prev <-> next
[2010-10-05 16:37:32] - oh right. i haven't seen him online recently though. ~a
[2010-10-05 16:31:59] - pierce seems to prefer protoss as well. - mig
[2010-10-05 16:13:41] - haha, yeah it's amazing how people (myself included) are very reluctant to remove horrible code and start over. instead we try to fix the horrible code even when that means far more work than starting from scratch. ~a
[2010-10-05 15:41:29] - http://thedailywtf.com/Articles/Tweaking-the-Code.aspx soston - aaron
[2010-10-05 15:38:24] - Matt: I'll play any race (and will usually do random for team games), but zerg is my first love and the race I think I am best at. Terran is my second best, and Protoss is my worst. -Paul
[2010-10-05 15:11:22] - no, i'm gold
i'm on the cusp, but i haven't been playing 1v1 much. ~a[2010-10-05 15:09:14] - a: hmmm, you're platinum? I kinda want to get in some games against protoss - Matt
[2010-10-05 15:03:02] - also a number of people are random. mark (not here), paul, dewey (not here often). ~a
[2010-10-05 15:02:21] - matt: yo. ~a
[2010-10-05 15:01:55] - does anyone play protoss, or are you guys all zerg and miguel is terran? - Matt
[2010-10-05 14:56:37] - xpovos: i only recently stopped playing sc1. so i doubt i'll stop playing sc2 any time soon. ~a
[2010-10-05 13:42:37] - pierce: You realize of course that it is an artificial word, or perhaps, more accurately, an alien word? -- Xpovos
[2010-10-05 13:39:55] - It feels like a very artificial word, with it's in-your-face phonetic spelling and cavemanesque pronunciation. - pierce
[2010-10-05 13:38:26] - a: oh right, that was sunday wasn't it! i can't remember, but actually i was referring to amy being hit in the throat - aaron
[2010-10-05 13:15:09] - pierce: Out of curiosity, what's your reason for hating grok? -- Xpovos
[2010-10-05 13:10:21] - Xpovos: Don't worry, I'll be playing SC2 for a while, I think. -Paul
[2010-10-05 13:01:52] - aaron: I'm good at belting people in various body parts with frisbees! -- Xpovos
[2010-10-05 12:48:12] - haha, right, who hit you in the throat? ~a
[2010-10-05 12:47:13] - you mean 38.887,-77.275? ~a
[2010-10-05 12:43:57] - xpovos: we can always use more people. sometimes we get too many people, but when that happens we just belt people in the throat with the frisbee until we have the right number again - aaron
[2010-10-05 12:40:35] - xpovos: we do ultimate every sunday, you could come to that but it's at nottaway park which is quite a drive for you - aaron
[2010-10-05 12:37:44] - what is up with that? i find i don't hang out with my friends as much as i used to either. it's mostly my own doing though: i live far away and i fail to plan activities. for the few activities that have been planned recently, i've been out of town.
maybe i should move? ~a[2010-10-05 12:36:43] - yeah, for the record I kinda dislike the word "scrub" used that way. Unrelated, but I also hate "grok". - pierce
[2010-10-05 12:30:39] - a: Ah, OK. I knew the slang--from TLC if nothing else... or was that Destiny's Child? Anyway, I was missing the weekend conversation bits because 1) My Starcraft is buried in a box still. 2) I don't get to spend time with you guys in person anymore. What's up with that?
[2010-10-05 12:19:45] - right, ok . . . something i learned this weekend: "scrubs" is some sort of derogatory term for a crappy player. basically, calling someone a noob or saying "you suck" or something like that. we were called scrubs by a player that was making marines and nothing else. paul got a kick out of the term and wanted to call all of the people we won against "scrubs". ~a
[2010-10-05 12:07:41] - a: If it makes you feel any better, I *still* don't get it. -- Xpovos
[2010-10-05 10:52:16] - right . . . not quite sure why i didn't put that together. sorry for ruining your joke
~a[2010-10-05 10:01:16] - stephen: not today, apparently, maybe next week. - mig
[2010-10-04 20:01:20] - a: he starred on "scrubs". - pierce
[2010-10-04 17:33:28] - pierce: you need to put "[["s around your reference so we don't all have to search wikipedia ourselves
. . . also, how exactly is he a fast-quitter? ~a[2010-10-04 17:27:39] - matt: ahhahahahaha! nice - aaron
[2010-10-04 17:09:36] - sounds like the icon should be a photo of zach braff. - pierce
[2010-10-04 17:07:03] - aaron: that would be in line with Blizzard...In WoW if you're a hunter who names his pet after yourself or a teammate (to get an advantage in arena), they'll perma-change the name to 'Spot' - Matt
[2010-10-04 17:04:45] - would you call them scrubs? ~a
[2010-10-04 17:01:31] - i don't know what that icon should be but i think it would be funny that every time you play in a 3v3 or 4v4 with them, they have some kind of shameful icon and you'd all laugh at them - aaron
[2010-10-04 17:00:51] - blizzard should try to assemble a list of people who fast-quit team games just to get cooler profile icons... they should get that list, and they should assign all of those users a new permanent profile icon - aaron
[2010-10-04 16:54:14] - mig: Any idea when WoW 4.0.1 will be released? - Stephen
[2010-10-04 16:53:48] - yeah, you can't do the "trade me your minerals so i can get a fast pool" thing; it's explicitly against the rules. you're only allowed to trade resources in the 5-minute-window if you drop - aaron
[2010-10-04 16:38:22] - aaron: I do think it's a little curious how often I've seen teams lose to another team where one (or even two) of their players dropped very early in the game. -Paul
[2010-10-04 16:37:26] - or was it 5? i forget, but the point remains. - mig
[2010-10-04 16:37:05] - actually you can't. Resource trading is not allowed for the first 2 minutes of team games. - mig
[2010-10-04 16:35:22] - aaron: I don't think its a gameplay problem. If you wanted to do a super fast pool, you could get your allies to transfer you that money without dropping, which is perfectly within the game rules.
[2010-10-04 16:32:41] - aaron: it's both. - mig
[2010-10-04 16:27:33] - like, they can all get their spawning pool down faster, and build their stuff faster, because they're getting their allies' minerals? i might misunderstand the mechanics of what happens in that case - aaron
[2010-10-04 16:26:36] - is the problem really just about getting wins dropping? i thought it was cheesy because teammates get their minerals/gas that they're mining. like, that's actually a gameplay problem - not just a social problem... right? - aaron
[2010-10-04 16:23:56] - WoW_people: cata officially to be released on 12/7/10 - mig
[2010-10-04 16:10:10] - matt: most ledge abuse seems to be dealt with by using an OL for sight with spine crawlers nearby. Tank drops are popular on those ledges too. - mig
[2010-10-04 16:09:25] - Toxie was an excellent journalistic experiment. But even then, it's so complicated that they're barely scratching the surface. -- Xpovos
[2010-10-04 16:08:46] - mig: I finally encountered some lost temple cheese the other day, with the terran dropping on my expo ledge to nuke the expo -- any way you've seen that defended? Was thinking make a crawler and put an ovie for sight - Matt
[2010-10-04 16:00:03] - paul: yeah this has been known for a while. There's a window of advantage that the short-handed team can actually use in the early game because they get minerals from the dropped person (which normally isn't allowed before the 2-minute mark), and if you do a very quick rush you can end up winning with some luck. - mig
[2010-10-04 15:51:26] - Starcraft Players: http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/forum/topic/777597897 This might explain all of those people who disconnected early in the big 4v4 games. Apparently they are just trying to got a ton of wins fast. -Paul
[2010-10-04 14:15:11] - Pierce: You're welcome! -Citizens United
[2010-10-04 14:11:05] - thanks, Citizens United! - pierce
[2010-10-04 14:10:11] - and: "The bulk of the money is being spent by conservatives, who have swamped their Democratic-aligned competition by 7 to 1 in recent weeks." - pierce
[2010-10-04 14:09:54] - choice quotes: "The $80 million spent so far by groups outside the Democratic and Republican parties dwarfs the $16 million spent at this point for the 2006 midterms. In that election, the vast majority of money - more than 90 percent - was disclosed along with donors' identities. This year, that figure has fallen to less than half of the total" - pierce
[2010-10-04 14:09:24] - Interest-group spending for midterm up fivefold from 2006; many sources secret - pierce
[2010-10-04 13:46:00] - xpovos: heh heh good article. poor toxie - aaron
[2010-10-04 13:08:03] - xpovos: yeah, I saw that but hadn't read the details. I like the idea of explaining the economic crisis using narratives like The Life and Times of Toxie. it's really the only way to explain this stuff to a lot of people so they can understand it without an economics degree. - pierce
[2010-10-04 12:57:34] - http://www.npr.org/blogs/money/2010/09/23/130079590/toxie-s-dead -- Xpovos
[2010-10-04 11:27:04] - hehe, QR Code on the back of a deck of cards. ~a
[2010-10-04 10:16:29] - Paul: Attack Aaron instead. Pierce will be in Azeroth tonight, so he will be unavailable. - Stephen
[2010-10-04 09:53:21] - Pierce: Sounds like a reasonable plan. What's your address, again? -Paul
[2010-10-04 09:37:28] - paul: the key is to keep them on the defensive... tonight you should attack someone else in their bed before they can attack you. - pierce
[2010-10-04 09:23:30] - a: I tried bunkering down underneath the covers, but it didn't help. -Paul
[2010-10-04 09:16:02] - put a few canons near your pillow line. ~a
[2010-10-04 09:06:59] - You know you've stayed up too late playing starcraft when you wake up the next morning and can't get back to sleep because you're worried about reapers or zerglings attacking your bed. -Paul
[2010-10-01 13:59:53] - vinnie: i like the sign in the far back too, the one with the heart on it - aaron
[2010-10-01 13:46:30] - pierce: http://www.rawstory.com/images/shrivell3.jpg some more ideas for you on the right half of this pic - vinnie
[2010-10-01 13:24:48] - a: you are older than me!! ~gurkie
[2010-10-01 13:24:38] - pierce: sweet Ill check out netflix. ~gurkie
[2010-10-01 10:47:23] - pierce: nice I already had BSG in my queue - vinnie
[2010-10-01 10:36:50] - Vinnie: Cool, I wanted to post it since although I can't go I know some people here might want to and not be aware. I'll check out their new album though. -- Xpovos
[2010-10-01 10:34:48] - Psych is fun. Not all episodes are awesome, but enough of them reach a high level that I feel the series is worth trying. There's one episode (I thin the last one for Season 1) that is, IMO, particularly good. But that's just because I'm a nerd/geek of the right persuasion. -- Xpovos
[2010-10-01 10:19:50] - daniel: instant watch. - pierce
[2010-10-01 10:12:12] - pierce: heh heh heh not bad - aaron
[2010-10-01 10:03:49] - pierce: instant watch or just the dvds? -Daniel
[2010-10-01 10:01:17] - netflix added a buttload of TV shows today. if you've been thinking of checking out psych or monk or battlestar galactica, or some new seasons of 30 rock and the office, they're available. - pierce
[2010-10-01 09:59:30] - "Earwax keeping you up at night? Try Mendelson's Water Picks for maximum ear comfort!" - pierce
[2010-10-01 09:58:11] - maybe like... a really insensitive newsletter describing how to diagnose if someone's afflicted with dementia - aaron
[2010-10-01 09:54:47] - a: heh yeah they're weird? but all the other ones still have some conceivable use in a powerpoint presentation or newsletter or something. i could definitely see my gym sending out some newsletter with a guy frustrated with a treadmill. i can't imagine ANY company sending out a newsletter with a man lying down awake in a bed using a cake for a pillow - aaron
[2010-10-01 09:52:53] - gurkie: in that order of priority? - pierce
[2010-10-01 09:43:07] - xpovos: yep I'm going to that. their new album is pretty good, poppier than I expected from them - vinnie
[2010-10-01 09:29:49] - i'm not old.
~a[2010-10-01 09:27:54] - Dee: its a's not mine... I was saying I wouldnt want to see Shakespear nude since he is old and dead. ~gurkie
[2010-09-30 23:54:31] - Gurkie: I'm interested in your Shakespear in the nude costume... ~Dee
[2010-09-30 22:39:56] - Underworld will be playing the 9:30 club 10/25... -- Xpovos
[2010-09-30 17:40:31] - man stuck in fold-up couch, woman being sprayed by kitchen sink, man who's passed out on a treadmill, woman's garage door accident, man stuck in fold-up deck chair, man checking his mail in the middle of a dig site. the list goes on. ~a
[2010-09-30 17:37:11] - hah, well, all of that dude's pictures are almost as weird. ~a
[2010-09-30 16:39:00] - why would anybody need this stock photo? - aaron
[2010-09-30 16:21:07] - paul: I dont remember them... also I think Vamy's party is such that we might not be back from Japan yet... ~gurkie
[2010-09-30 14:50:09] - Gurkie: You already heard my ideas for Halloween costumes and vetoed them.
-Paul[2010-09-30 14:49:38] - paul: like i said, i'm not totally sure. but i know i've had like 15 larva from one hatchery before after several rounds of spawn larva while i was supply capped. - mig
[2010-09-30 14:48:09] - mig: I thought I read somewhere that there was a hard cap on larva, but I don't know for sure. -Paul
[2010-09-30 14:45:29] - mig: oh that's funny. i bet it's like the NFL too, where like - you can't just air some of the redskins without the NFL getting involved, even if it's a casual match. what a drag - aaron
[2010-09-30 14:44:11] - mig: but you're right, looking at sc2ranks, about 25% top 100 korean players are zerg. hmm - aaron
[2010-09-30 14:42:56] - aaron: korean videos can be hard to find because a lot of them are broadcast on TV and in PPV streams (and from what i understand, sometimes of tournament high level games are generally not publically available either), so even if they are found on youtube, they might get bonked by the rights holders. - mig
[2010-09-30 14:40:12] - mig: it's also possible koreans suck at terran/protoss
- aaron[2010-09-30 14:34:19] - mig: cool!!! yeah, i really want to see replays from those players all of the top-tier tvz and zvp games i see are just like, zerg outmatching their opponents 2:1 or 3:1 in supply... but still losing all their units in one-sided battles. i've been looking around but i guess those replays are hard to find or something - aaron
[2010-09-30 14:31:53] - aaron: all of the things with the most votes are not "automation things" ~a
[2010-09-30 14:31:05] - i think fundamentally zerg units just need a little more micro potential. maybe that's buffing burrow a little. or maybe if you select a single zerg unit and type "we like to party" it gets 3 hp back - aaron
[2010-09-30 14:30:54] - aaron: zerg players are dominating in Korea. They seem to know something that the other regions don't. - mig
[2010-09-30 14:29:19] - i don't think any of those automation things are going to balance zerg. i have trouble believing that high level zerg players are losing because they forget to spawn larva. if anything, it seems like higher tier games are being lost because zerg units are weaker than properly microed terran/protoss units - aaron
[2010-09-30 14:25:17] - Chad Ochocinco likes to party. Apparently. -- Xpovos
[2010-09-30 14:23:44] - Also one of the complaints of terran mules is that it "rewards forgetfulness" because you can save 200 energy and instantly get 4 mules, which seems like a valid criticism, but auto-cast spawn larva would be the same thing, except much worse. - mig
[2010-09-30 14:20:57] - and if spawn larva is auto-cast, that's really easy to do. - mig
[2010-09-30 14:20:25] - like stockpiling enough to be able to replace a 200 supply army instantly. - mig
[2010-09-30 14:19:54] - I can imagine many scenarios where stockpiling larva to ridiculous levels would be a problem. - mig
[2010-09-30 14:19:41] - speaking of lil kids... I am going to have another neice! ~gurkie
[2010-09-30 14:19:26] - xpovos: that costume works best with accessories... such as lil kids =P ~gurkie
[2010-09-30 14:17:29] - gurkie: I'll be going as "harried parent". I expect that'll be a pretty easy costume to make, too. -- Xpovos
[2010-09-30 14:13:49] - mig: a hard cap? do you have trouble where people have to much larvae? -Daniel
[2010-09-30 14:07:21] - paul: i wouldn't mind seeing auto-cast on spawn larva but their needs to be a hard cap on how many larva can be out at a time (as of now i don't think there is). - mig
[2010-09-30 14:05:09] - nobody here skis, right? ~a
[2010-09-30 14:03:54] - i'll be at vamy's party, i guess. and i'll be young shakespeare. or something else if people think i'm too old to be seen nude
~a[2010-09-30 14:01:20] - a: are you going to vamy's party or are you really going to see shakespeare in the nude? cause that guy is kinda old and dead not sure id be into seeing him nude... ~gurkie
[2010-09-30 14:00:41] - gurkie: i'll be shakespeare in the nude. ~a
[2010-09-30 13:54:55] - who has ideas for halloween costumes? (blatant attempt to find a new topic) ~gurkie
[2010-09-30 13:49:13] - http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/forum/topic/628080778 There are a lot of good suggestions in the first post of this thread... a lot of things I didn't even know I wanted until I read it (Overlord rally point, spawn larva autocast). -Paul
[2010-09-30 13:35:35] - gurkie: Hopefully not before Christmas. -- Xpovos
[2010-09-30 13:31:25] - Matt: Yeah. I feel like the best response to mass barracks has to be banelings, unless they are going for Marauders... in which case I guess speedlings are the counter. -Paul
[2010-09-30 13:20:23] - gurkie: you are in charge of coming up with a new topic. ~a
[2010-09-30 13:16:28] - Paul: Ah fail, I forgot to name the replay and its lost now. I did learn though that mutas are a really lousy response to mass barracks... - Matt
[2010-09-30 13:14:30] - Siiigh when will the SC2 kick be over? ~gurkie
[2010-09-30 12:08:05] - aaron: No, I hardly ever fight against the AI. I would think it might work really well for the computer, though, since it could instantly burrow individual roaches and unburrow them when they are healed. -Paul
[2010-09-30 11:55:50] - paul: yeah the CPU seems to think it should work too
i don't know if you've ever seen the CPU trying to micro roaches - aaron[2010-09-30 11:47:06] - daniel: then we will fight in the shade ~a
[2010-09-30 11:44:27] - aaron: Yeah, I think I agree with all of your points, it just seems like burrowing individual roaches (especially with the regen) should work better than it does. -Paul
[2010-09-30 11:43:28] - You just need enough muta's that they blot out the sun. Then descend on your opponent in a righteous fury the likes of which he's never seen and taste his tears as you revel in victory. Something like that anyways. -Daniel
[2010-09-30 11:36:57] - more and more every day, it's sounding like aaron wants to switch races. ~a
[2010-09-30 11:18:33] - paul: but like miguel said, blink doesn't have the half-second of vulnerability, it doesn't take you 2-3 seconds to move your blinked unit, so basically while you're spending ~3 seconds (and double the micro) trying to move a burrowed roach to the back of your swarm, the opponent has gotten off about 6 shots on your roaches - aaron
[2010-09-30 11:15:41] - paul: yeah i saw that video. blink stalkers are annoying against zerg, and mass speedlings are a shitty answer to them - aaron
[2010-09-30 10:46:10] - xpovos: only the roach and the infestor have the ability to move while burrowed. - mig
[2010-09-30 10:45:51] - paul: the difference is the 1 second lag in between the burrowing where the unit is vulnerable. You can't wait until a unit is in the red to start burrowing. It's not as good as blink but it can be fairly effective in a battle that's not humongous - mig
[2010-09-30 10:44:13] - aaron: SC2 allows underground movement now? SC1 burrowed units couldn't move. Or do you mean moving the unburrowed ones ahead of the burrowed? In which case that's hard since you have to gain ground during the fight. -- Xpovos
[2010-09-30 10:37:25] - aaron: It's odd, because I saw a clip where a guy was using blink to have his near-death stalkers retreat for a second or two and it made a noticeable difference in the outcome of the battle for him. I would think burrow should work the same way (particularly with roaches, who heal so fast). -Paul
[2010-09-30 10:11:12] - paul: yeah burrowing one roach at a time doesn't really help. maybe if you just burrowing a roach and move him to the back of the group? i don't know - aaron
[2010-09-30 09:48:46] - I did find a strategy that worked really well, though. I just burrowed and unburrowed all my roaches as a group. Doing that, I managed to kill all the zealots and only lost one roach... I probably could've done it without losing any had I been a little quicker. -Paul
[2010-09-30 09:47:20] - And it failed miserably, I ended up losing just as many units as I did when I just let them fight straight up. The problem was as I burrowed my roaches, the zealots had greater and greater numerical superiority until they were able to kill my roaches faster than I could burrow them. -Paul
[2010-09-30 09:44:20] - On a slightly related note, I was playing the "For the Swarm" challenge yesterday, and during the roaches vs zealots matchup, I tried the "burrow roaches near death" tactic to prevent myself from losing units. -Paul
[2010-09-30 09:42:54] - Matt: Cool, I might be interested in seeing that replay. I have a hard time imagining mutas holding their own against vikings and marines. -Paul
[2010-09-29 15:58:34] - the problem seems to be affecting other services like ssh. ~a
[2010-09-29 15:56:34] - hmmm, it's unlikely a software problem (based on the testing i've done, it appears that apache is responding correctly connecting from other places inside my house). most likely it's either: 1. comcast, 2. my cable modem, or 3. my outward facing network card. i won't be able to rule out #3 until i'm physically at my house. much apologies! ~a
[2010-09-29 15:45:56] - a: yeah i'm having problems connecting. - mig
[2010-09-29 15:30:18] - have you guys had problem with the message board today? i'm wondering if the problems i'm having are because of my isp/network at work or because of my isp/network/computer at home. ~a
[2010-09-29 15:22:42] - mig: i saw you do that on sunday! i thought it was unintentional so i tried to pull it back before i realized you were probably doing it on purpose. regardless, i think it's a dumb idea because you can't create more starports after you lose your factory, right? ~a
[2010-09-29 15:01:23] - mig: yeah i've seen terrans get the starport and then just send their factory into the enemy base to scout which still looks really, really goofy.... even though i've seen it a half dozen times - aaron
[2010-09-29 14:52:59] - you can always forgo units. that doesn't change the "tier". ~a
[2010-09-29 14:52:13] - again this is why I'm loathed to use the term tier. Early/Mid/Late game alleviates a lot of that confusion. - mig
[2010-09-29 14:49:59] - most of the time I end up sacrificing my factory against protoss as a scout once i have 1 or 2 starports up. - mig
[2010-09-29 14:49:52] - aaron: alright fine, you found the logic error. Banshees are definitely tier 2, but that dependency completely wrecks my system. - Matt
[2010-09-29 14:48:52] - aaron: terran is a little different because depending on your strategy you may forgo factory units entirely (very common when playing against protoss), so it would make sense to consider banshess/vikings tier 2 in that case. - mig
[2010-09-29 14:47:16] - a: i was online last just, but playing wow. - mig
[2010-09-29 14:47:03] - matt: wait, how are banshees tier 2? don't you need a factory to build a starport? that's a chain of advanced structures, right? i might be wrong about factory being an advanced structure, i don't play terran multiplayer - aaron
[2010-09-29 14:42:08] - a: lol. "mandatory faraday cages inside every vehicle". i like it - aaron
[2010-09-29 14:28:21] - well at least he isn't matt -- we have 3 matts on this project. How's #2D757A? - Matt
[2010-09-29 14:22:22] - i'll associate it with your name, just pick a color. ~a
[2010-09-29 14:21:56] - you're mriley, that's funny my officemate is named mriley, but he's mark instead of matt. ~a
[2010-09-29 14:20:04] - I'm mjriley2 at gmail.com -- how do I get a color - Matt
[2010-09-29 14:17:17] - i was on last night and nobody was there. i guess i don't have you on my buddy list or something. i'm adrian-mz-gg at aporter dot org. also, pick a color! ~a
[2010-09-29 13:57:28] - Argh, keep leaving out the name. paul: if you're still wondering about muta harass, I have a replay I played last night which has mutas containing the terran, even tho he went heavy vikings and marines. - Matt
[2010-09-29 13:56:03] - If you don't count terran "add-ons" as buildings, then its still unambiguous. Banshees and vikings are tier 2, as they should be. IMO, tiers correspond to the metagame phase you're in -- tier 1 is about light-weight units, tier 2 is about hard counters to tier 1 units, and tier 3 has units able to finish long games when tier 2 units won't cut it.
[2010-09-29 13:47:18] - "A new study has found that various state laws that ban texting while driving might actually make the roads more dangerous... The theory is that the laws don't do much to stop people from texting while driving — but instead, leads them to try to hide the activity more." from sd. ~a
[2010-09-29 10:07:32] - mig: yeah they're both tier 2 i don't understand why that's confusing... how is it difference between choosing between a spire and hydralisk den? - aaron
[2010-09-29 10:02:43] - is supply cost a reliable system? i mean all the "higher tier" units eat up 5-6 supply right? and grunts are all 1-2 supply? - aaron
[2010-09-29 10:02:17] - it's confusing for protoss as well because you can build either a robotics facility or a stargate once your cybernetics core finishes, in that case which are they both tier 2? - mig
[2010-09-29 10:01:17] - piece: yeaaah either system results in terran tiers not really matching up unfortunately. intuitively marauders/roaches/stalkers should be on the same tier, void rays/mutas/banshees should be on a next higher tier, and brood lords/battlecruisers/carriers on a next higher tier... just based on when they appear in the game. maybe discounting tech labs helps - aaron
[2010-09-29 09:58:26] - Using the term "tier" for starcraft if you're not talking about zerg is just confusing. Is the Thor tier 2, 2.5, or 3? What about Colossi? Tiers made sense for warcraft 3 because the main building for all the races worked liked the zerg hatchery (Town Hall -> Fort -> Castle), and all the tech trees were designed around the concept of tiers. - mig
[2010-09-29 09:57:27] - terrans have fuzzier lines because of the building additions and interchangeability. I'd say the math goes, barracks is t1 and factory/starport are t2, techlab or an add-on building adds a tier. thors and battlecruisers would be t4 by that math, but I actually think that's fairly accurate. - pierce
[2010-09-29 09:38:50] - or maybe that's right, maybe just everything out of a starport is tier 3 but it seems silly to call medivacs tier 3. maybe terrans just need a different classification - aaron
[2010-09-29 09:37:05] - matt: ohh okay so it's "B" or "V" yeah you're right that's in-game terminology. okay you're right that's unambiguous and easy... so dark templars are tier 2 and collosus are tier 3... hellions are tier 2... vikings are tier 3 and... banshees are tier...4? hmmm maybe it's still a little muddy for me - aaron
[2010-09-28 21:50:46] - hey i got swype. yay! ~a
[2010-09-28 17:24:59] - aaron: isn't "basic structure" (b) and "advanced structure" (v) in-game terminology? Roaches are definitely tier 1. I've never played terran, but if factory is still under advanced structures, then helion is tier 2 - Matt
[2010-09-28 17:12:03] - paul: sure. does 4:00 work for everybody? ~a
[2010-09-28 16:52:44] - matt: so hellions and roaches are tier 2? or what's an "advanced structure"? - aaron
[2010-09-28 16:36:08] - a: Are you handling the ultimate planning for this weekend? -Paul
[2010-09-28 16:35:27] - Aaron: Early on, I had some problems with the lack of anti-air at tier 1 for zerg (lost a few games to void ray rushes and banshee rushes), but I haven't had that much of a problem lately. Now, I seem to have a few hydras by the time flyers come around. -Paul
[2010-09-28 16:18:03] - aaron: Ah, alt-shift-b, I'll have to remember that. -Paul
[2010-09-28 16:13:41] - It pretty much holds true for all races -- units from basic structures are tier 1, those that require advanced structures are tier 2, and those that require a chain of advanced structures are tier 3 - Matt
[2010-09-28 15:46:03] - Zerg tiers are easy to define. Hatchery Required = t1, Lair required =t2, Hive required = t3. Other races I'm not as sure. -Daniel
[2010-09-28 15:39:27] - what's the definition of tier 1? is there a website with all the tiers defined? ~a
[2010-09-28 15:11:09] - a: ooooh that's tough. if they're spread out, the marines have an easier time taking them out. banelings are one of the few times where i think it's bad to have a concave - aaron
[2010-09-28 15:09:58] - and lastly the inability to wall off makes zerg infinitely more susceptible to cheesy builds. in multiplayer, if i decide to be cheesy and go for a 7/8 pool, i always go straight for the zerg player, because they can never defend against it - aaron
[2010-09-28 15:07:03] - can you spread banelings out to keep them all from getting hit by a seige tank? ~a
[2010-09-28 15:03:42] - honestly the hardest thing i have with zerg is the lack of anti-air at tier 1. it's like, i can kind of deal with a ground army, maybe, if i mass up ground. and i can deal with void rays or banshees if i rush to lair. but it is really hard to cover both. protoss have stalkers, terrans have marines. i guess technically zerg have queens? maybe? - aaron
[2010-09-28 15:01:23] - paul: yeah. you need banelings too. and then you need to cast the magic baneling toughness spell so that the seige tanks don't pop your banelings in one hit (i think it's alt shift b) - aaron
[2010-09-28 15:00:20] - paul: muta/baneling appears to be a pretty good combination against terran atm. you use banelings to take out the marines and mutas can wipe out the remaining marauders. this assumes your opponent is only building two kinds of units? but from my experience that's actually a remarkably diverse army for a terran - aaron
[2010-09-28 14:59:31] - Aaron: How well do they work against seige tanks? The few times I've tried using them, they just get slaughtered by marines before they can take them all out unless they have their tanks really trailing the marines. -Paul
[2010-09-28 14:58:15] - Daniel: I'm sure you are right on the 5 mutas vs hydras and roaches because the roaches would be useless, but the hydras and roaches would be a lot cheaper and are attainable earlier than the mutas. I also think it's a more flexible force in terms of fighting other units. -Paul
[2010-09-28 14:58:00] - paul: mutas are faster than all four of those units though. and they actually do well as far as augmenting a ground army imho. i think mutas are a must-have against terran, simply because they're one of the only two units that i can get to work against seige tanks - aaron
[2010-09-28 14:54:46] - 5 muta's would kill 3 hydra's 2 roaches. 5 muta's wouldn't kill 5 vikings but speedlings will kill vikings if he lands with them and unless he goes heavy vikings I'll have enough muta's to kill his vikings. -Daniel
[2010-09-28 14:53:18] - Matt: I guess that's a good point about drawing their attention away from better things. I just feel like my muta harass is good for one surprise push before it gets countered by vikings/marines or void rays/stalkers. -Paul
[2010-09-28 14:52:00] - I guess I somewhat misspoke. I don't necessarily doubt that zerg is underpowered, especially among the elite players, it's just I haven't noticed it personally. -Paul
[2010-09-28 14:49:09] - And yeah, mutalisk harass throws so many players off. If you get the terran to put up missile turrets, that's money he's wasting, and paranoia you're creating. If he doesn't, you just constantly go back and forth and hit whatever you can. Chances are he'll sit on one base while you can expand. - Matt
[2010-09-28 14:47:31] - Paul: that tourney last weekend had essentially no zerg (save one guy who basically played random) after the initial group phase. I'm not sure why exactly, but its generally agreed upon with higher players that zerg is underpowered
[2010-09-28 14:46:54] - if it works once that's often enough. also, if you come back in increasing numbers, you might be able to defeat the few marines/stalkers hanging out. also . . . maybe not. ~a
[2010-09-28 14:39:00] - a: Huh, interesting. It seems like most people are prepared for that when I play them and even if they're not, they just sit some marines/stalkers in their supply lines after I hit it. -Paul
[2010-09-28 14:35:15] - they're so damn fast. ~a
[2010-09-28 14:34:33] - harass. people who are good at microing with them can usually bring my economy to its knees. ~a
[2010-09-28 14:32:08] - a: How do mutas typically kill you? Is it just harassing your supply lines, or do they win straight up battles? -Paul
[2010-09-28 14:31:36] - Daniel: Given 5 larva, I would much rather have 2 roaches and 3 hydras (for 200 gas) than 5 mutas (for 500 gas). -Paul
[2010-09-28 14:28:18] - Daniel: Agreed that roach/hydra is insanely gas intensive, but mutalisks are also really heavy on gas and they can't seem to take down any units head to head (that can hit air). -Paul
[2010-09-28 14:13:29] - 'They are good dps* but very fragile' was how that is supposed to read. -Daniel
[2010-09-28 14:13:02] - Paul: When I play I rarely use hydra's. They are hps but very fragile and its hard for me to get roach / hyrda due to gas cost unless the other player is just sitting around. Mutas aren't super strong but super mobile and in numbers can take down a lot. -Daniel
[2010-09-28 14:03:32] - for people who play against me and win: they're usually using mutas and rarely too many hydras. ~a
[2010-09-28 13:57:19] - I almost never use mutalisks since they seem to have gotten a lot worse since Brood Wars, and hydras are almost always an integral part of my zerg army... and I don't think zerg are that underpowered. I must not know what I'm doing.
-Paul[2010-09-28 13:55:26] - Does anybody here read the zerg discussion forum on battle.net? It seems like I'm playing a different game than those people. First of all, it seems like 75% of the posts are just whining about how under-powered the zerg are. Secondly, everybody seems to agree that mutalisks are perfect and hydralisks suck. -Paul
[2010-09-28 13:53:21] - Pierce: Ah, ok. I thought it was a lot sooner. Also, I think your sign is very appropriate. -Paul
[2010-09-28 13:36:24] - yeah it's not for over a month. ~a
[2010-09-28 13:12:00] - pierce: http://wondermark.com/175/ He sells the actual bumper stickers too... -- Xpovos
[2010-09-28 12:52:46] - paul: it's october 30th. - pierce
[2010-09-28 12:52:30] - a: yes. - pierce
[2010-09-28 12:45:16] - Pierce: I assume you're participating in the Stewart rally, then? Is it today? -Paul
[2010-09-28 12:26:48] - a: I think they are noon to 3. -Daniel
[2010-09-28 12:17:22] - pierce: what time are the various rallies? i'm pretty busy before noon. ~a
[2010-09-28 12:01:44] - pierce: i like it - aaron
[2010-09-28 11:38:11] - that one is pretty awesome. did you make it up? ~a
[2010-09-28 11:32:33] - pierce: haha, excellent - vinnie
[2010-09-28 11:24:34] - I need sign suggestions for the Stewart/Colbert rally. Right now my leading candidate is "IF YOUR BELIEFS FIT ON A SIGN, THINK HARDER". - pierce
[2010-09-27 19:00:40] - a: yeah exactly, i agree with you entirely. it's the same as like, a "non-anonymous" internet. i think it should exist. i just don't trust ISPs/the government/whomever to do it properly, and to not try and wipe out the existing NN/anonymous internet - aaron
[2010-09-27 18:54:40] - the sad part is i like the idea of a non-nn-net. but . . . i want the consumers to be able to control the network instead of the isps. as a user, i want to be able to be like: "hey internet, i don't care if my emails or my website requests get to their destinations right away; but i really want my phone call packets to go through all fast like." ~a
[2010-09-27 18:51:58] - "the problem is that you can implement nn on non-nn hardware, but you can't implement non-nn on nn hardware" kind of a minor issue: by hardware, you mean software, right? to answer your first question, yes it would violate the spirit of nn to have isps providing non-nn connectivity. ~a
[2010-09-27 18:45:08] - you explained why it was a bad idea at the end: "harmless as long as the nn net is still fast" see, the nn net wouldn't be fast because the isps would be constantly trying to all-but phase it out. ~a
[2010-09-27 18:42:10] - in other words... if you agree that both designs have their advantage, and that we might want both kinds of networks in existence (kept separate)... the problem is that you can implement NN on non-NN hardware, but you can't implement non-NN on NN hardware - aaron
[2010-09-27 18:35:07] - a: but then it's like - i'm not too internet smart but it seems like the easiest way to implement the "both kinds of parallel networks" would be to reuse the current NN hardware in a non NN way
so i guess the question is... would it still violate the spirit of NN to have both networks running on the same hardware as an experiment - aaron[2010-09-27 18:33:05] - a: heh well here's a thought exercise. it's like, would you have an objection to having both kinds of networks side by side? so people can go on the "net neutral" internet for normal stuff, and there's a commercial "non-net neutral" internet for - who knows. that seems harmless as long as the NN net is still fast right? - aaron
[2010-09-27 17:21:10] - well fine! if we agree on what nn stands for, then can we at least disagree on whether it should be implemented? ~a
[2010-09-27 14:55:29] - oof, seems like pretty bad PR for Segways - vinnie
[2010-09-27 13:29:13] - a: I don't think so, to me that still implies that as long as Comcast throttles NBC traffic for everybody equally, it would be ok. It's a silly thing to keep arguing about, since I think we both understand what NN stands for, I just didn't quite understand the statement that you had made. -Paul
[2010-09-27 13:02:30] - the owner of the segway company (not the inventor/creator), died yesterday on a segway. ~a
[2010-09-27 12:58:46] - paul: "throttling/filtering must be done equally (throttling/filtering illegal traffic is allowed)" is that wording clearer? ~a
[2010-09-27 12:26:33] - paul: i think that's pretty much the definition of "data descrimination"... saying that NBC packets are more important than non-NBC packets, which is (i think) like... the main main principal of net neutrality - aaron
[2010-09-27 12:07:52] - Regardless, one of the issues right now is that consumers are given 'up top 5 Mbps' plans, not '5 Mbps' plans. It justifies all kinds of outages, slowdowns, and activities, both legitimate and not-legitimate. And I don't see that changing for a long time. -- Xpovos
[2010-09-27 11:42:01] - It just says that if two people have the same access, they should be able to connect to each other at the subscribed level, which might be slower for non-NBC sites. -Paul
[2010-09-27 11:40:48] - According to what Adrian said, "The principle states that if a given user pays for a certain level of Internet access, and another user pays for the same level of access, then the two users should be able to connect to each other at the subscribed level". It doesn't say that the internet access has to be consistent across all sites... -Paul
[2010-09-27 11:39:39] - aaron: I understand that. But what if they sell you internet at 20 MB/s for NBC sites and 10 MB/s for all other sites? Is that allowed if they explicitly say it? -Paul
[2010-09-27 11:25:35] - heh heh. i guess one way of defeating it is, like, they could sell you 1 KB/s internet. maybe they dress the term up. 3 million bytes per hour!!! or something. and then NBC gets faster access than you paid for? i'm sure there's sleazy ways around the spirit of the law that technically meet the letter of the law, i'm not sure if that's what you mean - aaron
[2010-09-27 11:22:26] - paul: i don't understand what you find confusing. the purpose of an ISP is they sell people tiers of internet access. if i sell you 20 MB/s internet and I sell adrian 20 MB/s internet, you two should be able to connect at 20 MB/s. that's the tenet that all of your suggestions are violating - aaron
[2010-09-27 11:12:25] - a: I'm sure I'm misinterpretting something in that statement, since it doesn't sound like it addresses some of the primary complaints of the pro-Net Neutrality crowd. -Paul
[2010-09-27 10:47:07] - paul: medically inaccurate!! awww -a aron
[2010-09-27 09:45:51] - *too. ~a
[2010-09-27 09:29:02] - ah i see what you mean now. well, hmmm. i think maybe the definition of "level of internet access" you are using might be to broad? ~a
[2010-09-27 09:14:28] - a: No, I'm not saying that they lie. It just sounded like the principle that you stated only prevented companies from throttling access if they didn't tell people that they were doing it. -Paul
[2010-09-25 20:35:46] - aaron & miguel: street fighter high -- the musical ( http://www.geekosystem.com/street-fighter-high-musical/ ) - Matt
[2010-09-24 17:15:07] - oh "say"? i guess you're suggesting that they lie? yes, NN would be susceptible to people lying. ~a
[2010-09-24 17:13:57] - "Couldn't Comcast just say their internet access (for everybody) is super fast for NBC sites and super slow for everything else? Would that be allowed?" nope. comcast would not be allowed to do that under NN. NBC could slow down its own traffic if it wanted to, or filter whatever it wanted on its own site, but comcast could not throttle the internet to non-NBC sites. ~a
[2010-09-24 16:27:26] - aaron: http://movies.ign.com/articles/112/1123250p1.html Good news. They're making a sequel to Human Centipede. -Paul
[2010-09-24 15:44:14] - aaron: Yeah, it starts as a relgion but becomes a culture, or even a race. It happens in other religions too. My biggest experience with it, obviously, is with people who are born into traditionally Catholic families and therefore consider themselves Catholic, while disagreeing with, or even hating major tenets of the faith or the institution itself. -- Xpovos
[2010-09-24 14:58:56] - reading up on david cross led me to an article on jewish atheism which seemed bizarre to me at first - aaron
[2010-09-24 12:32:03] - paul: yeah!! that would be a huge deal too. like if all cell phone companies offered tethering? so that you could run your home computer through your phone's internet? then i'd be more receptive to the "every ISP for themselves" mentality... as long as there's some guarantee of competition between ISPs i mean i think that's the issue at heart here - aaron
[2010-09-24 11:35:40] - aaron: Yeah, I agree that the limited choice aspect makes it a difficult sell. I do think it's becoming slightly less of an issue now, though, what with Fios expanding and the increasing use of smartphones. -Paul
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