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[2018-06-27 13:54:33] - I'm having long-term problems loading Google Sheets at work. Sometimes it loads old versions of documents, or doesn't load at all. The sheet for stocks I'm looking at right now has me back in first place. Is that accurate? -- Xpovs
[2018-06-27 12:42:01] - that is a fascinating solution to a real problem. also kinda sad though. basically, imagine if everyone had to watch the same tv show. or the same three movies. if your interests are varied, or specific in any way, you're kinda fucked. it would be like if blockbuster only had three movies to pick from. they'd change every week, but you still had to pick one of those three. basically redbox i guess. . . . and redbox seems horrible. ~a
[2018-06-27 11:52:00] - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/El_Paquete_Semanal https://www.wired.com/2017/07/inside-cubas-diy-internet-revolution/ the internet is heavily metered in cuba so once a month, someone illicitly downloads 1TB worth of data, "El Paquete" which is packaged and distributed physically so that cubans can keep up with movies, music, TV shows and non-political world news - aaron
[2018-06-27 10:47:41] - mig: sure. why not both. couldn't agree more. fascists who are elected officials who want to incite violence shouldn't be surprised if other elected officials also incite violence against them. ~a
[2018-06-27 10:44:22] - a: should clarify a bit. I was thinking less of the legal definition of inciting violence (though I seem to imply it heavily), but thinking more of inciting harassment. As for Trump, why not both I suppose? - mig
[2018-06-27 10:12:25] - the line for incitement has clearly moved. ~a
[2018-06-27 10:11:51] - mig: you literally quoted someone who said "push back" (which clearly refers to a non-physical action) but our current president was encouraging people to "knock the crap out of him" and "maybe he should have been roughed up" and "i'd like to punch him in the face" etc etc etc. ~a
[2018-06-27 10:08:51] - is half the shit trump said during the election considered incitement? ~a
[2018-06-27 10:06:19] - fun answer - nope. ~a
[2018-06-27 10:00:50] - fun question - does this statement from a elected official be considered incitement? - mig
[2018-06-27 10:00:21] - https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2018/06/25/maxine-waters-shows-why-the-sarah-huckabee-sanders-red-hen-story-is-extremely-important/ "If you see anybody from that Cabinet in a restaurant, in a department store, at a gasoline station, you get out and you create a crowd and you push back on them, and you tell them they’re not welcome anymore, anywhere." - mig
[2018-06-26 17:37:40] - a: My main criticism of the video is that the first 8 minutes are really solid, but sort of goes off on a tangent after that and ends up without any conclusion. I think a non-conclusion might be appropriate given the subject, but that it could've been a cleaner non-conclusion. Still, I thought it was good enough to share. -- Xpovos
[2018-06-26 16:52:50] - xpovos: i missed the "pay attention to the warnings" part haha. i listened to the video (at 2x) instead of watching it so i also probably missed some of the things that i was being warned against. i agreed with many of the conclusions, but don't know where to take it from there. ~a
[2018-06-26 16:05:55] - I think a full-blown repeal of CRA would result in a similar outcome, but on a larger scale. There'd be a big reaction, but much of it would just be noise. However, that noise would be extremely unpleasant to live through, particularly for people most at risk of being targeted after a CRA reversal. -- Xpovos
[2018-06-26 16:04:43] - It seems patently ridiculous, but we have some recent history that sheds some light. The election of Donald Trump resulted in a spike in racist-fueled activities. Some of these would have happened anyway, and some were likely counter-protesters using/attempting satire. But some was a genuine increase. There was outcry, particularly in the media, but not a lot of traction on either side. -- Xpovos
[2018-06-26 15:55:40] - I'm with Paul here. The idea that there would be widespread racial discrimination in establishments without any sort of economic consequences if CRA was suddenly repealed feels patently ridiculous to me. - mig
[2018-06-26 15:32:14] - I have to interject this. It's not on the subject (but might end up in a related place somehow) but I enjoyed this enough that I feel it's worth sharing. Video. Approx. ~20 minutes. Pay attention to the warnings. YMMV, of course, but they're not there for nothing. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lmsoVFCUN3Q -- Xpovos
[2018-06-26 14:09:02] - a: And I just don't see any evidence that those people exist, especially in light of the blowback they would receive. It just doesn't make sense to me that all these people are quiet and secretly racist but would be fine being public about it if the law changed. -Paul
[2018-06-26 14:07:11] - a: Which part? I seriously don't think that significant groups of Americans are so racist that they would deny service to certain groups at their establishments. Sure, I think groups like boy scouts and girl scouts or the NAACP would still exist, but I don't think all McDonalds are going to stop serving Mexicans or something. -Paul
[2018-06-26 13:58:40] - i don't think you actually believe that. i won't bite
you're attempting a proof by contradiction? ~a[2018-06-26 13:57:42] - Daniel: It does sound like a big difference is how much we think anti-discrimination laws protect minorities from undue burdens, yeah. -Paul
[2018-06-26 13:57:15] - a: So if there are people out there who legitimately want to deny service to blacks and would do it if it were legal, I don't see why they wouldn't loudly proclaim how they hate serving blacks now. -Paul
[2018-06-26 13:56:14] - a: I am saying that from a profit and financial standpoint, racists are better off because they could proclaim their preferences and get increased patronage from other racists, while still being "forced" to serve the people they don't want to. It seems like a win/win. -Paul
[2018-06-26 12:52:07] - yeah, that could be it. ~a
[2018-06-26 12:44:08] - Paul: I guess maybe thats the crux of this debate. You underestimate racism and perhaps we are overestimating it? -Daniel
[2018-06-26 12:38:35] - Paul: I think its possible you underestimate racism and the market's ability to correct it. -Daniel
[2018-06-26 12:36:57] - paul: i'm not sure how effective it is. you still are forced to serve black people and mexican people and middle eastern people. so being public about it doesn't have the same effect if it's illegal to turn away protected groups of people. ~a
[2018-06-26 12:35:08] - https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2018/6/26/17505902/supreme-court-korematsu-japanese-internment-camps In light of the Trump travel ban getting upheld, I guess this is a silver lining? As much as,"SCOTUS acknowledges Korematsu was a really bad ruling 50 years later" can be considered one. - mig
[2018-06-26 12:26:32] - a: You benefit in the same way as if it were legal and you were publicly racist. If you say, "I'm serving gays but am not happy about it", you get the "racist bump" if there is one, but you piss off everybody else. Functionally not too different from if you do this when it is legal. -Paul
[2018-06-26 12:25:16] - a: some discrimination was government mandated (i.e. Jim Crow). Some businesses discriminated because they were required to by law, not necessarily because they wanted to (though very likely some would have preferred to). - mig
[2018-06-26 12:17:57] - "Either you care about what other people think or you don't". No those aren't the only two possibilities. If it's illegal, you don't benefit from being publicly racist. ~a
[2018-06-26 12:16:25] - Yes I think they would stay in business. I think some customers would leave and some would come because of the descrimination but even if they lost some business some owners would do it anyways. ~a
[2018-06-26 12:15:30] - Considering how much the restaurant industry is struggling and how the white population is decreasing as a percentage of the populace, I just don't know how any significant number of restaurants can say, "no thanks" to huge swaths of the population and figure they can stay in business. -Paul
[2018-06-26 12:10:51] - a: Why be quiet? Why not loudly make your case for allowing discrimination? Either you care about what other people think or you don't, the law doesn't really have much to do with that. -Paul
[2018-06-26 12:09:46] - a: So all these people who secretly want to bar blacks or women from their restaurants... they're just happily serving them now because the law says so? I dunno, I have a hard time buying that. If you're willing to put up with the huge societal backlash from saying "whites only", then I find it hard to believe they wouldn't at least be complaining about the law now. -Paul
[2018-06-26 12:07:49] - a: Okay, even if I grant you that, do you think those places would stay in business long? Even in the south, if there was blatant discrimination in that some restaurants didn't serve black people, don't you think they would also lose a lot of customers? -Paul
[2018-06-26 12:05:08] - i think the gender pay-gap would increase. i think these new laws would embolden people to continue to be violent against certain races and genders (but moreso). should i go on? ~a
[2018-06-26 12:03:32] - i think this would cause poverty in black-america to increase past it's already high levels. ~a
[2018-06-26 12:02:05] - if we're also rolling back eeo laws, i think a lot of people would have to take much lower-paying jobs. ~a
[2018-06-26 12:01:17] - i think there would be outrage, but i also think it would still happen. ~a
[2018-06-26 12:00:55] - i think some (possibly different restaurants) would stop serving people from central-america. ~a
[2018-06-26 12:00:23] - "if we ended all these laws which made it illegal for businesses to discriminate. What's your (reasonable) doomsday scenario?" oh jesus, i see. i do honestly believe lots of restaurants across the country would stop serving black people. especially in the south. no i'm not joking. i think a lot of restaurants (possibly different restaurants) would stop serving middle eastern people. i think that would just be the start. ~a
[2018-06-26 11:58:03] - a: I'm saying today, as in June 26, 2018, if we ended all these laws which made it illegal for businesses to discriminate. What's your (reasonable) doomsday scenario? Because even the great boogey-man Chick-Fil-A that everybody likes to paint as homophobic has been serving gay customers and I doubt they roll that back. -Paul
[2018-06-26 11:55:49] - a: I'm talking about today, I believe we've already fought the battle over whether or not the government would've helped people being discriminated against 200 years ago.
-Paul[2018-06-26 11:55:36] - paul: because "today" we have the civil rights act of 1964, so lots of companies that went afoul of "inconveniencing" black people have had trouble staying in business in most parts of the country since 1964. though i have heard that some companies get around this by making policies that skirt the law. and selectively enforcing those policies on people who aren't white. ~a
[2018-06-26 11:52:20] - paul: "If you can point me to a situation" how big of a sample set can i pull from? will you let me pick examples from all time? or just today? ~a
[2018-06-26 11:38:40] - a: We're extrapolating about these horrible doomsday scenarios of people not being able to eat based on one couple not able to get a wedding cake (and only a wedding cake) at one specific store. -Paul
[2018-06-26 11:37:10] - a: I would argue we don't need a law against either. If you can point me to a situation where somebody is inconvenienced by more than simply having to call another store or visit another website or drive an extra half mile (or even inconvenienced at all) because of something inherent about themselves, then I will reconsider. -Paul
[2018-06-26 11:27:19] - xpovos: i agree with that. ~a
[2018-06-26 11:25:56] - a: Absolutely, it's all about the context. 100%. Because people disagree about what is right. And sometimes even about what is "nice." -- Xpovos
[2018-06-26 11:25:47] - paul: i'd agree. but, i don't think we need a law protecting that. there haven't been hundreds of years of persecution of (say) libertarians that needs some laws protected them from shitty lives. ~a
[2018-06-26 11:24:06] - a: Right, and I think discriminating against somebody who you disagree with politically is being a dick too. -Paul
[2018-06-26 11:23:40] - xpovos: i probably need some context. but without context, i'd say "yes", sure. ~a
[2018-06-26 11:20:14] - a: Are there times when it is more important to be right than to be nice? -- Xpovos
[2018-06-26 11:18:20] - paul: nah, i don't think disobeying the law is "being a dick". laws are dumb. i think discriminating against (say) african americans or homosexual couples because of your beliefs is "being a dick". ~a
[2018-06-26 11:18:07] - a: I think these two situations are VERY similar and I don't see a good reason why somebody would try to argue that they are completely different. The perception to me is that one is discriminating against somebody they don't want to associate with and don't like and the other isn't. -Paul
[2018-06-26 11:16:32] - a: I'm saying the law is dumb here too. It's arbitrary and inconsistent and should be changed. I think saying that these two instances are "totally different" because one is legal and the other isn't (and that's only because of the differences in state laws and a possibly wrong interpretation of a SCOTUS ruling) is missing the point. -Paul
[2018-06-26 11:15:15] - a: The law is an imperfect thing made by flawed individuals through a screwed up process. Just because "it's the law" doesn't mean it's right or logical or makes sense. The law says drinking yourself to death with alcohol is fine, but smoking a single joint of marijuana is illegal. The law is dumb. -Paul
[2018-06-26 11:13:52] - a: "you can't just ignore the law. your beliefs are irrelevant" On one hand, I understand what you're saying, but on the other hand, I think it's a cop out and a flimsy excuse. The law is also (apparently) that we separate families of people trying to come into this country. Does that mean our beliefs are irrelevant and we should follow the law and stop being a dick? -Paul
[2018-06-26 10:59:46] - paul: regarding the "SCOTUS ruling" you referenced i'm pretty sure they didn't rule in such a way to solve the general issue. it's still open for state laws to interpret. (which was what this case was about: a state law. colorado law) ~a
[2018-06-26 10:59:25] - paul: yes i agree they both took actions, sorry. still, one of those actions is protected and the other is not. ~a
[2018-06-26 10:58:50] - paul: yes, i agree there is infringement all around. but one of our infringements is protected and the other infringement is not. when the civil rights laws come into play, you can't just ignore the law. your beliefs are irrelevant. you either make the fucking cake, or serve the black family, or whatever, and stop being a dick, or you close up shop. ~a
[2018-06-26 10:58:31] - a: Also, I dispute B. Both of those people took actions. Neither "just continued to exist". The baker didn't go into the couple's home and demand they stop existing. They just didn't want to make a cake for a specific event. If anything, the Red Hen is the one that is more punishing the mere existence because they apparently didn't want her existing on their premises. -Paul
[2018-06-26 10:56:18] - a: "if your beliefs cause you to take *actions* that infringe on other people's lives" There's infringing going on both ways. What if I came to you and asked you to design software that would cause all the world's nukes to go off (I know it's a dumb hypothetical, but just go with me for a second). If you turn me down and I sue you, aren't I infringing on you? -Paul
[2018-06-26 10:50:11] - paul: yes
~a[2018-06-26 10:49:39] - paul: A. i don't care what you're comfortable with. if your beliefs cause you to take *actions* that infringe on other people's lives, then the law can (and often does) step in. B. one of those people took an action. one of those people just continued to exist. if you can't see the difference i'm at a loss C (bonus). i'd at least see an argument for religion, i'll admit that one has slightly more consistency issues. ~a
[2018-06-26 10:48:37] - a: Okay, so if the gay couple were offered comped cupcakes and then asked to leave the store that makes it all good?
-Paul[2018-06-26 10:47:50] - a: I understand not all beliefs are equivalent in the eyes of the law, but (A) I'm a little uncomfortable with the government deciding which beliefs are basically allowed and which aren't and (B) I don't see "I don't want to make a cake celebrating something I think is morally wrong" and "I don't want to serve somebody who works for somebody who I think is morally wrong" is all that different. -Paul
[2018-06-26 10:46:58] - paul: they were served "cheese plates" that were put "on the house" when she was asked to leave. ~a
[2018-06-26 10:45:06] - paul: meh, you can ignore my last message. i can't seem to find a source for that. ~a
[2018-06-26 10:39:44] - paul: your facts are incorrect on the red hen. they were served. ~a
[2018-06-26 10:39:34] - paul: "because of their beliefs" not all beliefs are equivalent in the eyes of the law. nor should they be. ~a
[2018-06-26 10:37:53] - a: And from what I understand, the baker was fine serving the gay couple, they just didn't want to make a wedding cake for a gay wedding. -Paul
[2018-06-26 10:37:43] - Daniel: There's actually some strong evidence (not proof, evidence) that people are born with built-in tendencies towards R/D preferences. -- Xpovos
[2018-06-26 10:37:22] - a: I look at it and see it as like 90% similar. They're both private businesses that are refusing to do something because of their beliefs. Honestly, I see the Red Hen one as being a little worse because they flat out refused to serve her at all. It's not like she ordered the "family separation bread basket" that they refused to make... -Paul
[2018-06-26 10:36:04] - a: So... they are totally different because one is illegal and the other isn't? Actually, I'm not even sure if the baker case is illegal anymore after the SCOTUS ruling... -Paul
[2018-06-26 10:08:36] - they are totally different, yes. the law treats them differently. and the law should treat them differently. they're both kinda dumb though, so they're similar in that way. ~a
[2018-06-25 14:24:30] - a: So I can't figure out how it's so totally different and where exactly the line is drawn in terms of legality for you. What's the rationale for allowing businesses to discriminate based on people who had abortions versus by religion? -Paul
[2018-06-25 14:20:42] - a: It seems arbitrary because you started off talking about it was "totally different" and talking about the difference between choice and what you're born with... But then after clarifying some, it sounds like you still think both are wrong and that even discriminating on some "choices" should be illegal too. -Paul
[2018-06-25 13:41:04] - paul: civil rights act of 1964 does not seem arbitrary to me. tons of people were not allowed service in a lot of places in the 50s. it actually sounded pretty horrible. would things have gotten "better" for those people without the civil rights act? maybe. but maybe not. ~a
[2018-06-25 13:39:07] - a: Okay, I guess I understand a little more, but it all seems a little arbitrary to me... -Paul
[2018-06-25 12:59:17] - paul: "a hospital wanted to refuse service to somebody who has had an abortion in the past, that should be legal?" ew. legal. "can restaurants refuse to serve Muslims?" civil rights act of 1964 considers them a protected class. i'm inclined to agree even if it disagrees(ish) with some of the things i've said before. ~a
[2018-06-25 12:29:06] - Daniel: Okay, so you're not necessarily in agreement with Adrian. You think it's more on a case by case basis? -Paul
[2018-06-25 12:28:14] - a: Okay, so if a hospital wanted to refuse service to somebody who has had an abortion in the past, that should be legal? Or, like Miguel said, since religion is a choice, can restaurants refuse to serve Muslims? -Paul
[2018-06-25 12:14:57] - daniel: i think where it becomes a slippery slope is where you're like "anybody who voted for trump screwed over a lot of people". and then banning "trump voters". (still legal, as it should be), but a less obvious grey area. ~a
[2018-06-25 12:14:25] - daniel: you can choose your religion. Is discrimination based on religion ok then? - mig
[2018-06-25 12:10:40] - Paul: though clearly the more generous approach is to forgive and second chances and all that. -Daniel
[2018-06-25 12:10:19] - Paul: but discriminating on someone like Madoff where you know he screwed a lot of people maybe thats not so bad. -Daniel
[2018-06-25 12:09:58] - Paul: I don't think there is a blanket right / not right for discriminating on people's choices. Its probably going to depend on the choice you are discriminating on. Like if someone decided to not serve people without shoes. That seems semi reasonable because you can generally easy fix it and it seems like a safety thing but its still their choice. -Daniel
[2018-06-25 12:08:06] - paul: yeah, it's legal (and it should be) to discriminate based on someone's choices. i think we've been clear on that though. ~a
[2018-06-25 12:06:45] - Daniel: And by "it", I mean discriminating based on somebody's choices. -Paul
[2018-06-25 12:06:19] - Daniel: Okay, so it's not "right", but it should be legal? Is that what Adrian (and maybe you too) are saying? -Paul
[2018-06-25 12:01:39] - Paul: Adrian has said it as well, what you are vs what you choose. I think there can be room for a grey area but its pretty clear distinction to me the are vs choose part of it. -Daniel
[2018-06-25 12:00:30] - a: I think R's are a label for a group (maybe class? maybe not? I think that would be a very semantic distinction of people based on definition of class) that have selected / chosen something. I don't think people are born R's or are inherently R's. I do get your grey area though. It does seem simplistic to deny service to all R's but denying service to Miller because he enjoys seeing photos of kids cry seems ok to me. -Daniel
[2018-06-25 11:59:17] - Daniel: (Obviously a little hyperbolic, but that's kinda the implication). So I'm just wondering why this isn't equally bad in that respect? I guess I feel like I'm getting mixed messages because Adrian said it was completely different but also seems to be saying they are almost equally bad? -Paul
[2018-06-25 11:58:07] - Daniel: Sure, and I can understand how that can be somebody's opinion. But it feels like whenever we discuss issues like the baker and the gay wedding cake, it immediately goes to: "Businesses can't be allowed to discriminate otherwise nobody would sell black people food and they would all die". -Paul
[2018-06-25 11:49:40] - paul: "Both? Same degree? Only one?" yeah both are pretty wrong, imo. there is some grey area though. if i'm kicking shs out, not because she's a republican, but because she did something specifically wrong, i think there's a grey area of sorts. as daniel suggests. ~a
[2018-06-25 11:47:37] - daniel: are "republicans" an entire class of people? ~a
[2018-06-25 11:39:05] - Paul: I think the idea is that you can be upset / mad / dislike at a specific someone for what they have done but if you are mad / upset / dislike an entire class of people based on what they are regardless of what they do then thats bad. -Daniel
[2018-06-25 11:25:20] - a: Okay, so one should be illegal and the other not. How about morally (or ethically or whatever) wrong? Both? Same degree? Only one? -Paul
[2018-06-25 11:10:09] - paul: both? nah, not really. i think protected classes is where i draw the line on the law. Civil Rights Act of 1964? maybe update it to include homosexual people? or don't? i dunno. maybe include transgender people? or don't? i dunno. ~a
[2018-06-25 11:00:09] - a: Hmmm, so both are morally wrong? Do you think both should be illegal? -Paul
[2018-06-25 10:57:43] - wow. the copy-paste double-signature. ~a
[2018-06-25 10:57:08] - paul: no i don't think it's ok. i'm actually pretty pissed at the restaurant. it seems ethically dirty. shs is a liar, and a bad person, but i still don't think the restaurant should have done this. it's not illegal though. (apparently dc does have a law against it, which probably makes sense, but virginia does not). ~a ~a
[2018-06-25 10:54:02] - a: Okay, so discrimination in terms of serving people is fine as long as it's not based on their genes? I'm actually not trying to be snarky, I'm trying to understand your exact stance, because to me this doesn't seem totally different. -Paul
[2018-06-25 10:52:11] - come on now, you can't even begin to think there's any similarity between something you're born with and how you treat other people. you're definitely on the hook for the policies you make and the policies you enforce. the genes you got a birth, man? seriously? ~a
[2018-06-25 10:50:45] - paul: totally different. ~a
[2018-06-25 10:50:31] - yeah weirdly enough though i think you took the lead on friday? i didn't notice that on friday but this morning (8am?) i noticed you were winning by 1-2%. ~a
[2018-06-25 10:49:45] - Actually, I'm curious what people here think of the Red Hen thing, especially if you think bakers/florists should be required to make cakes/bouquets for gay weddings. Same thing? Totally different? Something else? -Paul
[2018-06-25 10:45:17] - It sucks re-taking the lead in the stock market challenge only because your portfolio is only down 1.8% as opposed to other people's. -Paul
[2018-06-25 10:44:39] - https://www.cnbc.com/2018/06/25/us-stock-futures-trade-tumult-continues-to-rattle-investors.html Stop, stop. I've had enough "winning".
-Paul[2018-06-22 15:36:46] - Xpovos: I believe so. Honestly, I kinda wanted to run the first one for a few more years too just to see if I could ever overtake Mr. Bitcoin. Maybe I'll do my own tracking. -Paul
[2018-06-22 15:22:31] - The stock market challenge is a year-long thing, right? So you're just starting another one and having two running at once? -- Xpovos
[2018-06-22 09:58:12] - a: Hehe. It's weird, because they seem fairly consistent. They often seem to drop on earnings (because of poor guidance) and then slowly make it back and more afterwards. -Paul
[2018-06-22 09:53:59] - rht no! i always seem to get screwed by red hat. i buy and sell with the worst possible timing. ~a
[2018-06-21 15:48:19] - https://reason.com/blog/2018/06/21/aclu-leaked-memo-free-speech ACLU might be wavering on defending freedom of speech... -Paul
[2018-06-21 14:57:26] - "resulting in a much closer pass" yeah, i'm assuming the bicyclist wasn't drifting either way here. and that the pass was "closer"
i.e. less than three feet. ~a[2018-06-21 14:53:04] - and the fact he has a car-horn with him also confuses shit
~a[2018-06-21 14:53:01] - a: There's the characteristic bicycle sway to the video, though. In the cop's defense, as I re-watch the video, the cyclist seems to drift to the left as he anticipates the parked cars ahead. The cop seems to anticipate him not drifting or perhaps going (illegally) onto the sidewalk at that point, and drove according to that assumption, resulting in a much closer pass. -- Xpovos
[2018-06-21 14:52:28] - yeah i hear you. rewatching the video, it's not obvious he's on a bicycle until much later in the video. ~a
[2018-06-21 14:50:32] - a: His helmet in the reflection looks like a motocross style, which probably also affected my assumption. -- Xpovos
[2018-06-21 14:48:22] - oh yeah, it's a bicycle. ~a
[2018-06-21 14:48:00] - /s/motorcycle/bike It's not entirely clear and could be either. Based on speeds I assumed motorcycle at first, but I know bicycles can get trucking too. -- Xpovos
[2018-06-21 14:47:52] - xpovos: by motorcycle you mean bicycle, right? actually, now that you meantion it, i'm sure you're not allowed to pass a motorcycle like this either. but different laws are different. ~a
[2018-06-21 14:47:05] - xpovos: agreed. even though the person on the bike was a dick, i think a reprimand would be expected. ~a
[2018-06-21 14:46:29] - a: I think the video itself is also a good example of how road rage happens and why it's such a problem. And cops aren't immune either, even though the man on the motorcycle was obviously feeling it worse. Bring on the autonomous vehicles. They don't get road rage. -- Xpovos
[2018-06-21 14:44:32] - a: So in this case, even if the video is inflammatory and counter-productive, I'd expect and want the local commissioner to be involved and reprimand his officer. -- Xpovos
[2018-06-21 14:43:50] - a: I've found that cops regularly disobey the rules of the road. They are permitted, and even expected to, in certain circumstances, but I think that results in them being lax in other situations. This is in spite of their more thorough knowledge in most cases, than the average person. Honestly, I think a lot of good could be done in censuring police who violate the law, particularly when in the administration of their duties. -- Xpovos
[2018-06-21 14:42:30] - a: O
[2018-06-21 14:31:11] - paul: most roads use 11-feet widths. if a 6-foot car (or a bicyclist centered with 3-feet on each side) is centered in the lane, you basically can't fit a second car in that width. it's just, like math, man. ~a
[2018-06-21 14:29:26] - paul: a typical car is about 6 feet wide. that's 3-feet on each side. i imagine squeezing two cars (one centered on the lane), and the cop-car to its left, but still mostly-in the lane, would have hit each-other, or close. no? ~a
[2018-06-21 14:19:51] - paul: if the person on the bike had been in a car and the cop had passed that closely, it would have been ridiculously close. two-car-widths can't fit in that tiny lane. ~a
[2018-06-21 14:19:11] - paul: i imagine two cars trying to use the same lane at the same time. if the bicyclist was surrounded by a car-body, would you be able to fit both the cop-car and the car-sized-bicyclist in the lane at the same time passing this closely? my thoughts are no. he was definitely not 3-feet away. if you can reach out and touch the car, you're too close. ~a
[2018-06-21 14:16:58] - "I've probably passed cyclists that close before" probably, no, you have not. at least not when you and/or they were moving at that speed. ~a
[2018-06-21 14:02:38] - map for reference. south-dekota's makes the most sense, i've been passed by people going 40+ mph, and 3-feet would scare the bejesus out of you, i guarantee. having a different law for different speeds is confusing, but makes the most logical sense to people who wouldn't know. ~a
[2018-06-21 13:58:58] - "before the line disappears" when the lane comes back, he's entirely in the same lane as the cyclist. ~a
[2018-06-21 13:58:31] - "it didn't look like the cyclist was in much danger" maybe it's the perspective, but i disagree here too. if someone passes you within three feet it can be terrifying. it's the reason we have the three-foot rule in most states. ~a
[2018-06-21 13:57:51] - a: I guess it's hard for me to tell. The car looks like it's halfway in the turn lane before the line disappears, and it doesn't look to me like he's too close to the cyclist (not necessarily by law, but just in my opinion). I'm sure you (and him) could be right that the cop was too close by the law, but I've probably passed cyclists that close before. -Paul
[2018-06-21 13:55:00] - "move over law" (for reference) ~a
[2018-06-21 13:54:17] - paul: no, i disagree. he does not make an attempt. he was too fast and too close throughout his pass. if you can't pass safely, (according to minnesota and virginia law) you're supposed to wait. i think if the cop had been on the side of the road, on a traffic-stop, and someone buzzed him in a car at less than three feet, he'd probably attempt a wreckless-driving charge or disobeying their (MN) "Move Over Law". ~a
[2018-06-21 13:46:50] - a: Any point to watching beyond the 30 second mark? It looks like the cop was making an attempt (he appears to go slightly into the turn lane before passing) and it didn't look like the cyclist was in much danger, so I guess I don't quite understand the anger on his part. Like you said, it seems like he was out to make a point. -Paul
[2018-06-21 13:43:07] - i don't think this guy cares about changing the cop's behavior, or getting his point across, all he cares about is "talking truth to power". i'll grant what he's doing is pretty fucking counterproductive. anyway, thoughts? ~a
[2018-06-21 13:41:43] - well it's been almost six months since i posted the last one of these, so let's try again.
ok so this is a particularly inflammatory video (very loud and nsfw audio, video is totally fine). lots of "assholes" yelled at a cop for passing too closely and too quickly to a bicyclist. the law in most states (including this one, minnesota) is "3 feet" when passing a cyclist. ~a[2018-06-21 13:08:03] - Paul: Do I have a new RD blog theme? "Dun-da-dun-da-dah Inspector Tru-ump." -- Xpovos
[2018-06-21 12:53:25] - paul: have your picks in by the 25th. no changes after the 29th at 16:00 eastern. ~a
[2018-06-21 12:51:21] - paul: sure. i created a new tab. ~a
[2018-06-21 11:30:35] - Are we doing a new stock market challenge starting July 1st with rules similar to what I laid out below? -Paul
[2018-06-21 11:26:24] - Xpovos: I'm willing to grant an idiot savant type thing similar to Inspector Gadget where he sometimes stumbles onto good solutions to things in spite of himself.
-Paul[2018-06-21 10:43:39] - Paul: I'll split the difference. I think it might be unintentional playing. This is just how he's gotten through life and it's worked out well enough for him. So he has a skillset that he doesn't even realize is a skillset. But I'll grant that even that may be giving him too much credit. -- Xpovos
[2018-06-21 09:57:55] - Xpovos: I understand that there is some evidence that Trump might be playing some of us and/or the media, but I find it's usually pretty safe to just attribute his actions to a combination of ignorance and narcissism.
-Paul[2018-06-21 09:09:07] - I might have set an all time record for shortest time between not even thinking about whether something existed to being disappointed that it didn't when I found out there's no easy way to install Steam on a Raspberry Pi.
-Paul[2018-06-20 22:53:24] - aaron: Thanks! I'm looking at maybe getting a Raspberry Pi 3 B+ since I think the original Pi might be a but under-powered. Don't need N64 emulation. NES and SNES would do, I think. Just not sure if I need to spend $50 on it. -Paul
[2018-06-20 16:59:49] - mig: Yeah that executive order blows my theory out of the water. Thanks, Trump! -- Xpovos
[2018-06-20 16:44:11] - xpovos: I mean, maybe? But there comes a point where he does care about the blowback apparently, because he finally backed down (which he pretty much never does). At that point there goes most of the pressure for congress to act. If this was his master plan, it was a pretty poorly thought out one. - mig
[2018-06-20 15:06:50] - yeah haha, i saw that. he's having a lot of problems with democrats, miguel. ~a
[2018-06-20 14:58:23] - a: this time it actually looks like he is backing down. - mig
[2018-06-20 14:24:17] - you give trump too much credit. he's playing damage control by lying. he (really sessions) did some shitty stuff and got caught. instead of backing down he does what he always does: make everybody think it was on purpose and doubles down. it'll work as well as usual: his opponents will cry out, but nothing will change. ~a
[2018-06-20 14:23:00] - And that's what he wanted all along. In the meantime his 30% base is whoopin' and hollerin. Many of the worst of that element are cheering for racist reasons, but others are cheering for a law and order stand, even if it is morally repugnant. Not EVERYONE is outraged by this. And that should be eye-opening. -- Xpovos
[2018-06-20 14:21:39] - Time for an unpopular opinion. Trump is playing everyone, again. What does he want? Comprehensive immigration reform legislation. Congress won't pass it. So he "works to rule" in the worst ways he can imagine to make it politically intolerable for his opponents. They attack him, why should he care? He's shown he has no shame. Eventually they pass a legislative response, because that's the only thing that fixes this. -- Xpovos
[2018-06-20 12:50:34] - "He keeps doing things that ought to sink other politicians" But how much of that is the vulgarness of his personality vs. the actual substance of his policies? This current immigration debacle is certainly one where the substance of his policies has been actually repulsive, but I feel like it's more of a reaction to Trump's personality than anything else. - mig
[2018-06-20 11:34:25] - daniel: i have loaded up several N64 games; most of them simply do not run at all. The New Tetris runs at about 25% speed - aaron
[2018-06-20 11:24:21] - aaron: I have retropie set up and I think I have N64 games on it. I'd have to check, mostly do SNES/NES/Genesis on it. -Daniel
[2018-06-20 11:14:25] - paul: yes it was a raspberry pi. i ordered this raspberry pi 3: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01CD5VC92/ref=oh_aui_search_detailpage?ie=UTF8&psc=1 it plays all NES, SNES and Genesis games AOK with retropie. Arcade games are hit or miss. N64 games don't work. - aaron
[2018-06-20 11:10:35] - The idea of needing a "shocking" event to jar people to resist but instead just taking little steps on the path seems relevant because I always wonder what it would take for me to go protest something and I think in my head I do something like the article describes where I say well I didn't protest X so is Y enough to get me out of the house? -Daniel
[2018-06-20 11:09:50] - http://press.uchicago.edu/Misc/Chicago/511928.html Interesting read. I don't think Trump is Hitler but the idea of incrementalness I thnk applies. He keeps doing things that ought to sink other politicians but since we have already dealt with everything before somehow it doesn't seem as bad. -Daniel
[2018-06-20 10:09:02] - the data is a statistical sampling of months between 1871-2016. my fork of the code is here ~a
[2018-06-20 10:07:42] - paul/daniel: i made a graph in the vein of this one that studies stocks vs bonds for different time-horizons. mine looks at the portfolio ratio of those assets. ~a
[2018-06-20 10:01:16] - i know we've been over this. sorry for bringing it up again. i think presidents deserve at least partial credit for the economy. ~a
[2018-06-20 09:54:56] - a: Yes, yes. We've been over this. I was discussing how much credit to give him, not how good the market was. -Paul
[2018-06-20 09:09:12] - paul: the 2017 stock market performance was barely above average. 10% of zero is still zero.
clinton had four *consecutive* years that were all better. obama had a year that was a whopping 1.5x better. reagan even had a few years that were better. ~a[2018-06-19 19:30:52] - aaron: Gurkie set up Retropie on my old Raspberry Pi and I think it has some performance issues on even NES games (or maybe I just suck at them now) and so I'm going down rabbit holes of reading about retropie on PS3's or Xbox360's and maybe upgrading to a Raspberry Pi 3... -Paul
[2018-06-19 19:29:48] - aaron: What was the device that you had brought to Dave's bachelor party that had all those games on it? Was it running retropie? Was it a raspberry pi? -Paul
[2018-06-19 19:14:43] - aaron: Yeah, urban areas are often pretty Democratic, but it is surprising that an area south of Northern Virginia would be more Democratic. -Paul
[2018-06-19 15:12:26] - paul: at first i was like "wow i'm surprised a city in southern virginia would name a school after a democratic president," but apparently richmond was more democrat-leaning than fairfax county in the 2016 presidential election (78.6% democrat vs 64.4%) - aaron
[2018-06-19 14:58:52] - https://twitter.com/i/moments/1009121874561810432 Wow, that's a big turnaround. For a moment, I thought it was referring to the school in Springfield. -Paul
[2018-06-19 12:55:13] - paul: i don't think this is racist, though it might depend on if you consider "western" a race. as an aside, tae-yong isn't the first person to make this conclusion/decision. it was used in the 60s by andrew young when he decided who should wear what at a march in alabama with mlk jr. young and the other organizers were worried king would get shot. ~a
[2018-06-19 12:45:57] - paul: sort of an edge case. if the south korean manager was "timothy brown" instead of "shin tae-yong", then it would definitely be racist. (half joking) - aaron
[2018-06-19 11:28:47] - paul: haha. nsfw? ~a
[2018-06-19 10:56:02] - https://twitter.com/i/moments/1008859235545825280 I can't tell anymore. Is this racist? -Paul
[2018-06-19 10:38:23] - Also, speaking of nsfw... that title freaks me out whenever I check the message board at work. -Paul
[2018-06-19 10:36:56] - a: Remember when I wondered if Trump should get like 10% credit for the good stock market performance of a few months ago? I give him 200% credit for the crappy performance now.
-Paul[2018-06-18 16:10:06] - a: I've never watched an episode, actually. But, yeah, I can just imagine the phone call I'd get if one of my kids wore that backpack. Me, in particular. That'd be fun. -- Xpovos
[2018-06-18 10:32:12] - a: I'm not sure how much trouble I would get for sending that with Alex to daycare but I'm pretty sure it would be real. -Daniel
[2018-06-18 09:51:40] - daniel/paul/xpovos: appropriate for children. btw, great show. season 4 had that lady from tj2000. ~a
[2018-06-16 13:37:13] - a: I think it had to do with how many previous picks we could re-use. I suggested something like we could re-use picks from 2+ challenges ago (so no re-using from the current challenge, but we could re-use from the first one) but no more than 2 picks from the same challenge, if that makes sense. -Paul
[2018-06-16 12:08:31] - paul: you said you wanted to do a second challenge. now is the time. q2 is ending very soon. i forget what rules you wanted to use for this challenge. i searched the message board and couldn't find it. all i found was the start time was the end of june. ~a
[2018-06-15 10:38:39] - it's not irrational
~a[2018-06-15 09:45:28] - a: Honestly, that kinda (irrationally) makes me worried that the market is getting overheated. So many stocks are up sharply in the past 6-12 months! -Paul
[2018-06-15 09:44:38] - a: Wow. Reminds me of when I checked out AMD about a year ago after thinking they were on the verge of bankruptcy for forever. I wonder what's propelling the stock? I know there was a lot of hype around their online video streaming service. -Paul
[2018-06-14 19:04:41] - paul: check out the 1y chart for wwe. i had no idea. i guess maybe i'm getting older, but i feel wwe is having a less effect on the lives around me compared to 20 years ago. it's beating nvda, nflx, aapl, twtr. it's even tied for gbtc over the last 1y. ~a
[2018-06-14 18:04:18] - it's non-intuitive, but i agree with it in concept. ~a
[2018-06-14 18:02:43] - daniel/paul: to explain it more further, the penalty-method does *not* pay any roth-conversion (income-taxes) during the "waiting period" window of 5-years. instead it uses taxable only for five years, then pays the normal-income-taxes plus 10% penalty after the window is up. ~a
[2018-06-14 17:58:55] - daniel: to address your first thing, he has a spreadsheet you can download (though he grabs your email address to get it, so make sure you use mailinator or something). to address your second thing, *no*. he definitely had a "waiting period" window of 5 years of taxable-only in every situation to make it "fair". ~a
[2018-06-14 16:48:21] - a: I've been rolling this around some. Is the theory to just take the 10% penalty every year until 59.5 instead of taxable for the first five years + roth ladder for the remainder? Or still doing a roth ladder and just taking the 10% penalty for the first five years. -Daniel
[2018-06-14 14:38:19] - paul: yes, i'm just lucky there's no way to lose money in the stock market! - aaron
[2018-06-14 13:59:30] - https://i.redd.it/1x4f04p10x311.jpg i'm having a breakdown - aaron
[2018-06-14 12:53:14] - a: no i don't believe so. - mig
[2018-06-14 12:39:28] - Kinda crazy to look at my returns in the Stock Market Challenge this year so far versus last year. Last year was a little better, but so much more evenly spaced out, with my bottom 4 picks averaging 52%. This year I'm being carried by TWTR, as my bottom 4 are averaging 1% (worse than Daniel and almost as bad as a poopy fart). -Paul
[2018-06-14 10:03:50] - a: Reading through he talks about being 45 and the options you have to withdraw 9k a year. Then it has a graph that maybe I'm not understanding, then it says lets skip to 60 and see how much money there is! But I'm not sure I understand what happened in those 15 years in between. -Daniel
[2018-06-14 10:02:29] - a: I'm confused for a different reason than Paul. I did click the link and read it but I don't see where he goes through the process of actually withdrawing money early, paying the penalty, and still have that be the better option. He certainly talks about that but I didn't see the math for it. -Daniel
[2018-06-14 09:59:13] - paul: yes, you do. sorry. i said something not entirely correct. you still have to pay taxes on the early-withdrawn money, but . . . you don't have to pay as much taxes. anyways, it's very-non-intuitive. you'd think the *extra* 10% penalty would be worse than just doing a roth-ladder. and it's not. ~a
[2018-06-14 09:37:36] - a: Wait, I'm confused (maybe because I didn't click the link?). What are you doing with the money withdrawn early from traditional (401k/ira)? Because don't you have to pay taxes on that (in addition to the penalty) unless you put it into another pre-tax, tax advantaged account? -Paul
[2018-06-14 09:31:58] - new finance topic: 10% penalty for early withdrawal of traditional (401k/ira). apparently it can be more efficient to pay the 10% penalty than pay the tax to convert it to a roth for the purposes of early-withdrawal. so weird. link. i plugged in my numbers and it applies to me as well. ~a
[2018-06-13 16:28:23] - mig: do you remember her on the tjxc team? (she graduated in 2000, so would have been a junior when we were seniors). ~a
[2018-06-13 16:14:02] - aaron: regarding the xkcd link. i usually use other peoples' phone numbers for loyalty cards (rei, i use my old work phone number, rite aid i use my wife's phone number, pretty much everywhere else i can use my parents' phone number). so they're probably getting some noisy data. noisier than if they just use my CC# and the address associated with that card. i'm not sure why they don't just use that. ~a
[2018-06-13 15:50:08] - aaron: Yeah I'm definitely no where near that many games of race. I'm probably not even to triple digits. -Daniel
[2018-06-13 15:33:19] - https://xkcd.com/2006/ i liked today's XKCD. it is about loyalty cards - aaron
[2018-06-13 15:33:00] - daniel: i have played, without exaggeration, about 800 games of RftG. i have improved over when I had only playd 400 games of RftG. miguel has played a lot, a lot, a lot of games of RftG as well. you have just played less than other people. it is a game where you make a lot of "microdecisions" and it is hard to trace your score back to a mistake you made - aaron
[2018-06-13 15:30:26] - I still don't totally know why but I'm BAD at race for the galaxy. -Daniel
[2018-06-13 15:22:18] - a: ha ha
but i am bad! i taught jessica to play 3 games on saturday and i lost 2 of them. - aaron[2018-06-13 15:04:19] - aaron: "experts ... will have no fun regardless"
says the guy who has a weekly game night. ~a[2018-06-13 15:02:41] - i am sometimes frustrated after turn 4 in a digital game of Race For The Galaxy when i am losing 7-20, whereas in a real life game, i would be having fun because i would not take time to do the math - aaron
[2018-06-13 15:02:20] - whereas, if a GUI just shows, you, "your score is 36; his score is 76," the game is probably less fun for you. similarly, the digital version of RFTG displays your scores so you do not have to calculate them -- which is fine, there is no hidden information, it removes tedium. but personally, i think this also detracts from the fun - aaron
[2018-06-13 14:59:22] - so for example, when playing dominion -- it is still a perfectly balanced game with a point tracker, and possibly more deep. but, it can be more fun to play from a losing situation, or with the uncertainty of "wow... am i winning? did i count the provinces right? how many gardens did he buy? how many cards are in his deck? i forget. should i buy a duchy or a province?" personally, i think this tension is fun - aaron
[2018-06-13 14:58:06] - mig: i agree, when playing online you cannot see what the other players are doing. i agree if a game's *balance* is contingent on hidden information, it is a bad game. but, i think if a game's *fun* is contingent on hidden information, it can still be a good game - aaron
[2018-06-13 14:57:02] - daniel: i understand the logic where dominion is more fun to play with a tracker; you look at everyone's scores, "i have 15 points, you guys have 31 and 36 points. this is more fun than not knowing." i do not agree it works this way in practice. a lot of games like settlers of catan and power grid culminate in negative player experiences when people feel know they 100% can not win because of public information - aaron
[2018-06-13 14:55:29] - a: IRL card counting is AOK. the distinction for me is that players fall into two vague categories; novices and experts. novices will not count cards, and will enjoy the game more with imprecise information. experts will count cards, and will have no fun regardless. (i do not think bobby fischer "had fun" playing chess, for example.) - aaron
[2018-06-13 14:36:28] - aaron: "literally every action taken by every player in the game is also public" Yeah, but you could have cards in your hand which screw with things. I can never know how many blue train cards you have in Ticket to Ride because you can draw blind off the top of the deck. -Paul
[2018-06-13 14:10:34] - aaron: if you're playing a game online, though I think it's silly to expect it to be played under physical tabletop conditions to the letter. By nature of the medium you are going to have better ways to track information that is trackable. - mig
[2018-06-13 14:08:29] - "Personally, I think point counters greatly improve the Dominion experience by focusing more on strategy, in a more Chess-like way, not on memorization." - From your post aaron. I had this thought too. There is zero hidden information in Chess so I wonder if people's stance on this issue correlates to their feelings on chess. -Daniel
[2018-06-13 14:08:15] - "in my opinion, dominion was more fun without the tracker" irl i don't count cards, but i think counting cards would be par for the course in an irl competition. what are your thoughts on irl card counting? ~a
[2018-06-13 14:00:11] - and in my opinion, dominion was more fun without the tracker; i would buy the last province and lose 27-28, and think "oh man! i didn't know i was behind by that much." that was honestly fun for me; i don't care about winning or losing as much as just enjoying the game while i'm playing it, and point trackers take away from that - aaron
[2018-06-13 13:58:06] - however, people took offense to point tracking, so eventually the point tracking chrome extension added features; it would announce its presence at the game start, "This player is using a point tracker; type /disable to disable their point tracker." but then the people using the tracker took offense; so there were options to not announce, or to announce but not disable it, resulting in arguments about what was fair - aaron
[2018-06-13 13:56:50] - daniel: that is, in my opinion, literally the perfect example. http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=28.0 isotropic was a popular web-based dominion server. they had a rank system, and players who wanted every advantage possible used a chrome extension with a gui that showed, "you have 21 points, your opponent has 28 points," so they would know that buying the last 6-point province would lose them the game - aaron
[2018-06-13 13:55:17] - I'm probably not a big fan of "hidden but trackable", because honestly it really is just public information, just with some hoops to jump through. - mig
[2018-06-13 13:55:10] - paul: yeah, hanabi is tough and i'm grateful the online game takes those kinds of notes for you. i sometimes wish real life games also tracked that information for me. but, i enjoy the challenge of trying to remember it, too. - aaron
[2018-06-13 13:53:51] - aaron: What about keeping track of provinces in dominion? Thats something I think we all generally do but its still "hidden but trackable". I think I would mostly agree with Paul, it seems against the spirit to try and track it 100%. -Daniel
[2018-06-13 13:53:42] - sure, but literally every action taken by every player in the game is also public for anyone willing to track it. in a game of Concordia, "how many yellow cards have you taken" is public. in a game of Secret Hitler, "how many times has Aaron voted for a team with Paul on it" is public. but, i think it is OK that these games reward people for remembering these details, even if it is tedious to track them - aaron
[2018-06-13 13:52:27] - aaron: I think about this a lot during Hanabi. I often find myself kinda wanting to record info like, "This is not green because I had this tile when I was clued to another green tile" because it's hard to remember that, but writing down info in Hanabi doesn't seem right. -Paul
[2018-06-13 13:51:23] - aaron: Using a pen and paper to track it feels... not quite like cheating, but against the spirit of the game. At the same time, it seems like an arbitrary line to say people can remember it in their heads but aren't allowed to write it down. This is especially becoming relevant as my memory goes.
-Paul[2018-06-13 13:49:41] - aaron: I don't have strong feelings on the issue, but I think my ideal game wouldn't depend heavily on such information because it seems like such a grey area. If money isn't (supposed to be) public, but income and spending is, then money basically is public for anybody willing to track it. -Paul
[2018-06-13 13:21:26] - sorry, typo... "because it keeps the game moving" - aaron
[2018-06-13 13:21:10] - personally i like this mechanic not because it rewards memory, but because it keeps going movie. i might vaguely know "paul doesn't have much money left" but i do not know "he has $29..." if i know his exact dollar amount, it compounds on the AP in a game like Power Grid or even Acquire as I can calculate the exact dollar amount or the exact best stocks to pick up every turn - aaron
[2018-06-13 13:19:41] - http://www.thegamesjournal.com/articles/OpenandClosed.shtml when playing games like Power Grid and Acquire, some people object very heavily to the idea of "hidden but trackable" information. In other words, I can use a pencil and paper and know that you have exactly three shares of red stock, but if i don't do that then i might forget and lose the game because i have a bad memory. what do you think about this as a mechanic? - aaron
[2018-06-13 11:20:37] - also of note: after adding the dividends, everybody is in the positive! ~a
[2018-06-13 11:13:24] - haha, my dividends did change the results though. paul and i are very close. ~a
[2018-06-13 11:11:03] - xpovos: added (1.36+1.36), thanks! still 3rd place, sorry
~a[2018-06-13 11:08:38] - a: MMM has had two dividends in the challeng period. $1.36/share on 3/12 and 6/12. -- Xpovos
[2018-06-13 11:07:43] - a: Laziness is a job requirement in good coders, I though. -- Xpovos
[2018-06-13 10:50:24] - xpovos: oh yeah, dividends are done manually, and i add them in every 3 months or so. if you notice dividends missing from your section, you can mention it to me or add it in yourself. ~a
[2018-06-13 10:49:21] - god, i don't know why i'm saying these things. good bye, any chance of getting a job working with you guys!
~a[2018-06-13 10:45:12] - Stock Market challenge is really interesting right now. Twitter being up gives Paul a lot of momentum. But a is back in the lead and my stuff hasn't gone down any. If I can get some MMM movement, or a bounce off a dividend, it's looking OK. -- Xpovos
[2018-06-12 21:48:09] - xpovos, the latter. combined with general laziness. ~a
[2018-06-12 18:16:39] - Programming is problem solving. Are the problems already solved, or otherwise uninteresting? — Xpovos
[2018-06-12 12:54:52] - aaron: for instance, 628 looks like fun. ~a
[2018-06-12 12:25:13] - aaron: yeah, i think maybe that's it. i do program for fun very often. so maybe programming isn't the problem. maybe it's just working?
~a[2018-06-12 12:18:54] - so for me, I think I will always love programming even if I maybe do not always love my job - aaron
[2018-06-12 12:18:23] - a: I agree with daniel; I made a flash game as a side project and loved programming that. I enjoy programming on projects where I am comfortable with the language and have good tools and a lot of freedom. I don't like working in Javascript on big projects which are micromanaged to where I can't fix anything - aaron
[2018-06-12 12:13:04] - paul: i'll be back. ~a
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