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[2001-06-01 09:43:00] - Equal Fights has a parody of the feminist movement (femme fatale is the villian) and Meet the Beat-Alls has lots of references to the Beatles -paul
[2001-06-01 09:42:00] - paul: no i didn't. i don't know anything about irqs and i know very little about getting hardware that doesn't work to work.
i think anyone who posts on this website knows much more about it than i do ~a[2001-06-01 09:41:00] - peared in the slot just below Gore and vice presidential candidate Joseph I. Lieberman. Why? Rivera said they confused 'Libertarian' and 'Lieberman.'" - vinnie
[2001-06-01 09:41:00] - "Rivera said many Spanish-speaking voters complained of uncertainty about the ballot. Dozens of voters, he said, lost their votes when they marked ballots once for Democrat Al Gore and again for Libertarian Party candidate Harry Browne, whose name ap
[2001-06-01 09:40:00] - http://www.washingtontimes.com/op-ed/20010601-28680420.htm
[2001-06-01 09:40:00] - you need to give me the plot summaries. i couldn't tell you from the episode titles - vinnie
[2001-06-01 09:35:00] - vinnie: Have you ever seen either "Equal Fights" or "Meet the Beat Alls" ? -paul
[2001-06-01 09:31:00] - why? - vinnie
[2001-06-01 09:30:00] - probably more now that i think about it - vinnie
[2001-06-01 09:30:00] - i've seen about three episodes - vinnie
[2001-06-01 09:08:00] - vinnie: Do you watch the powerpuff girls? -paul
[2001-06-01 09:06:00] - a: Did you manage to get Aparna's computer working? -paul
[2001-06-01 09:05:00] - vinnie: You can thank Aparna, she sent it to me -paul
[2001-06-01 09:05:00] - a: Thanks for the back-up
-paul[2001-06-01 09:04:00] - dave: I don't know, I would have to do more research on it -paul
[2001-06-01 09:01:00] - posted by miguel ~a
[2001-06-01 09:01:00] - btw, paul, interesting article in your response to my e-mail - vinnie
[2001-06-01 09:00:00] - from - http://www.salon.com/news/feature/2001/04/26/drug_war/index.html ~a
[2001-06-01 08:59:00] - paul: "What kind of vindictive social agenda could lead to a law that denies financial aid to a student convicted of smoking a joint but not one convicted of rape, murder, arson or armed robbery?" ~a
[2001-06-01 08:59:00] - paul: so they are kinda revoked, right? - vinnie
[2001-06-01 08:52:00] - so if you were going to buy a geforce 2 ultra, which would you buy? -dave
[2001-06-01 08:52:00] - paul: well, if you look at the prices, the annihilator 2 ultra is around $100 - $150 more than the elsa gladiac card -dave
[2001-06-01 08:50:00] - dave: I don't think so, usually because the offenders end up in jail for those crimes so scholarships are kind of moot -paul
[2001-06-01 08:49:00] - dave: I wouldn't pay $100 more, but I do think it is still worth it to buy a good brand because of other factors then speed -paul
[2001-06-01 08:44:00] - paul: you sure that we don't revoke for those offenses? -dave
[2001-06-01 08:43:00] - paul: so you're saying that the extra $100 to get a better brand name geforce 2 isn't worth it? -dave
[2001-06-01 08:43:00] - I think it's funny that we revoke scholarships and stuff for drug use, but not for rape or murder or robbery -paul
[2001-06-01 08:41:00] - dave: My guess would be very little when compared to the sheer power of the cards -paul
[2001-06-01 08:37:00] - yeah, I got some email from someone about signing a petition against Bush for his plan to deny scholarship money to students who would disclose their drug history. They wanted bush to disclose his complete drug history before getting another paychec
[2001-06-01 08:36:00] - how much difference is there in performance between a cheap geforce 2 ultra and an expensive one? like what's the difference between an elsa card and a creative card? -dave
[2001-06-01 08:33:00] - hurray for amd and the 1.4 ghz t-bird! -dave
[2001-06-01 08:32:00] - cocaines use?! -dave
[2001-06-01 08:31:00] - dave: The democrats made that a big ticket issue to push, and then decided against it somewhat. There was also the consideration of his cocaine use... - dewey
[2001-06-01 08:29:00] - dave: I think it is widely known that Bush had a drinking problem earlier in his life, sometime between college and his political life -paul
[2001-06-01 08:28:00] - dewey: Ok, I can understand the connection there I guess
-paul[2001-06-01 08:26:00] - and what's this about the post saying that bush has / had a drinking problem? -dave
[2001-06-01 08:26:00] - the statement they seem to be giving is that they didn't say anything about her first offense, but now that this is the second within a month... -dave
[2001-06-01 08:25:00] - should the media be covering jenna bush's drinking incidents? they seem to be quite divided on whether or not they should -dave
[2001-06-01 08:24:00] - Paul: I don't know what connection I was trying to make with Welfare Babies and Maternity Leave. I think it was along the lines of abusing the system. - dewey
[2001-06-01 08:18:00] - a: Ok, I'll take your word for it
Did you get Aparna's computer fixed? -paul[2001-06-01 08:18:00] - what problem is paul having with ftp? -dave
[2001-06-01 08:07:00] - 78.2% of all statistics are incorrect
[2001-06-01 08:07:00] - Paul: your links work now.
- dewey[2001-06-01 07:59:00] - paul: i can help you with ftp when i am at your house. ~a
[2001-06-01 07:27:00] - paul: yes. i put the new version of the journal on everyone's account. you were using an old version before that had an old template. ~a
[2001-05-31 23:41:00] - a: It was broken? -paul
[2001-05-31 22:36:00] - why do you think everyone needs to smoke more pot? ~a
[2001-05-31 22:24:00] - everyone needs to smoke more pot
[2001-05-31 22:04:00] - wise advice
[2001-05-31 21:02:00] - When someone says "I'm so hungry that I could literally eat a horse," she or he would probably turn away in disgust if you served her or him up with a delicately seasoned steak from this year's Kentucky Derby winner.
[2001-05-31 21:01:00] - Do not use "literally" when you really mean "figuratively" or some other expression that indicates that you are speaking metaphorically.
[2001-05-31 20:25:00] - aba: I gave my computer a rest this evening. It is back up
- dewey[2001-05-31 20:24:00] - heh, a little delayed, but thanks for the answer adrian - dewey
[2001-05-31 20:09:00] - paul, dewey is fixing your template files, i hope that is ok. ~a
[2001-05-31 18:44:00] - i see ok then. - mig
[2001-05-31 18:36:00] - mig: I believe trolling is when you post an inflammatory message on a message board for the sole purpose of getting people upset -paul
[2001-05-31 17:23:00] - does anyone know what "trolling" is, i've seen the term used a lot on slashdot and i don't know exactly what it is. - mig
[2001-05-31 17:08:00] - and allowing javascript would be hard to manage. ~a
[2001-05-31 16:59:00] - what's very interesting is the word "video" "game" or "video game" does not appear once in this entire report. - mig
[2001-05-31 16:58:00] - http://www.treas.gov/usss/ntac_ssi_report.pdf - mig
[2001-05-31 16:50:00] - Plus you could do stuff like javascript if complex <a> tags were allowed - aaron
[2001-05-31 16:49:00] - <a href=verybadbadlink>http://www.google.com/</a> - that is why, dewey ~a
[2001-05-31 16:48:00] - Aagh dang it. Just messing around, sorry - aaron
[2001-05-31 16:48:00] - <b onmouseover="javascript:alert('BLAH')">Bold!</b> - aaron
[2001-05-31 16:42:00] - dewey: i get a dns error when i go to your journal page. i get no response. - aba
[2001-05-31 16:41:00] - anyway, I really need to get going now, bye everyone -paul
[2001-05-31 16:40:00] - oh, ok. have fun with your cousins, paul. - aba
[2001-05-31 16:40:00] - aba: Don't be sorry, you weren't being stupid. Computers are complicated pieces of machinery -paul
[2001-05-31 16:39:00] - aba: Don't do that yet, I'm sure we can figure it out eventually. I need to babysit my cousins tonight but if I will try to call you to get it fixed, ok? -paul
[2001-05-31 16:39:00] - yes. i was being stupid. sorry. - aba
[2001-05-31 16:38:00] - aba: They are normal pci cards then? -paul
[2001-05-31 16:38:00] - if nothing works, i'll just take it back to the people who built the computer for me and shell out the money for them to play with it. - aba
[2001-05-31 16:37:00] - ok, bye paul. thanks for trying to help me. - aba
[2001-05-31 16:36:00] - . i feel dumb now. - aba
[2001-05-31 16:36:00] - hm, nevermind. i was looking at something incorrectly
[2001-05-31 16:36:00] - aba: That's a really weird setup.... -paul
[2001-05-31 16:35:00] - aba: I'm really sorry, I need to go home now. The only suggestion I have so far is to try swapping some of the cards to see if that works. I'll check into it more and call you later tonight? -paul
[2001-05-31 16:34:00] - well, in the back of my computer, the two output plug points are in the same slot. i don't know enough about computers to understand what that means. - aba
[2001-05-31 16:31:00] - aba: Whoa, the modem and network card are connected in some way? -paul
[2001-05-31 16:30:00] - hm, well 3dfx does still have an 800 number: http://www.3dfx.com/support.htm - dewey
[2001-05-31 16:30:00] - dewey: http://support.intel.com/support/motherboards/desktop/pr440fx/irqs.htm Read the stuff about PCI slots -paul
[2001-05-31 16:29:00] - personally, i think it's a little bit of paranoia, but it's adrian's board, so he gets to make the rules. - mig
[2001-05-31 16:29:00] - nope, it just said to place it into a pci slot. i dunno about switching the modem and the video card because the modem shares an output slot with the network card and i don't really know how that works. - aba
[2001-05-31 16:28:00] - aba: I guess there is no mention about which pci slot to place the video card in? -paul
[2001-05-31 16:28:00] - no link tags because you could link porn with the decription of washpost article or something and then someone would get pissed off. - aba
[2001-05-31 16:27:00] - aba: Video card is first or third? Well, either way; try swapping them? - dewey
[2001-05-31 16:27:00] - nothing about conflicts. all the stuff in there that i saw was about problems with the video output itself. - aba
[2001-05-31 16:25:00] - aww, why doesn't Adrian allow for link tags? - dewey
[2001-05-31 16:25:00] - aba: Damn.... I'm not sure what is wrong then... does it say anything in the video card manual? -paul
[2001-05-31 16:25:00] - the link html tag doesn't work on this board. - mig
[2001-05-31 16:25:00] - <a href=http://dewey.dyn.dhs.org/Journal>Star Trek: Enterprise</a> - dewey
[2001-05-31 16:24:00] - yes, the top three are taken by the modem, network and video cards in that order. - aba
[2001-05-31 16:23:00] - Probably has a larger Bus to it as opposed to the others. To allow for more traffic. Maybe that is determined by where it is detected? - dewey
[2001-05-31 16:23:00] - aba: So is the bottom slot empty? -paul
[2001-05-31 16:22:00] - "These are games that train people to kill." that's quite a claim to make. - mig
[2001-05-31 16:21:00] - the network card did still appear in the hardware profile. i remember checking that too. - aba
[2001-05-31 16:21:00] - dewey: I thought I read something about "pci bus mastering" and I thought I remember reading that the first slot is special for some reason, I don't remember how or why -paul
[2001-05-31 16:20:00] - http://www.ctnow.com/scripts/editorial.dll?render=y&eetype=Article&eeid=4583192&ck=&ver=3.0 looks like the gov. from ct actually has balls. - mig
[2001-05-31 16:20:00] - because video cards are heavy traffic appliances, so maybe it likes to have it in the front. - dewey
[2001-05-31 16:20:00] - i have 4 pci slots total, 3 of which are taken by the afore mentioned cards. - aba
[2001-05-31 16:20:00] - aba: I guess there is no way to check if it works, but I assume your network card still appears on your hardware list? -paul
[2001-05-31 16:19:00] - but if the card isn't in the first slot, I guess the computer might not like looking for cards in front of it. - dewey
[2001-05-31 16:18:00] - dewey: I hope so.... -paul
[2001-05-31 16:17:00] - aba: From bottom to top? With gaps in between? -paul
[2001-05-31 16:17:00] - oh wait, I was thinking AGP, wasn't i? - dewey
[2001-05-31 16:17:00] - let me go shut my computer down so that i can get a better look. brb. - aba
[2001-05-31 16:17:00] - paul: it very well could. I don't know much about PCI slots, as I haven't had a computer yet with them. But I remember hearing something about video cards being in the first slot. - dewey
[2001-05-31 16:16:00] - aba: PCI slots, not counting ISA and AGP -paul
[2001-05-31 16:16:00] - the order in which my cards are stacked: modem, network, video. - aba
[2001-05-31 16:16:00] - aba: Oh, hmmm..... Which slot is it in? And how many slots total do you have? -paul
[2001-05-31 16:13:00] - the modem is pci. - aba
[2001-05-31 16:12:00] - dewey: Do you think changing the slot she puts the video card in would help at all? -paul
[2001-05-31 16:12:00] - hang on, let me go find out. - aba
[2001-05-31 16:11:00] - That sounds like something I have heard about before too. - dewey
[2001-05-31 16:11:00] - aba: Is your modem PCI or ISA? -paul
[2001-05-31 16:10:00] - aba: Um... I am not sure, I've heard of problems involving putting certain cards in the wrong pci slot, but from what I read, I thought video cards are suppose to go in the top most slot. Can anyone confirm this? -paul
[2001-05-31 16:06:00] - yes, it was the top slot. would it have made a difference? - aba
[2001-05-31 16:06:00] - nope. none at all. that was one of the first things i looked at. - aba
[2001-05-31 16:05:00] - aba: Oh..... hmm..... was it the upper most slot? -paul
[2001-05-31 16:05:00] - aba: Windows doesn't list any conflicts if you go into the resources tab of the properties of you display adaptor? -paul
[2001-05-31 16:03:00] - my old video card was not pci, so i took it out and put the voodoo 3 in the first available pci slot. - aba
[2001-05-31 16:02:00] - Voodoo cards are no more? geeze, I need to read more computer news
- dewey[2001-05-31 16:01:00] - aba: Just out of curiousity, was your video card in the upper most PCI slot? I assume you used the same slot for the new video card? -paul
[2001-05-31 16:00:00] - dewey: I can't think of any other reason for the problem though... Unless the video card screwed with the BIOS? -paul
[2001-05-31 15:59:00] - aba: Yeah, you should have a voodoo 5.... -paul
[2001-05-31 15:59:00] - paul: that is possible, but new hardware is supposed to be able to use lots of IRQs so that Windows can assign different ones to all devices. - dewey
[2001-05-31 15:59:00] - i got the modem when i bought my computer 2 years ago. as to when it was first manufactured, i have no clue. - aba
[2001-05-31 15:59:00] - dewey: 3dfx was bought out by nvidia, I seriously doubt there is any tech support for it
-paul[2001-05-31 15:59:00] - hehe. they will be like "why the hell were you installing a new voodoo 3 into your computer?"
- aba[2001-05-31 15:58:00] - how old is your modem, you might have to play around with the jumpers on it. - mig
[2001-05-31 15:58:00] - aba: if all else fails, call the Voodoo Tech Support
- dewey[2001-05-31 15:57:00] - yes. it even runs black and white.
the weirdest part is that windows isn't registering any hardware conflicts at all. - aba[2001-05-31 15:57:00] - dewey: Do you think the video card stole the IRQ that the modem was using? -paul
[2001-05-31 15:56:00] - how come the journal had never seen the word 'disk' before?
[2001-05-31 15:56:00] - aba: talking about the modem in all that previous message :-o - dewey
[2001-05-31 15:56:00] - aba: Does the video card work ok? Besides the missing modem -paul
[2001-05-31 15:55:00] - it's a rockwell internal modem. i haven't dled drivers for the modem because there were drivers available on my win2k cd. i dled drivers for the voodoo3 off of 3dfx's website. - aba
[2001-05-31 15:55:00] - aba: Maybe try removing the card, booting windows (ensure that the modem is nowhere to be found in the device manager), shutdown, plug it back in, boot up with the newest drivers ready on disk. - dewey
[2001-05-31 15:54:00] - aba: What kind of modem is it? Is it internal or external? -paul
[2001-05-31 15:53:00] - aba: did you download new drivers for the modem? - dewey
[2001-05-31 15:53:00] - you were drawing a gun at me, for any reason. - mig
[2001-05-31 15:52:00] - i even opened up my computer again to make sure that nothing was knocked loose, and that wasn't the problem either. so now i'm pretty much out of ideas.
- aba[2001-05-31 15:52:00] - i remember reading an article on mises.org questioning whether certain things should be illegal or not, and it kept asking, would you be willing to shoot this person for doing this activity. in this case it would be yes, i would shoot you if
[2001-05-31 15:52:00] - mig: There is the question. I am just showing it to you but you may see it as being a threatening motion (I am walking towards you with a drawn gun after all) -paul
[2001-05-31 15:51:00] - it is very frustrating because now i have to share my dad's computer.
plus, i have no clue what went wrong. i tried to manually readd the modem to my hardware profile, but that didn't work. windows said it didn't exist. - aba[2001-05-31 15:50:00] - my old video card was not built-in. i removed it. the computer locked up with the new card in but w/o the drivers installed and as soon as i installed new drivers, the modem disappeared. - aba
[2001-05-31 15:50:00] - frankly, when it comes to unholstering guns,(and this even applies to police), you better have a damn good reason. - mig
[2001-05-31 15:49:00] - a: what is fixed? -paul
[2001-05-31 15:48:00] - are you just showing it to me. or are you acting all threatening and waving it around. - mig
[2001-05-31 15:46:00] - mig: I know, but I am trying to figure out where you draw the line between something being illegal or not -paul
[2001-05-31 15:46:00] - paul: the line is threatening with deadly force - dewey
[2001-05-31 15:46:00] - a: so I can build up my knowledge base - dewey
[2001-05-31 15:45:00] - a: how did you fix it? - dewey
[2001-05-31 15:45:00] - mig: Ok then, so where do you draw the line of what is legal and what isn't legal? What if I had my gun out to show you? -paul
[2001-05-31 15:45:00] - fixed ~a
[2001-05-31 15:45:00] - you forget paul, i'm not the gun control nazi. - mig
[2001-05-31 15:44:00] - dewey: I don't think her previous card was built-in and I have no idea what kind of modem it is. You think the video card stole the modem's IRQ? -paul
[2001-05-31 15:43:00] - then no, it would not be threatening. - mig
[2001-05-31 15:43:00] - there might be a video conflict if the old and new card are both fighting for stuff. - dewey
[2001-05-31 15:42:00] - mig: I know, and I am asking what if it was holstered, but in plain view? -paul
[2001-05-31 15:42:00] - and i guess no, i would not feel he would be threatening my life if he had it holstered. after all, cops have their guns holstered in plain view also. - mig
[2001-05-31 15:42:00] - paul: if her previous card was built in, probably have to disable it in the bios. is the modem PCI? - dewey
[2001-05-31 15:41:00] - i didn't say he was holstering his gun. i said he was waving it at me. - mig
[2001-05-31 15:41:00] - mig: So what if he had his gun holstered but in plain view? Is he still threatening your life? -paul
[2001-05-31 15:39:00] - dewey: She installed a new pci video card (3dfx voodoo3) and when she booted up her modem was gone and the computer won't autodetect it -paul
[2001-05-31 15:39:00] - yes, because he is not simply waving his gun. whether he intends it or not, he is threatening my life, which is illegal. - mig
[2001-05-31 15:38:00] - aw, that wasn't as cool as I thought it was going to be. - dewey
[2001-05-31 15:37:00] - </i>paul: no, what's up? - d<font color=red>ew</font>ey
[2001-05-31 15:36:00] - Man, I wish I could install games on this computer.... it turns out to be a p3 1.0ghz with 256M of memory... I guess it needs the power to do this ArcSys and Modeling applications. *sigh* - dewey
[2001-05-31 15:35:00] - dewey: Do you know about Aparna's problem with the video card and modem? -paul
[2001-05-31 15:25:00] - mig: You are justified in fearing for your life but are cops justified in arresting him simply for waving a gun? -paul
[2001-05-31 15:24:00] - well i'm not totally for this law in its current form. like i said before, let's stop drivers when they drive badly, and not when the drive ok. - mig
[2001-05-31 15:23:00] - mig: So the difference is that cell phone use leading to accidents is reasonable and video games leading to violence is unreasonable? -paul
[2001-05-31 15:21:00] - that's another good example, mig. the gunner is not infringing upon my rights, but may indeed kill me - vinnie
[2001-05-31 15:20:00] - whether he's infringing on my rights just by waving his gun alone is questionable, he could be just greeting me or whatever, but i think i'm justified in fearing for my life. - mig
[2001-05-31 15:20:00] - Somebody had an interesting take on polygomy. It's not illegal to go around and get dozens of women pregnant, it's illegal if you marry them all. -paul
[2001-05-31 15:17:00] - and the cops have the authority to cap his ass. - mig
[2001-05-31 15:16:00] - there is a difference between reasonable and unreasonable fear of personal safety, if someone is waving a loaded gun at me, i have a reasonable fear that my life is in danger. - mig
[2001-05-31 15:15:00] - Marriage and Sex with your cousins is outlawed because a genetic defect may be a result. - dewey
[2001-05-31 15:15:00] - paul: so you think it's ok for me or anyone to build some sort of unstable nuclear bomb, with no intent of infringing on other's rights? - vinnie
[2001-05-31 15:14:00] - paul: yeah, but I wanted to fix your PREV links before you write an entry tomorrow. - dewey
[2001-05-31 15:14:00] - it's the exact same argument people use when they try to outlaw violent video games. "Playing violent games may cause kids to become more violent" -paul
[2001-05-31 15:13:00] - I just think that it's dangerous to outlaw certain activities because they may increase the chances of something bad happening -paul
[2001-05-31 15:13:00] - dewey: in your message that says "you want to im me", paul's name is not in italics - vinnie
[2001-05-31 15:11:00] - dewey: All I have to do is FTP to aporter.dhs.org and upload the pics, right? -paul
[2001-05-31 15:10:00] - I guess that is a good deterent... nobody would want to be inconvinienced like that. I know we wouldn't go to movies because the BT didn't go to the mall at the right times. - dewey
[2001-05-31 15:09:00] - yes, but i can also see your side of the argument - vinnie
[2001-05-31 15:09:00] - vinnie: what?
[2001-05-31 15:09:00] - sometimes he even walked home. - mig
[2001-05-31 15:08:00] - dewey: andrew did, in fact had to do that. - mig
[2001-05-31 15:08:00] - or how about when you need to get groceries? Carry all those bags on the bus with you? - dewey
[2001-05-31 15:08:00] - dewey has a very good point, it's already illegal to cause an accident. It's illegal to drive badly or aggressively. Why do we need another law? -paul
[2001-05-31 15:07:00] - dewey: your message addressed to paul isn't in italics? how? - vinnie
[2001-05-31 15:07:00] - driving is only essential when you yourself make it essential. - mig
[2001-05-31 15:07:00] - mig: would you be willing to take the BT to tech every day if you lived off campus? - dewey
[2001-05-31 15:06:00] - too many broken images. It distracts me
-dewey[2001-05-31 15:06:00] - yet still, people can get by on using public transportation only. - mig
[2001-05-31 15:06:00] - paul: about your journal. I can fix the template for you. - dewey
[2001-05-31 15:05:00] - Paul: you want to IM me? - dewey
[2001-05-31 15:05:00] - vinnie: Do you think people should be required to wear seat-belts? -paul
[2001-05-31 15:05:00] - There are already laws about aggressive driving, where police can pull you over for following to close and weaving in-and-out of lanes. What else would you add to pull over a 'bad driver'? - dewey
[2001-05-31 15:04:00] - not necesarily that you can drive, but that you have reliable transportation. there's a difference. - mig
[2001-05-31 15:03:00] - speakerphones for all! - vinnie
[2001-05-31 15:03:00] - mig: public transit exists, but is horribly inconvenient (they don't go everywhere, only on certain times, no storage if you go shopping) -paul
[2001-05-31 15:03:00] - at a time, then glance at the road. They should glance at the passenger and stay focused on the road. People just need to be smart. - dewey
[2001-05-31 15:03:00] - paul: it may be true that you can lose your license for speeding, but i think you will find that the judges and courts etc have done a pretty good job about deciding when and when not to take away people's licenses -dave
[2001-05-31 15:03:00] - People need to be more responsible and just use some common sense. You see on TV that the actors always have conversations in the cars (like on "3rd Watch"- they talk while driving the ambulance to a call) and they turn their heads for minutes
[2001-05-31 15:02:00] - i agree with paul that driving is essential. many job applications have a place for you to indicate that you can drive to work -dave
[2001-05-31 15:02:00] - dewey: i think i agree with you. but sometimes short-term solutions are necessary - vinnie
[2001-05-31 15:02:00] - mig: You are making assumptions here, you don't have to cause an accident to lose your license. You can get in trouble for not wearing a seat-belt, speeding etc -paul
[2001-05-31 15:02:00] - I think we need driver improvement classes. Phone use is just one problem. People will have passengers and talk to them and use both arms/hands to gesture when they should be driving. - dewey
[2001-05-31 15:01:00] - paul: it may be a dangerous slippery slope, but everything is. and i think to make things work you have to draw the line on that slope -dave
[2001-05-31 15:01:00] - public transit exists, does it not? - mig
[2001-05-31 15:00:00] - dewey: there are many emergency situations that i could see using a cell phone in a car as useful. business people who need to keep in contact with lotsa peope is another example -dave
[2001-05-31 15:00:00] - Vinnie: Watching TV is a way to pass the time, but drivers aren't allowed to do that. - dewey
[2001-05-31 15:00:00] - and i could also aruge that being able to drive is not necessary (and some people don't drive to get to work, etc.) - mig
[2001-05-31 15:00:00] - dave: The problem I have with thinking like that is that it is a dangerous slippery slope. Soon you will find that talking at all while driving is illegal -paul
[2001-05-31 14:59:00] - do people spend so much time in their car that they need to spend that time on a phone? Then we should spend money fixing congestion, and not studying the effects of cell phone use in cars. - dewey
[2001-05-31 14:59:00] - and i don't think causing accidents or being caught dui is a "trivial matter" - mig
[2001-05-31 14:59:00] - dewey: why not? it's a way to pass the time, and some people rely on it for business purposes - vinnie
[2001-05-31 14:59:00] - paul: so you don't think the government should be able to take away your license if you have multiple instances of drunk driving? -dave
[2001-05-31 14:58:00] - dave: for old people who can't drive anymore - dewey
[2001-05-31 14:58:00] - i disagree somewhat, but i would propose to do something like a case-by-case thing, if someone is driving with a cell phone, and it's obvious that they're driving badly, then a cop could stop them, fair enough? - mig
[2001-05-31 14:58:00] - I think we should look at the reason why people have phones in their car at all. Why should you need to talk with someone while you are driving? - dewey
[2001-05-31 14:58:00] - dewey: an age constraint? isn't there already one? -dave
[2001-05-31 14:57:00] - mig: I disagree. Being able to drive is critical to living a decent life in modern days and if the government can take away your license for trivial matters then the government has too much power -paul
[2001-05-31 14:57:00] - paul: it doesn't, but the fact of the matter is that if there is a high enough risk that a certain act will infringe on other people's rights, than that activity is stopped. examples are gun control, alcohol restrictions, movie ratings, etc etc -dave
[2001-05-31 14:56:00] - I know some individuals who are concentrating on driving and still can't drive well. I think we should take their licenses away too. Maybe there should be an age constraint? - dewey
[2001-05-31 14:56:00] - I know some individuals who are concentrating on driving and still can't drive well. I think we should take their licenses away too. Maybe their should be an age constraint? - dewey
[2001-05-31 14:56:00] - vinnie: I completely understand your viewpoint, it's just I think differently -paul
[2001-05-31 14:56:00] - personally i think the system we have set up is fine. if you abuse your privelege to drive then the state can easily take it away from you. - mig
[2001-05-31 14:55:00] - dave: Obviously crashing your car into somebody and killing them infringes on their rights and therefore it should be illegal. I dont see how driving and talking on your cell phone in and of itself infringes on other people's rights -paul
[2001-05-31 14:54:00] - i'm undecided on the privilege vs right thing though -dave
[2001-05-31 14:54:00] - and I don't mean the lives of the people with the cell phones. i mean other people - vinnie
[2001-05-31 14:53:00] - paul: while i'd like to agree with that statement, unfortunately, i don't think it works in this case. if cell-hpone usage was strongly linked to accidents, I might be willing to deny personal freedom in order to save lives - vinnie
[2001-05-31 14:53:00] - paul: well, if you crash and kill someone else that's infringing on their rights. and the % chance of having an accident is quite high relatively -dave
[2001-05-31 14:52:00] - i see the point, but i just don't think you can apply that ideal to every possible situation. - mig
[2001-05-31 14:49:00] - mig: This is the way I see it: "You have the right to do whatever you want to as long as you don't infringe on another person's rights" -paul
[2001-05-31 14:47:00] - so you say it should be a god-given right? - mig
[2001-05-31 14:45:00] - i'm pretty sure there are people who feel you shouldn't need a license in order to drive, does that mean the state should let them? - mig
[2001-05-31 14:45:00] - mig: I don't agree with you that driving is a privilege and not a right. -paul
[2001-05-31 14:42:00] - and the people who talk on cell phones while driving are probably the richer section of the populous -dave
[2001-05-31 14:42:00] - mig: true, but i'm not sure that the public would stand by and say nothing if people told them they couldn't use cell phones while driving -dave
[2001-05-31 14:40:00] - that is precisely why we have dui laws, if i'm not mistaken. - mig
[2001-05-31 14:39:00] - ah, but driving in this country is a privelege and not a right, therefore if there is something that impairs the ability of person who is driving, then i think the state would have a right and say, "no, you can't do this." - mig
[2001-05-31 14:25:00] - Oops, there is suppose to be a "not" in the second sentence after the first "should" -paul
[2001-05-31 14:17:00] - mig: I'm still not sure why that is so important when considering the legality of the action. We should take into account how often something happens when we consider whether something should be legal or not -paul
[2001-05-31 14:10:00] - Yeah I know that's what I was talking about earlier - aaron
[2001-05-31 14:10:00] - if the number was pretty high, i'd say there'd be some cause for concern. - mig
[2001-05-31 14:06:00] - to me, that's a much more viable statistic. - mig
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