkie: Mexico is technically south of "America". So, he's right. America! Fuck Yeah! -nina
[2010-07-02 11:00:56] - when we were acquired the red hat guy said something about having a lot of south american locations including mexico... ~gurkie
[2010-07-02 10:40:49] - Mig: that's just sad. . . -nina
[2010-07-02 10:33:12] - mig: Hahaha, nice. Very subtle too, especially since there are a lot of South American teams left right now so it could make sense to show South America up there. -Paul
[2010-07-02 10:19:01] - http://img.thedailywtf.com/images/mark/errord/070210/image001.jpg yet another example of typical american stupidity. - mig
[2010-07-02 09:12:02] - Xpovos: I have no idea if it would be more or less insulting (or the same), but if they had cast Asians as all the major roles, I wouldn't be surprised if at least one person thought, "This movie would've done better had we cast white actors". -Paul
[2010-07-02 09:12:01] - funny distraction for the day - http://catalogliving.tumblr.com/ -nina
[2010-07-01 17:42:23] - Does the fact that the cake is a bad cake improve situation, or does it just make the scandal (if any) worse? Would it be better if they had cast Asians, and the film had still sucked? We might see more residual racism there against future Asian actors. "Well, we tried, and it sucked, so never again." -- Xpovos
[2010-07-01 17:25:25] - gurkie: yeah i didn't get why they did that. unless maybe they had already cast one caucasian who looked perfect for the role and they wanted other people to look similar - aaron
[2010-07-01 17:02:14] - xpovos: creem cheese icing is the best! thats prolly the only time I eat all my icing
sorry paul ~gurkie[2010-07-01 17:01:46] - to me it isnt that they were willing to cast a caucasian as an asian so much as the casting sheet said "caucasian or others" which means they specifically were looking for caucasian... I would be more comfortable with the whole thing if they had left it blank rather than specifying caucasian or others... ~gurkie
[2010-07-01 17:01:02] - This is why I like carrot cake. And cream cheese icing. Yum! -- Xpovos
[2010-07-01 17:00:15] - in all seriousness though, I think its insulting that the casting sheet for roles that should be asian were primarily looking for caucasians. ~gurkie
[2010-07-01 16:59:36] - a: what kind of frosting does the vanilla and yellow cake swirl have? ~gurkie
[2010-07-01 16:53:30] - a: Yellow cake with chocolate frosting could work, but chocolate cake with yellow frosting is just plain insulting. -paul
[2010-07-01 16:51:58] - gurkie: what about a vanilla and yellow cake swirl? jebus, i want cake. ~a
[2010-07-01 16:50:56] - paul: wow, over 10 thousand times people have said "paul:". ~a
[2010-07-01 16:50:49] - a/paul: y'all are messing it up there isnt an issue with the yellow and the chocolate its the vanilla that scews it all up. stupid vanilla messing everything up. ~gurkie
[2010-07-01 16:49:03] - paul: i disagree. chocolate cake with yellow frosting is superior to yellow cake with chocolate frosting. ~a
[2010-07-01 16:47:38] - paul: in the background of picture #7 you can get a glimpse of what a person who builds this kind of thing must have in their house: a huge number of fairly large containers filled with blocks. ~a
[2010-07-01 16:45:50] - Vinnie: I only like yellow cake. No chocolate cake. Too inferior. -Paul
[2010-07-01 16:39:38] - paul: nice try steering the conversation away the issue of racism. it won't work, you racist! - vinnie
[2010-07-01 16:39:11] - stephen: yum cake! ~gurkie
[2010-07-01 16:35:39] - http://news.cnet.com/8301-17938_105-20009439-1.html?part=rss&subj=news&tag=2547-1_3-0-20 World of 'Futurama' rebuilt in Legos. Be sure to check out the pictures on the bottom. -Paul
[2010-07-01 16:24:05] - Paul: Now I want cake. Your analogy does suck
- Stephen[2010-07-01 16:19:14] - Stephen: But back on topic, I'm not saying MNS made good cake. You're probably right it was bad. I just don't think putting icing on bad cake will make it much better. Wait a second, of course it would. What am I saying? My analogy sucks. -Paul
[2010-07-01 16:17:58] - Stephen: And yet, tons of people love cake with no icing. In fact, I see lots of people just eat the cake and throw the icing out... I hate those people. -Paul
[2010-07-01 15:55:44] - Paul: To use your analogy, M. Night Shyamalan just served us bad cake with no icing. That is not my favorite dessert. - Stephen
[2010-07-01 15:51:57] - gurkie: the roles allegedly expressed preference for caucasians in the casting call. though I think the controversy probably would have happened even without that, we're talking the three main roles in this movie, not just one - vinnie
[2010-07-01 15:51:42] - a: So, you would be against Nacho Libre?
-Paul[2010-07-01 15:51:05] - amy: I think this is one of those things that a small group of people get really worked up over, but the vast majority just don't care about. Having the "correct" race might be nice, but I think most people consider that icing on the cake, where the cake is being able to effectively portray the character. -Paul
[2010-07-01 15:48:19] - on a completely different note did you know that the twilight series has the record for the all time best opening day??? As well as the best record for opening on a wednesday... I loved the books, but could barely stand the movies... yea I saw them though. (not the newest one yet) ~gurkie
[2010-07-01 15:47:58] - amy: I think that reinforces my point. There doesn't appear to be enough outrage over even blatant things like the Airbender movie, let alone all the movies where whites are the leads instead of minorities. -Paul
[2010-07-01 15:47:08] - nina: sorry, you lost me when you told me what i was and wasn't ignoring... all i said was blackface isn't a valid analogy for the current controversy - aaron
[2010-07-01 15:45:47] - representative ~gurkie
[2010-07-01 15:45:42] - if there was an asian kid who had the same skills then maybe they should have used him, although that gets into *if all else is equal should race be used to decide who gets the role* which in an ideal world I think the answer would be no. But this isnt an ideal world and if the character is supposed to represent a race then i think having someone of that race would be more
[2010-07-01 15:44:13] - while I feel like I am supposed to have a strong view point here I mostly feel apathetic about the whole thing. I guess I should probably read the article but I wonder if the white kid auditioned and had the skills they needed and they didnt see an asian kid with the same skills (isnt there martial arts involved?) then I dont necessarily have a problem with it ~gurkie
[2010-07-01 15:43:45] - paul: yes. i'm pretty sure we agree on this to a point. i think there are cases where an actor should not play a role. if it's a character that is particularly dumb or silly or stereotypical, then you'd probably have a better effect if you cast the actor in the race of the character. regardless, i think it's blown out of proportion. ~a
[2010-07-01 15:41:34] - a: There is discrimination based on age, but it is entirely different from discrimination and privilege based on race. Everybody is born young and most of us are eventually old - Michael Jackson aside, people rarely change what race they appear to be during their lifetimes. - Stephen
[2010-07-01 15:40:08] - Vinnie: Exactly. If they'd cast good, or well-known, white actors, the "we need a box office draw" would have made more sense. As it is, M. Night Shyamalan seems to have cast a bunch of white nobodies who, it turns out, can't act. - Stephen
[2010-07-01 15:37:22] - has the kid who plays the avatar even been in anything else? (wiki says no.) it just seemed like a stupid decision to cast an unknown white kid playing an asian, especially when they make him look like an asian! what's the point? I can see why people would quickly assume it's a racist thing - vinnie
[2010-07-01 15:36:36] - stephen: an old person isn't treated differently in society than someone younger? that's not what you're saying, right? i guess i don't understand. ~a
[2010-07-01 15:36:12] - i have to go to work. have a nice day guys. -amy
[2010-07-01 15:36:06] - ...the asian american community was hoping to make a change and make it more known that there is discrimination in hollywood. and i guess they failed because it sounds like not a lot of people care outside of the asian american community, and obv the casting did not get changed. -amy
[2010-07-01 15:35:06] - I probably shouldn't be adding to this clusterfuck, but what I think is really stupid is that the people that were cast weren't even people who were known. it's one thing to cast Tom Cruise over say Jet Li in a biopic about Bruce Lee. sure, there would be some backlash but ultimately Tom Cruise draws a ton more people. but in this?...
[2010-07-01 15:34:43] - and i guess that's the whole problem. if we as movie viewers keep feeding into hollywood's stereotyping that they can only sell movies by having white leads, it just perpetuates the cycle. that's why there were petitions an the asian american community and threats of boycotting the movie unless they changed the casting, back when they were casting the actors... -amy
[2010-07-01 15:34:13] - amy: movies in the united states, or movies in asia? ~a
[2010-07-01 15:30:50] - nina: I'm not saying they should. I'm saying that Hollywood wants to make money, and they want to appeal to as large an audience as possible. They probably think having white leads is the safest way to do that. Maybe it's dumb, maybe not. But I can understand the logic. -Paul
[2010-07-01 15:26:48] - a: sure. so how movies can you name where they specifically called for asian actors to play white characters? -amy
[2010-07-01 15:26:24] - Paul: so you're saying b/c whites make up 75% of this country, of course they should take all the acting roles as well? -nina
[2010-07-01 15:26:03] - a: I'm wondering if we might actually agree here. Do you think that it should be ok for a person of one race to play a person of any another race, past discrimination be damned? -Paul
[2010-07-01 15:23:24] - amy: I'm sure if that were the case, I would be annoyed, but I would like to think I would also be understanding. Were I a white actor living in Africa or India or China, I don't think I would expect to get many offers beyond "stereotypical white guy #1". -Paul
[2010-07-01 15:21:58] - a: Actually, Hollywood is constantly being criticized for discriminating against older actresses. Older actors, not so much...welcome to the double standard for men and women. - Stephen
[2010-07-01 15:21:01] - a: There's no such thing as old person privilege. You aren't born old and therefore treated differently in society than someone born young. Being born white is an automatic advantage in American society, even in 2010. - Stephen
[2010-07-01 15:20:05] - ...if they want an older or younger version of the actor (or if an actor is trying to play someone outside of their age), then they need to cast the correctly aged person as to avoid trampling those historical privileges. ~a
[2010-07-01 15:19:42] - stephen: yes i totally agree. and there's also historical discrimination of very old and very young people also. i think makeup artists shouldn't be allowed to change a person's age... ~a
[2010-07-01 15:17:10] - a: It's not symmetrical. There are a lot of issues of privilege and present and historical discrimination that make a white person playing a person of color a loaded gesture in many instances. - Stephen
[2010-07-01 15:15:42] - a: yeah, if we lived in a perfect world where everything is equal. unfortunately, that's not the reality of the situation. -nina
[2010-07-01 15:15:08] - amy: i doubt paul would feel differently. he sticks to his principles. ~a
[2010-07-01 15:13:46] - nina: it's more of a general thing for me. we use makeup to change people's age, race, and gender (rarely). i see nothing wrong with that. if a european wants to play an asian or an asian wants to play a european, they both seem symmetrical and perfectly fine in my eyes. really if a white dude wants to put on blackface, that should be fine too. ~a
[2010-07-01 15:12:13] - paul: maybe you'd feel differently if you were an asian american actor who wants to act in mainstream movies but can't even get an audition because they all call for caucasians (and sometimes blacks) -amy
[2010-07-01 15:06:52] - Paul: didn't rush hour feature a stereotypical sassy black cop and a stereotypical kung fu asian? not exactly what i'm talking about. -nina
[2010-07-01 15:05:35] - nina: Rush Hour was pretty mainstream, and featured two non-white guys in 1998. -Paul
[2010-07-01 15:04:38] - Historical characters might be a little different, but I still would see it more as stupidity or ignorance than insulting. -Paul
[2010-07-01 15:02:51] - I find it hard to get too worked up about the race of actors playing fictional characters. Sure, I would grumble pretty loudly if some white actor was cast to play Sulu in the new Star Trek movie, but I wouldn't really consider it insulting. Just a little silly. -Paul
[2010-07-01 14:54:08] - the thing that i personally find insulting is that they specifically looked for caucasian actors to play asian roles. if race were always interchangeable in movies and if asians frequently played whites in lead roles and so forth then it wouldn't be a double standard. -amy
[2010-07-01 14:53:35] - it's not b/c there aren't asian actors, it's because hollywood has a bad habit of doing things like they just did with airbender. -nina
[2010-07-01 14:53:04] - -nina
[2010-07-01 14:53:02] - now take into consideration 60+ years of Asian having a real presence in the US but never having a presence in hollywood
[2010-07-01 14:52:33] - most producers would only buy it if they could turn the characters into two white dudes. the writers wouldn't budge, and managed to find producers who would stay true to the script. that was groundbreaking, and that was only 2004. -nina
[2010-07-01 14:51:54] - daniel: there's institutionalized racism in the film and TV industry. only in the last 10 years have you seen non-white regularly taking major roles in TV casts. Even then it's still pretty rare. Harold & Kumar was groundbreaking b/c it was the first mainstream movie that starred two non-white guys. You know, the writers had shopped their script around for a while, and
[2010-07-01 14:50:08] - aaron and a: you're obviously willing to look at the political implications of blackface, but you're completely ignoring it for any other race. -nina
[2010-07-01 14:49:04] - nina: Is it upsetting that white people are playing other races? Or insulting that when they do they make other races look bad? Like would it be ok if they just didn't make other races look bad? I'm not trying to defend it just figure out which is the insulting part. -Daniel
[2010-07-01 14:48:57] - aaron: so you think David Carradine usurping Bruce Lee's role in Kung Fu is ok? you think the portrayal of Mr. Yunioshi in Breakfast at Tiffany's is ok? Just b/c Asians in the US haven't had the same political power and voice as the black community over the past 50 years doesn't make it worth dismissing. -nina
[2010-07-01 14:48:37] - i don't think it's valid to say "changing anybody's race in cinema is insulting because blackface was insulting". i don't understand that viewpoint. is that what you're trying to say? - aaron
[2010-07-01 14:47:00] - nina: yeah i agree with adrian, blackface has negative connotations for different reasons, i don't think it's a valid analogy in this case - aaron
[2010-07-01 14:44:57] - a: there's a very similar history with white men playing sterotypical asian characters. There's a history there, too. And that's why it's insulting. It's called yellowface. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yellowface -nina
[2010-07-01 14:24:08] - nina: because "it became associated with certain archetypes of American racism". we change the race of actors pretty often and don't make a big deal about it. blackface on the other hand . . . has a history. ~a
[2010-07-01 14:18:28] - pierce: I can't find any indication that they did. - mig
[2010-07-01 14:18:20] - nina: I'm still not sure, but man, does it piss people off. -- Xpovos
[2010-07-01 14:15:13] - Did they change Kingpin in the comics after MCD played him in daredevil? - pierce
[2010-07-01 14:13:59] - a: what's wrong with painting blackface on a white actor? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blackface -nina
[2010-07-01 14:03:20] - what's wrong with changing the race of an actor? ~a
[2010-07-01 13:49:20] - the whole airbender thing, the more i read about it, the more insulting it really is. and m. night has no shame about it either. -nina
[2010-07-01 13:48:42] - amy: yeah, i've been keeping up on the Airbender commentary on http://blog.angryasianman.com/ somewhere in there there is a reference to painting people yellowface. which gets to vinnie's point about them looking asian, b/c they basically painted asian faces on white people. -nina
[2010-07-01 13:09:59] - paul: i didn't know he turned black in the comics. i knew he was originally white and that samuel l jackson played him in Ironman. it's funny they changed his character in the comics to line up though - aaron
[2010-07-01 13:08:30] - Aaron: *Sigh* That comment came out somewhat redundant. Nevermind.
-Paul[2010-07-01 13:07:54] - Aaron: Funny that you mention Nick Fury, because he was actually originally white but was recently changed (in the comics) to an African American... possibly because Samuel L Jackson was going to portray him in Iron Man. -Paul
[2010-07-01 12:59:02] - i'm sure there are directors who would make those kind of decisions, "sorry samuel, you'd make a great nick fury but we're looking for someone white". but m night? really? i guess i've heard of some asians being racist against asians but i'd still be surprised if it influenced his casting decisions or if he was that shallow - aaron
[2010-07-01 12:51:48] - i don't totally understand the point MANAA is trying to make with that statement about double standard. it seems like m night tried to cast the best actors for the role and ignored ethnicity. based on their quote they're not seeking a level playing field, they're looking for affirmative action for actors - aaron
[2010-07-01 12:39:18] - At least the Prince of Persia was persian... -Paul
[2010-07-01 12:11:36] - Ah 21 was another movie like that... It was supposed to be based off this real life scenario. In real life the whole crew was basically Asian and in the movie it was all white with a token Asian ... or something along those lines I dont really remember ~gurkie
[2010-07-01 11:51:06] - Amy: And from what all the reviews are indicating, they didn't even hire GOOD white actors
- Stephen[2010-07-01 11:48:59] - ...does that, they think it will sell less if they have minorities in the lead roles. -amy
[2010-07-01 11:47:36] - i guess the greater issue is that hollywood already discriminates so much against asians, and a movie with asian characters would have been a great opportunity to cast asians in lead roles, but it sounds like they not only casted white actors instead, but actively sought whites over asians for the roles. for the same reason that almost every hollywood movie... -amy
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