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[2001-06-14 14:13:00] - dave: Evil fascist republican! Begone from our midst!
-paul[2001-06-14 14:11:00] - unfortunately, no one wants to be like dave
-dave[2001-06-14 14:10:00] - ack! someone must stop paul! -dave
[2001-06-14 14:10:00] - xpovos: I'll tell you what, you can work on Aparna and Josh and I will work on Vinnie and Dewey
-paul[2001-06-14 14:08:00] - xpovos: Yes, but everybody hates you so I will be more effective
-paul[2001-06-14 14:06:00] - I was here first, paul. -- Xpovos
[2001-06-14 14:03:00] - Oh! Well, I intend to convert Dewey from his moderate liberalism to libertarianism and I intend to get you to go from whatever you are to libertarianism
-paul[2001-06-14 13:58:00] - no, no, no. i mean, you intend to convert dewey and I from being on the fence to off the fence or something else? - vinnie
[2001-06-14 13:55:00] - vinnie: What? No, I mean when I used the word "conversion", it said it was a new word -paul
[2001-06-14 13:54:00] - conversion off the fence, you mean? - vinnie
[2001-06-14 13:52:00] - Hey, "conversion" is new also
-paul[2001-06-14 13:51:00] - vinnie: Which is why I need to convert you and Dewey and finish my conversion of Miguel
-paul[2001-06-14 13:49:00] - vinnie: Basically pick any democrat and you have somebody who is big on welfare on social security. Even most moderate and conservative democrats support those programs -paul
[2001-06-14 13:49:00] - oh, c'mon, fence is new? - vinnie
[2001-06-14 13:48:00] - well, at least you're putting a voice out there. i'm on the fence on so many things - vinnie
[2001-06-14 13:47:00] - vinnie: I'm a really crappy debater, it's the strength of the message that does the work, and complaining about feminists and offending women doesn't qualify as political action in my book -paul
[2001-06-14 13:46:00] - ~A is playing around with layout, i'm guessing - vinnie
[2001-06-14 13:44:00] - paul: boooo, i can't do a political parody on my own
- vinnie[2001-06-14 13:43:00] - vinnie: btw, I can't think of any politicians that fit your definition of being like Robin Hood, you'll have to ask someone else. Sorry
-paul[2001-06-14 13:41:00] - and i don't see how you don't consider your anti-feminist essays as political action of some kind - vinnie
[2001-06-14 13:41:00] - at least, a better one than me - vinnie
[2001-06-14 13:40:00] - paul: if you're looking for a special skill that you have, you're already a much better debater than most of us, I would think - vinnie
[2001-06-14 13:39:00] - a: You can also do <Sarcasm> and </sarcasm> -paul
[2001-06-14 13:36:00] - a: smiles and *coughing* denotes sarcasm
- vinnie[2001-06-14 13:18:00] - now almost 500 pictures (here @@@/pics/ ). about half public with password. email me at adporter@vt.edu if you want a password. ~a
[2001-06-14 12:46:00] - but they only admit low-income students, and require all students to have a job -jdb
[2001-06-14 12:45:00] - have you ever heard of http://www.berea.edu/ ; all students get full-tuition scholarships -jdb
[2001-06-14 12:31:00] - man, sarcasm doesn't come accross well in text, does it? ~a
[2001-06-14 12:30:00] - conspiracy ~a
[2001-06-14 11:57:00] - I mean we've thrown enough money and talent at the school "problem" for 30 years straight now, with those kinds of resources any problem that can be fixed that we want fixed is gonna get fixed. Why aren't schools? We don't want them fixed. -- Xpovos
[2001-06-14 11:52:00] - My $0.02: public schools, despite their disgraceful record are doing exactly what we (gov) want them to do, do you really think the government wants highly educated people, -lots- of them? It would put them out of a job. -- Xpovos
[2001-06-14 11:27:00] - haha, indentured servitude pretty much! -jdb
[2001-06-14 11:26:00] - (he was a foreign student from this same middle eastern country) -jdb
[2001-06-14 11:26:00] - Hmm, it's like indentured servitude? Cool. -logan
[2001-06-14 11:25:00] - I guess it's easier with more people talking.
-logan[2001-06-14 11:25:00] - Woah. Didn't take long for me to take over! -logan
[2001-06-14 11:25:00] - well, i've actually heard that foreign companies do similar things. i met a student at tech that said he was obligated to work for a certain company in... some middle eastern country for 2 years after graduation. -jdb
[2001-06-14 11:23:00] - logan: no clue really; i think it's a new thing. -jdb
[2001-06-14 11:18:00] - jdb: I like their name. Does it work well? -logan
[2001-06-14 11:17:00] - http://www.sepschool.org/faq.html -logan
[2001-06-14 11:16:00] - logan: checkout www.myrichuncle.com -jdb
[2001-06-14 11:15:00] - dave: I project that if government pulled out of schooling, schools would be incredibly cheap (and diverse). -logan
[2001-06-14 11:14:00] - jdb: What is myrichuncle? -logan
[2001-06-14 11:14:00] - But you're right, I don't want to participate in a society that tries to turn children into conformist, non-thinking zombies. But that's not laziness. -logan
[2001-06-14 11:14:00] - me work more too. laters. - dewey
[2001-06-14 11:13:00] - dewey: I have many objections to state schooling that don't even touch on the argument I have against public funding of non-Constitutional tasks (which is a pretty hefty argument itself). -logan
[2001-06-14 11:13:00] - fairfax has good public schools. I never saw it as child abuse. and I was one of the teased children. - dewey
[2001-06-14 11:13:00] - back to work -dave
[2001-06-14 11:12:00] - dewey: The educational policy in any area is dictated largely by the state. Ask any school teacher. -logan
[2001-06-14 11:12:00] - logan: not enough scholarships for all the poor people you would have needing to pay for school -dave
[2001-06-14 11:12:00] - logan: what do you think of the myrichuncle program? -jdb
[2001-06-14 11:12:00] - Our government only helps a very few people with public schooling, while harming many by putting them in a harmful environment (both physically and intellectually) and then charging them for it. -logan
[2001-06-14 11:12:00] - and if you aren't happy about the school system in your area, you work to change it. basically you are telling me that you are too lazy for society. - dewey
[2001-06-14 11:11:00] - logan: and you would get a very segregated society. rich get good eduction and are smart. poor don't get anywhere. at least now the poor have a small chance -dave
[2001-06-14 11:11:00] - dave: There are also millions, if not billions of dollars in scholarships, even already. -logan
[2001-06-14 11:11:00] - dave: If that is the case (and I expect those to be at about the same number of people that would be homeless, because schooling would be cheap), there is private charity. -logan
[2001-06-14 11:10:00] - paul: yeah, everything pretty much. -jdb
[2001-06-14 11:10:00] - logan: i disagree, i think there are plenty of people who couldn't afford private schools no matter what taxes they were paying -dave
[2001-06-14 11:09:00] - When I pay tuition to a private school or college, I am choosing that school or college based on its merits. -logan
[2001-06-14 11:09:00] - dewey: It's also different in that I think sending a child to a public school is tantamount to child abuse. -logan
[2001-06-14 11:09:00] - dewey: for one thing, some people send their kids to private schools as kids, so they're paying for public schools and not getting anything for it -dave
[2001-06-14 11:09:00] - dewey: It's different in that my children are never going to a public school. -logan
[2001-06-14 11:08:00] - jdb: So basically everything?
I would love to debate Ashcroft with you more, but I got to go do some work Talk to you later maybe. -paul[2001-06-14 11:08:00] - If you didn't tax people to pay for unneeded, harmful government programs, they could afford private schools, and a market for private schools would flourish. -logan
[2001-06-14 11:08:00] - dave: Those that pay most for it are those that supposedly need it most. It makes no sense. -logan
[2001-06-14 11:08:00] - logan: but you were saying that all kids could turn out that way. i disagree -dave
[2001-06-14 11:08:00] - logan: how is paying taxes for public teachers any different than paying tuition to a private school or college? - dewey
[2001-06-14 11:07:00] - jdb: Yeah. It goes along with all that Sudbury school stuff. -logan
[2001-06-14 11:07:00] - logan: you're helping to pay for it because america thinks that all kids should have a chance to go to school. and not all parents have the money -dave
[2001-06-14 11:07:00] - dave: Unfortunately I do not have the physical nor mental fortitude to sire an entire planetful of children.
[2001-06-14 11:06:00] - then they become un-curious because they are told by parents and people how things are. there becomes no mystery about life. good teachers should reinstill that. - dewey
[2001-06-14 11:06:00] - logan: did you read that schoolyard subversion article that i directed to you earlier? -jdb
[2001-06-14 11:06:00] - dave: Well, I think for most kids, respecting their curiosity from birth will teach them to enjoy learning. -logan
[2001-06-14 11:06:00] - logan: i defy you to prove that you can turn all kids into self-starting, motivated students -dave
[2001-06-14 11:05:00] - dewey: You're welcome to entrust your children to these government lackies, but I shouldn't have to pay for it. -logan
[2001-06-14 11:05:00] - paul: in particular, his voting record in regards to civil rights, the first ammendment, women's rights, gay rights, the environment and gun control. lots of things. -jdb
[2001-06-14 11:05:00] - dewey: I don't trust government teachers. The fact that they get money from me is extortion. -logan
[2001-06-14 11:05:00] - logan: there will always be kids who will do better if presented with ideas rather then making them pursue the ideas themselves -dave
[2001-06-14 11:05:00] - Why would such behavior suddenly change between the ages of 1 and 5? -logan
[2001-06-14 11:05:00] - Homeschooled children are usually smart. But we pay our taxes because we don't have that much time to devote, so we pay teachers to do it. We put our children in their trust. - dewey
[2001-06-14 11:04:00] - If you look at any (normal) baby, you'll find an individual deeply curious about the world around him or her. -logan
[2001-06-14 11:04:00] - logan: no of course not! why would i ever think about where my perceptions come from?!
-dave[2001-06-14 11:03:00] - My observations and studies seem to suggest that some children become unmotivated because they are subjected to the sort of treatment I'm arguing against. -logan
[2001-06-14 11:03:00] - dewey: i agree with dewey again on the eduction. go dewey! -dave
[2001-06-14 11:03:00] - dave: Have you ever thought to question why you perceive of children as generally unmotivated to learn? -logan
[2001-06-14 11:02:00] - dewey: You are exacty right, children are different and we can't teach them all the same way. That's why we leave it to the parents to do what is best -paul
[2001-06-14 11:02:00] - dewey: No, I don't have to teach them all.
-logan[2001-06-14 11:02:00] - paul: all societies depend on good parents....but to different extents -dave
[2001-06-14 11:01:00] - jdb: What in particular? -paul
[2001-06-14 11:01:00] - Obviously if you disagree with what my ideal goal of education is, then the role you expect education to play is going to differ. -logan
[2001-06-14 11:01:00] - Not all children learn the same way. some are curious and explore on their own. others are learners from experience, through assignments and homework. you have to teach them all - dewey
[2001-06-14 11:01:00] - hurray! logan for president! haha -dave
[2001-06-14 11:01:00] - dewey: Then you learn about it later on in life. Our system now also depends on Utopian parents, what is different? -paul
[2001-06-14 11:00:00] - logan: most kids aren't motivated enough to find stuff on their own. there are plenty of classes i wouldn't have gone too, but something i heard in them sparked my interest to other things -dave
[2001-06-14 11:00:00] - I don't believe there is any 'right.' But I have goals in mind when it comes to my concept of 'education,' and I'm speaking of how I plan to achieve those goals. -logan
[2001-06-14 10:59:00] - paul: no, it is not safe to assume that I dislike ashcroft because of his "strong religious views" -- i don't like him because of his voting record. -jdb
[2001-06-14 10:59:00] - logan: again, if the world were perfect, parents would teach their kids right and we should all be commies -dave
[2001-06-14 10:59:00] - ah, utopian parents. What if you weren't wonderfully educated? What if you don't know enough to talk to your kids about religion? - dewey
[2001-06-14 10:59:00] - I think teachers should be like encyclopedias. There to be used when a kid needs information or help. But the kid has to initiate it. -logan
[2001-06-14 10:58:00] - My ideal world is one where there are no large-scale majorities. No big governments. -logan
[2001-06-14 10:58:00] - If the majority found slavery acceptable (and it was vast enough), then slavery is going to exist, end of story. -logan
[2001-06-14 10:58:00] - i agree with dewey. teachers should present a good range of ideas for kids. the kids can then pick teh ideas they like the best and investigate further -dave
[2001-06-14 10:57:00] - dewey: The question is whether public schools are the best place to expose kids to these things -paul
[2001-06-14 10:57:00] - and if it isn't my building? what then? - dewey
[2001-06-14 10:57:00] - dewey: Why must teachers do it? If you raise your child from the start to know that there's a whole wide world out there, you don't need ideas rammed down your throat. -logan
[2001-06-14 10:56:00] - dewey: I do, when your right to buy explosives interfere's with my right to live, you have crossed the line -paul
[2001-06-14 10:56:00] - paul: not that it should be that way, but that that's the way it works. if the majority said slavery was acceptable, by jolly, it would still be here -dave
[2001-06-14 10:56:00] - Obviously certain types of building explosions are justifiably untolerated. -logan
[2001-06-14 10:56:00] - logan: I never really knew much about other religions except when discussion with Catholics about their religion. When I learned about the world culture in humanities, then I became curious. teachers must expose kids to the world. - dewey
[2001-06-14 10:56:00] - There's a difference between morality (which I'm not even sure means anything any more) and what a group of people can tolerate in order to live peacefully with each other. -logan
[2001-06-14 10:56:00] - dewey: nothing, as long as it is your own building with no one else inside
-dave[2001-06-14 10:55:00] - dave: So the majority should make all the rules? What if the majority said that slavery was acceptable? -paul
[2001-06-14 10:54:00] - dewey: It's fine if it's your building and no one and no one's property is in it (and debris doesn't land on anyone else or anyone else's property, etc., etc.). -logan
[2001-06-14 10:54:00] - paul: who says blowing a hole in a building is wrong?
- dewey[2001-06-14 10:53:00] - dewey: Curiosity is not passive, as you describe. It's good to have the ideas present and available, but confrontation is not required. But I believe each parent should choose the type of schooling he or she thinks best for his or her child. -logan
[2001-06-14 10:53:00] - paul: no really? -dave
[2001-06-14 10:52:00] - dave: That's no easy task. The drug war wages on... -logan
[2001-06-14 10:52:00] - an active mind is only sparked by curiosity. Curiosity comes from being confronted with new ideas. Teachers confront you with those. - dewey
[2001-06-14 10:52:00] - paul: Blacksburg. I'm from Pulaski/Dublin/Radford originally. -logan
[2001-06-14 10:52:00] - dewey: The problem is when you use those items to do something wrong, like blowing a hole in a building -paul
[2001-06-14 10:52:00] - paul: in a way, the people do. if the govt makes a law they don't like, they yell real loud and get them to change it
-dave[2001-06-14 10:51:00] - logan: Really? Where in Virginia do you live? -paul
[2001-06-14 10:51:00] - dewey: None at all. -logan
[2001-06-14 10:50:00] - dave: The problem is when government gets involved in the child raising. Why does government say porn is bad at an early age but Warner Brothers is not? Who sets these standards? -paul
[2001-06-14 10:50:00] - If I want to front the cost of renting a U-haul and buying a bunch of gasoline and fertalizer, you wouldn't have any problems with that? - dewey
[2001-06-14 10:50:00] - dewey: all the religions? somehow I think that might take a while
- vinnie[2001-06-14 10:49:00] - logan: yeah, it could by done by private companies whose service the theaters subscribe to - vinnie
[2001-06-14 10:49:00] - You can stuff diversity down a child's throat all you want, but that won't foster intelligence. Let the child pursue his or her own interests. -logan
[2001-06-14 10:49:00] - An open mind is not as good as an active mind. -logan
[2001-06-14 10:48:00] - dewey: There should be separation between school and state. -logan
[2001-06-14 10:48:00] - paul: lol -dave
[2001-06-14 10:48:00] - paul: Virginia born and raised. -logan
[2001-06-14 10:48:00] - yes, religion shouldn't be forced on kids either. What you choose to teach them as a family, good for you. I wouldn't mind seeing schools teach about all the religions and 'ply' kids to have an open mind. - dewey
[2001-06-14 10:47:00] - logan: You don't live in Virginia, do you? -paul
[2001-06-14 10:47:00] - vinnie: If people want to front the cost, they can do whatever they like. But if it's imposed by government, I'm opposed. -logan
[2001-06-14 10:47:00] - vinnie: yeah, i understand, which is why i said it was an imperfect analogy. but you could argue that you would be hurting your kid -dave
[2001-06-14 10:46:00] - What is wrong with lust? And why is porn inherently degrading? -logan
[2001-06-14 10:46:00] - perhaps a better solution to have some sort of id that allows children only into movies their parents allow? - vinnie
[2001-06-14 10:46:00] - porn shows sex as being a completely physical thing that is degrading and lustful- and that is how kids will view relationships. Not very nuturing if you ask me. -dewey
[2001-06-14 10:46:00] - paul: the best way to raise your kids? probably you. but most parents would say they aren't raising them right themselves. so it's not too big of an issue -dave
[2001-06-14 10:46:00] - Logan stands for: Logan's Opinion: Global Anarchy Nice. -logan
[2001-06-14 10:46:00] - dewey: I could say I don't think a child should be exposed to religion while his mind is still pliable, but I think people might get upset about that -paul
[2001-06-14 10:45:00] - dave: we're not talking about harming anyone else here. i made the point because dewey thought society had an obligation to acknowledge the wishes of the parent who doesn't want their child to see an 'r' rated movie under any circumstances - vinnie
[2001-06-14 10:45:00] - dewey: It's fine that ratings exist, but no one should be pressured into age restrictions. -logan
[2001-06-14 10:44:00] - logan: i got it! logan is for world anarchy! lol -dave
[2001-06-14 10:44:00] - The rated 'r' movies on the other hand, nothing bad in them. I feel that the NC-17 rating should be used more and the R rating shouldn't require ID - dewey
[2001-06-14 10:44:00] - dewey: Uh, what does porn "ply" children's minds into? -logan
[2001-06-14 10:44:00] - vinnie: i know it's not a perfect analogy, but i hope you get what i'm trying to say -dave
[2001-06-14 10:44:00] - dave: Who is to say what the best way to raise your kids is though? Is it you or the government? -paul
[2001-06-14 10:44:00] - Once a child reaches a certain stage of intellectual maturity (usually that stage where you let them handle their own money to some degree), you have to trust them to make their own decisions. -logan
[2001-06-14 10:44:00] - I am all for better parenting. There should be classes or something, but there also has to be safegaurds. I don't feel that porn should be seen by children whose minds are still very pliable. - dewey
[2001-06-14 10:44:00] - vinnie: that's getting a little sketchy, you could also say, what if i want my child to beat up your child? are you going to acknowledge my wishes? -dave
[2001-06-14 10:43:00] - dave: I could argue that letting your kid smoke is the right way to raise your child. -logan
[2001-06-14 10:43:00] - But in my life experiences, at least on the small scale, anarchy has worked fine. Occasionally you have to engage force to oust someone that is damaging everybody, but that's the exception rather than the norm. -logan
[2001-06-14 10:42:00] - paul: Yes. It hasn't been established either way. -logan
[2001-06-14 10:42:00] - logan: i dont' think we're arguing that the best way is to raise your kid right. but the fact of the matter is that many parents will not. so you have to deal with it -dave
[2001-06-14 10:41:00] - logan: the order that formed in society was government. People realized that a person who can step back and view the world picture was needed. - dewey
[2001-06-14 10:41:00] - logan: But you could also argue that government forms naturally from society... -paul
[2001-06-14 10:41:00] - dewey: what if I want my child to be able to see an R movie without my assistance? are you also going to ackknowledge my wishes? - vinnie
[2001-06-14 10:41:00] - Trust me, society will do a far worse job than you ever would. -logan
[2001-06-14 10:40:00] - dewey: So why don't you do just that, instead of relying on society to raise your child? -logan
[2001-06-14 10:40:00] - paul: exactly what i was thinking
-dave[2001-06-14 10:40:00] - dewey: The issue is that you (the hypothetical parent) wish to control how your child spends his or her money. -logan
[2001-06-14 10:40:00] - dewey: How is that my responsibility? -logan
[2001-06-14 10:40:00] - logan: i disagree, i think it is a deterrent - you would see a lot more people trying it out if it were legal methinks -dave
[2001-06-14 10:39:00] - You're fostering mistrust by forcing people to require state IDs to establish age, all for nothing. -logan
[2001-06-14 10:39:00] - agree with logan, that is - vinnie
[2001-06-14 10:39:00] - "allowed by whom? if that's their choice (and their parents let them)" your responsibility to see that their parent's wishes are acknowledged. - dewey
[2001-06-14 10:39:00] - dave: I know, it's like the green party's "Ecological Wisdom, Equality, and Peace" or whatever it is
-paul[2001-06-14 10:39:00] - logan: if everyone raised their kids right, then we wouldnt' have to have any laws whatsoever
-dave[2001-06-14 10:38:00] - I put "black market" in quotes. By that I meant that they acquire cigarettes through illegitimate means. -logan
[2001-06-14 10:38:00] - dewey: i definitely agree here. it's not enough of a deterrent - vinnie
[2001-06-14 10:38:00] - Even with the unfair responsibilities that law-makers place on vendors, children are still acquiring cigarettes.
[2001-06-14 10:38:00] - logan: i don't think saying that kids will have to buy cigarettes on the black market is a very accurate description -dave
[2001-06-14 10:38:00] - dewey: It's not really a deterrent. Look at how many kids smoke. -logan
[2001-06-14 10:37:00] - paul: The idea is that government is an unneeded, burdensome beast. I believe that order forms in society without the need of an oppressive government. -logan
[2001-06-14 10:37:00] - black market = harder to get and more expensive = another deterent - dewey
[2001-06-14 10:36:00] - And why is it ok for kids to see some movies but not others? -logan
[2001-06-14 10:36:00] - logan: No government, right? So basically the only laws are the laws of capitalism? -paul
[2001-06-14 10:36:00] - logan: great definition of anarchocapitalism there, haha. -dave
[2001-06-14 10:36:00] - dewey: Why is it my responsibility to keep your kid from seeing some movie? -logan
[2001-06-14 10:36:00] - Or wouldn't you rather rely on raising an intelligent son or daughter who could hopefully make good choices for the most part on his or her own? -logan
[2001-06-14 10:36:00] - I think the "escort required into movie" thing is crap, but the purchase restriction is good. - dewey
[2001-06-14 10:35:00] - If you were a parent, and you felt so strongly about the smoking issue, do you really believe that the fact that your son or daughter would have to get cigarettes on the black market (so to speak) would allow you to sleep safely? -logan
[2001-06-14 10:35:00] - And movie restrictions: how do you prevent a kid from going to see "Child's Play" if their parents don't want them to? You don't let minors buy the tickets. - dewey
[2001-06-14 10:34:00] - and my grandpa started when he was 10- died at 45 from a heart attack cause he smoked 3 packs a day. - dewey
[2001-06-14 10:34:00] - dewey: Where do the children get cigarette money? -logan
[2001-06-14 10:33:00] - My mom started when she was 12. -logan
[2001-06-14 10:33:00] - logan: how do you know if the parents have given permission for the child to smoke? If they buy the cigarettes and then give them to the child, then ok (shame on them!) - dewey
[2001-06-14 10:33:00] - paul: Freedom + respect = anarchocapitalism. -logan
[2001-06-14 10:32:00] - ironically, most of the people i know who smoke started when they were around 15. does that say something? -dave
[2001-06-14 10:32:00] - logan: Hurray! you're back! You need to teach me your anarch-capitalist (or whatever) theories sometime -paul
[2001-06-14 10:31:00] - My 15 year old cousin smokes. She even had the intelligence and "balls" to discuss it with her mom. Gotta respect that. -logan
[2001-06-14 10:31:00] - And do you really believe that the age restrictions on tobacco sales are really keeping anyone from smoking? -logan
[2001-06-14 10:30:00] - jdb: Is it safe to assume you don't like him because of his strong religious views? Is there more? -paul
[2001-06-14 10:30:00] - dewey: Allowed by whom? If that's their choice (and their parents let them), who are you or anyone else to say otherwise? -logan
[2001-06-14 10:30:00] - And placing age restrictions on the sale of tobacco and alcohol and movies and video games is not serving any good. It actually causes harm. -logan
[2001-06-14 10:29:00] - logan: define private. Is tabacco a private trade? Should children (who are easy prey to advertising) be allowed to smoke, and therefor be addicted for the rest of their lives? - dewey
[2001-06-14 10:29:00] - If you're going to create a new class of criminal activities, it had better serve some objective good. -logan
[2001-06-14 10:29:00] - dagnabit, now i'm even talking to myself, i gotta slow the typing down, hehe -dave
[2001-06-14 10:28:00] - I don't see what you're accomplishing by restricting trade with minors. -logan
[2001-06-14 10:28:00] - dave: oops, porn and alcohol -dave
[2001-06-14 10:28:00] - dave: Sure. -logan
[2001-06-14 10:28:00] - logan: private trade meaning what? pron and alcohol? -dave
[2001-06-14 10:27:00] - And child labor laws harm "children." -logan
[2001-06-14 10:27:00] - dewey: like colonial philadelphia or richmond. not half as big as 1.5 million though i don't think -dave
[2001-06-14 10:27:00] - dewey: Nope, I don't see why we consider alcohol to be such a dangerous thing when kids can vote, fight a war, smoke, and view porn before drinking legally -paul
[2001-06-14 10:26:00] - I don't think any private trade should be age restricted. -logan
[2001-06-14 10:22:00] - can you imagine that? A whole city without power. weird - dewey
[2001-06-14 10:21:00] - virginia tech used to have a bar in squires for students
-jdb[2001-06-14 10:21:00] - Vinnie: did you know the largest city without power is 1.5 million; in africa - dewey
[2001-06-14 10:21:00] - dave: initially, probably a lot. i'm sure, in the long-term, it wouldn't be so bad. -jdb
[2001-06-14 10:20:00] - i wonder how much drinking would actually go up if they lowered the age? -dave
[2001-06-14 10:20:00] - mig: i agree with dewey's 3gig assessment. be sure to install win2k on a non-ntfs partition if you want to easily share things. -jdb
[2001-06-14 10:20:00] - paul: i really don't care for ashcroft. -jdb
[2001-06-14 10:20:00] - and who are they fooling anyways? 18 year old kids in college drink all they want. -dave
[2001-06-14 10:17:00] - "Whew, that was quite a battle today guys. five of my friends were killed. lets go drown our sorrows in a soda." Doesn't seem right, does it? - dewey
[2001-06-14 10:16:00] - "Horton Hears a 'Who's Your Daddy!': Horton's adventures in prison" - vinnie
[2001-06-14 10:14:00] - dave: Except my medication doesn't allow alcohol. And I agree that our ages for doing various stuff is screwed up -paul
[2001-06-14 10:11:00] - although i think it's kinda stupid that you can be drafted and get shot at for your country, but you can't drink at 18 -dave
[2001-06-14 10:11:00] - just for the record, i'm not sure whether i think the drinking age should be lowered or not -dave
[2001-06-14 10:10:00] - hehe, wine is supposed to be very good for your arteries. clears cholesterol right up paul
-dave[2001-06-14 10:06:00] - I'm sure people in Europe probably also drink more then in the US, that's not necessarily a problem -paul
[2001-06-14 10:05:00] - aaron: Except you are making the mistake of classifying smokers as problems -paul
[2001-06-14 10:03:00] - Oh okay okay. Yes, thank you. I'm still not sure whether or not there's a direct cause-and-effect correlation between drinking age and drinking/driving incidents but if this australia thing is true, then that's good evidence for it. - aaron
[2001-06-14 10:02:00] - where you asked, not where you saked -dave
[2001-06-14 10:02:00] - "The Baha Men let the dogs out....i have to go let them back in" bahahaha! - vinnie
[2001-06-14 10:02:00] - aaron: i was referring to your statement where you saked miguel if that was what he was implying. i was answering and saying yes that was what he was implying -dave
[2001-06-14 10:01:00] - aaron: i know, i was replying to you earlier statemet, not the most recent -dave
[2001-06-14 10:00:00] - aaron: i think there is something to be said for having a very low drinking age like in europe. the kids there grow up with alcohol and learn to deal with it at an early age. so when they start driving, they know their limits and stuff -dave
[2001-06-14 10:00:00] - dave: But that's not what I said, dave. I said that less restrictive rules may not result in less abuse. I said the opposite of what miguel was implying. - aaron
[2001-06-14 09:59:00] - aaron: he cites australia as an example. they raised the drinking age and got more incidents as well -dave
[2001-06-14 09:57:00] - aaron: that is exactly what mig was implying - that we have more drunk driving incidents because they raised the drinking age -dave
[2001-06-14 09:55:00] - My point being that less restrictive rules do not necessarily result in less abuse - aaron
[2001-06-14 09:54:00] - paul: Europe has much less restrictive smoking laws in general and they also have more problems with smoking people in general - aaron
[2001-06-14 09:54:00] - paul: yes, some popular politician - vinnie
[2001-06-14 09:51:00] - aaron: Random fact, Europe has much less restrictive drinking laws in general and they also have less problems with intoxicated people in general -paul
[2001-06-14 09:46:00] - mig: There are also more non-drunk driving related accidents today than ever, so I don't think raising the age limit on drinking acually increased the number of drunk-driving accidents, if that's what you're implying - aaron
[2001-06-14 09:41:00] - vinnie: You mean a politician in particular? -paul
[2001-06-14 09:40:00] - http://www.babe-test.com/ Lots of 'friends' characters today. - dewey
[2001-06-14 09:37:00] - also, i somehow want to make fun of the fact that the libertarians put themselves in the uppermost quadrant - vinnie
[2001-06-14 09:35:00] - who's someone that strongly advocates welfare and social security? we could have them be further left then robin hood
- vinnie[2001-06-14 09:33:00] - paul: just me? i need some more ideas. how bout I come up with something rough and everyone helps me improve on it? - vinnie
[2001-06-14 09:31:00] - vinnie: Sounds good then, I'll be interested to see what you come up with
-paul[2001-06-14 09:30:00] - mig: It was done by the advocates for self government (a libertarian group) so I think it was just to be fair to everybody that they did a little self-parody as well -paul
[2001-06-14 09:26:00] - there were libretarian barbs in that link i noticed. - mig
[2001-06-14 09:26:00] - yeah, but they didn't do it as well as they could. they need the chart too - vinnie
[2001-06-14 09:26:00] - we could have some funny stuff like have people that fall completely off the chart (pat robertson) and other funny questions - vinnie
[2001-06-14 09:25:00] - vinnie: That's what that parody was suppose to be a parody of... kind of -paul
[2001-06-14 09:24:00] - the one with the four quadrants: authoritarian, liberal, conservative, libertarian - vinnie
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