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[2004-06-15 17:54:38] - Vinnie: I'm sorry. -Paul

[2004-06-15 17:54:33] - mel: that's only three notebooks - travis

[2004-06-15 17:54:03] - travis: wow, every room in your apartment??  I should try that.  -mel

[2004-06-15 17:53:38] - vinnie: damn.    -mel

[2004-06-15 17:53:31] - vinnie: yup, that's why i have notebooks in every room of my apartment and carry one in my bag (if i remember the bag) - travis

[2004-06-15 17:53:28] - travis: yes, the balance is crucial.  you kept me going for awhile though.  -mel

[2004-06-15 17:53:12] - she offered everyone cookies - vinnie

[2004-06-15 17:52:27] - mel: it's hard to write double meaning stuff like that well, though, because you have to balance dropping hints and not being too obvious - travis

[2004-06-15 17:52:02] - I commented on pierce's journal that I have to write down ideas as soon as I get them. otherwise, they vanish. back in college, I woke up in the middle of the night with the idea for that robot comic and I got out of bed and wrote it down before going back to bed - vinnie

[2004-06-15 17:51:32] - Mel: Yeah. Poor, poor Alice... -Paul

[2004-06-15 17:51:13] - hmmm, judging by the grammar at the beginning of that last post, i might not be the best to ask about writing - travis

[2004-06-15 17:51:00] - Vinnie: But did she offer anybody else cookies? That's the important part. -Paul

[2004-06-15 17:50:50] - vinnie: ah, ok.  thanks for the update,  I was still wondering.  -mel

[2004-06-15 17:50:19] - Travis: I liked the double meaning concept.  -mel

[2004-06-15 17:50:16] - the best i can give you use to keep an out eye while you're reading/watching stuff and take a few notes.  i used to watch "beyond belief" and write down any of the stories that interested me so i can go back and use them - travis

[2004-06-15 17:50:01] - all: sorry, I went home. she's married and about fifteen years older than me, I'd guess. definitely not hitting on me - vinnie

[2004-06-15 17:49:37] - Paul: haha.  That story where the guy was killing the girl was a trip.  -mel

[2004-06-15 17:48:53] - wow, two adverb+adverb uses in one post - travis

[2004-06-15 17:48:16] - mel: yeah, i don't usually actively try to come up with stuff to write.  i got an idea last monday that i've been adding to ever since without actually directly writing anything except a few sleep deprived ramblings - travis

[2004-06-15 17:46:21] - all of those stories on my livejournal (except the ones from high school) were mostly stream of concious, usually sparked by something that popped into my head on the drive home from work that day - travis

[2004-06-15 17:45:42] - Mel: All of Travis' stories come from personal experience. -Paul

[2004-06-15 17:45:41] - travis: thats cool.  I have started keeping a little notebook too where I write random stuff.  That seems to work pretty well.  If I'm actively trying to come up with an idea, I rarely come up with any good ones.  -mel

[2004-06-15 17:45:15] - usually i get one neat (to me, at least) idea and then think around it - travis

[2004-06-15 17:44:01] - mel: i'd like to say i have some method to my madness but usually my ideas just come from daydreaming.  i try to keep a notebook around me at all times so i can jot down random ideas and let them kick around in my head for a little while - travis

[2004-06-15 17:43:41] - Mel: *Shrug* My story ideas aren't terribly original. Oftentimes they're just a mishmash of stuff that I've seen/read before and liked. I've only really got one chapter of a story actually written right now so I'm probably not the guy to ask. -paul

[2004-06-15 17:40:18] - Paul: so how do you get your ideas for your writing?  -mel

[2004-06-15 17:38:47] - Mel: Might as well, people can always comment on it tonight or tomorrow morning too. -Paul

[2004-06-15 17:36:59] - Paul: wondering whether to introduce something new or not before you go.  -mel

[2004-06-15 17:36:35] - travis: are you still there?  hey, how do you get ideas for your stories?  I am trying to write something right now.  -mel

[2004-06-15 17:36:32] - Mel: I'll probably be leaving work in 15 minutes or so, why? -Paul

[2004-06-15 17:34:58] - Paul: Its getting quiet here...  -mel

[2004-06-15 17:34:37] - Paul: so are you going home soon? -mel

[2004-06-15 17:33:02] - Paul: possibly.  It was an angle I hadn't considered yet.  -mel

[2004-06-15 17:31:19] - Mel: No offense to Vinnie, but my guess is this woman of unknown age and marital status probably offered cookies to the whole office and doesn't particularly have a thing for Vinnie. -Paul

[2004-06-15 17:28:45] - Paul: yes, it is very straightforward so if thats really how it happened then the girl must really like Vinnie.  It should be possible for him to tell, based on who else she offered cookie to and what exactly she said when she was joing with him.  -mel

[2004-06-15 17:26:18] - Mel: Well, if a girl did that and offered the cookies to only one guy then I would definitely agree with you. I guess I've just never seen a girl be that straightforward before. -Paul

[2004-06-15 17:25:16] - Travis: Fine. I ammend my comment to say "In real life, it's not been my experience..." -paul

[2004-06-15 17:24:46] - Paul: well guys DO get stuck with having to take most of the initiative in our society.  As you have often said.  Baking cookies, offering them to you, and then joking about it afterwards all amount to a lot of initiative.  What is the girl's motive for putting in so much effort?  usually girls do stuff like that because they like the guy.  -mel

[2004-06-15 17:24:28] - paul: obviously you need to watch more anime - travis

[2004-06-15 17:20:53] - Mel: Vinnie probably is on his way home, although he has been known to post from home. It's not been my experience that women are so predictable as to equate offering cookies with a sign of interest. -Paul

[2004-06-15 17:19:25] - Paul: I was being serious though.  Girls don't just offer their cookies to anyone.  -mel

[2004-06-15 17:18:58] - Paul: not really but I thought it sounded funny.  -mel

[2004-06-15 17:18:38] - Paul: exactly.  I totally agree.  is vinnie still here?  -mel

[2004-06-15 17:18:26] - Mel: Is that supposed to be a euphemism? -Paul

[2004-06-15 17:17:58] - Mel: Exactly. In which case all conventional wisdom goes out the window. -Paul

[2004-06-15 17:17:49] - Paul: because girls don't just go around offering their cookies to just anyone...    -mel

[2004-06-15 17:17:21] - Paul: Thats a whole new twist though.  If she was young and single, I think its likely she was hitting on Vinnie.  -mel

[2004-06-15 17:16:44] - Paul:  oh yeah, I forgot.  good point.  then it could be anyone.  -mel

[2004-06-15 17:16:06] - Mel: I thought she HADN'T baked them... Vinnie only thought she had. -Paul

[2004-06-15 17:14:51] - what young single girl would be baking cookies?  -mel

[2004-06-15 17:14:39] - I pictured her to be middle aged.  -mel

[2004-06-15 17:13:03] - Vinnie: Ok, I gotta ask. Was the girl that offered you cookies cute, single, and around your age? -Paul

[2004-06-15 17:11:24] - vinnie:   yes, I do seem to have some issues with food stories.  -mel

[2004-06-15 17:09:42] - Mel: Yeah, I would ask what kind of cookies they were too and if that offends them, then maybe they won't ask if I want a cookie next time and thus avoid the whole situation. -Paul

[2004-06-15 17:09:28] - oh mel, you and your laughing at people's food stories... - vinnie

[2004-06-15 17:08:57] - Mel: I would use my powers of force persuasion to convince them to give me ALL the cookies... wait, this isn't Knight of the Old Republic... -Paul

[2004-06-15 17:07:57] - Paul: Thats exactly what I was thinking about.    -mel

[2004-06-15 17:07:41] - Paul: really I think the right thing to do is ask what kind of cookie it is.  People should stop being so damn sensitive.  Thats what I think.  -mel

[2004-06-15 17:07:23] - Mel: It's ok, we already know you're mean because you laughed at Vinnie and his meatloaf story. -Paul

[2004-06-15 17:06:10] - vinnie: it was a shitty ting to do though.  -mel

[2004-06-15 17:05:35] - vinnie: I was cracking up.  Which I know makes me sound mean, but something about the whole situation was so amusing,  -mel

[2004-06-15 17:04:00] - yeah, what a shitty thing to do though. at least have the courtesy to finish it - vinnie

[2004-06-15 17:03:57] - Vinnie: There you have it. The correct answer was to just politely decline and offer up some low-carb mumbo-jumbo excuse. Or compliment their deliciously arousing feet. -Paul

[2004-06-15 17:03:28] - hahaha, like seinfeld. except she didn't try to take it out and eat it - vinnie

[2004-06-15 17:03:12] - Mel: Heh, I would be pretty mad too. Theft AND waste. -Paul

[2004-06-15 17:02:41] - Paul: yes, unless you are absolutely sure that you'll be able to choke it down.  -mel

[2004-06-15 17:02:13] - Paul: At my previous job, people use to keep stuff in the company fridges,  The main secretary once put a big slice of cheesecake in the fridge after lunch.  She returned in the afternoon to find it gone.  She found it laying on top in the trash, with one bite eaten out of it.  I remember she was so mad.  -mel

[2004-06-15 17:02:06] - paul: even that can be interpreted as rude - vinnie

[2004-06-15 17:01:38] - Mel: So basically the solution is to just politely decline anything people offer you, just to be safe. -Paul

[2004-06-15 17:00:50] - Paul: Definitely worse.  -mel

[2004-06-15 17:00:17] - Mel: Ok, so here is the question then. What if somebody offers me a cookie. I gratefully accept without asking questions. Take a bite, then throw the rest away. Better or worse? -Paul

[2004-06-15 17:00:08] - ack, apropos of both conversations, I meant - vinnie

[2004-06-15 16:59:30] - hahaha, nice link in the title. apropos - vinnie

[2004-06-15 16:59:25] - Vinnie: Hell, and "arousing". -Paul

[2004-06-15 16:59:11] - Paul: yes, I think thats the idea.  The cookie is free, so its more rude to ask what kind of cookie it is than if you had to pay for it.  Because you must think it might be so bad it might not even be worth eating even though its free.  -mel

[2004-06-15 16:59:07] - Vinnie: No, I'm pretty sure this has nothing to do with the workplace. I think it has more to do with having "delicious" and "feet" in the same sentence. -Paul

[2004-06-15 16:58:21] - paul: most sexual things in the workplace sound creepy - vinnie

[2004-06-15 16:57:48] - Vinnie: Even that doesn't sound sexual at all. Just creepy. -Paul

[2004-06-15 16:57:25] - Mel: So basically don't look a gift horse in the mouth? -Paul

[2004-06-15 16:57:18] - "nice shoes. they fit your deliciously arousing feet so snugly" - vinnie

[2004-06-15 16:56:46] - vinnie: "want a cookie."  "hmm, I'm not sure.  how many grams of net carbs does it have?" -mel

[2004-06-15 16:56:04] - sorry to sound like an infomercial for a second there - vinnie

[2004-06-15 16:56:00] - Paul: yes I know.    But thats the idea.  If someone tried to sell you a cookie, it would be ok to ask what kind of cookie it was.  -mel

[2004-06-15 16:55:49] - Mel: I hope so, since the guy who said it was married, and not to the coworker. -Paul

[2004-06-15 16:55:27] - breads that are made with whole grains can be eaten on low-carb diets (and add much needed fiber) - vinnie

[2004-06-15 16:55:21] - vinnie: ah.  I didn't know that.  0mel

[2004-06-15 16:55:00] - Mel: Ok, well, if some random guy off the street offered to perform the surgery for me as a favor, I would probably still not feel bad asking if he had experience doing it. -Paul

[2004-06-15 16:54:46] - vinnie: "want a cookie?" "what kind?" "chocolate chip." "oh, no thanks, I'm trying to cut back on carbs  I was hoping it was a low carb cookie.  Riiight..."  -mel

[2004-06-15 16:54:18] - carb counting counts net carbs, which doesn't include dietary fiber. so a high-fiber bread will be low carb - vinnie

[2004-06-15 16:53:32] - Paul: haha.  nice shoes is the such a generic safe non-sexual compliment.  -mel

[2004-06-15 16:53:06] - vinnie: how is that?  -mel

[2004-06-15 16:53:04] - Vinnie: "No thanks, did you lose some weight? You good today. Nice shoes." Actually, I heard somebody use the nice shoes line today on a female coworker. -Paul

[2004-06-15 16:52:52] - Paul: but thats a business transaction.  Thats the difference.  -mel

[2004-06-15 16:52:34] - low carb bread isn't an oxymoron actually. I meant to respond to pierce about that - vinnie

[2004-06-15 16:52:26] - vinnie: it would be so quality if you really said that.  Dare you to do it next time she offers you a cookie.  I bet she'll laugh.  -mel

[2004-06-15 16:51:57] - Dave: Well, I wouldn't feel the least bit bad asking a doctor if he had any experience performing a certain type of surgery that he was about to perform on me. -Paul

[2004-06-15 16:51:52] - "want a cookie?" "what kind" "chocolate chip." "no thanks, I'm cutting back on snacks." "then why did you ask what kind?" *storms off* - vinnie

[2004-06-15 16:51:04] - I saw a new double chocolate lw carb cookie at Subway.  Something about low carb cookies makes me instantly distrustful.  I liked Pierce's point the other day about Panera coming out with a low carb menu,  That is really selling out at its best.  -mel

[2004-06-15 16:51:01] - mel: that doesn't work either! invent better excuses - vinnie

[2004-06-15 16:50:48] - Mel: Yup, basically stay as far away from saying "I don't like your cooking" as possible. -Paul

[2004-06-15 16:50:02] - dave: I think most people would just stay offended.  -mel

[2004-06-15 16:49:32] - vinnie: you should say you are trying ti cut back on carbs.    -mel

[2004-06-15 16:49:17] - Paul: yeah, well you're just weird. Most people just stay offended ^_^ -dave

[2004-06-15 16:48:33] - Paul: yes, exactly.  The safest thing to do if you refsue is provide a good non-personal reason why you don't want the cookie.  -mel

[2004-06-15 16:48:28] - Paul: You should be like, I don't want to get fat like you, hehehehhe -dave

[2004-06-15 16:48:16] - "I'm trying to cut back on snacks" um, this clearly doesn't work... - vinnie

[2004-06-15 16:48:14] - Dave: Hmmm, yeah, I might be initially offended but as soon as I thought about it I wouldn't be bothered since they just want to make sure that their computer is fixed by somebody who knows what they are doing. -Paul

[2004-06-15 16:47:04] - Mel: Agreed. That's why if I decided to turn them down after hearing what kind they were, I would add something like "I just don't like nuts" or "I'm trying to cut back on snacks" or something. -Paul\

[2004-06-15 16:46:58] - Paul: it's just the idea of being ungrateful for something someone is willing to give you -dave

[2004-06-15 16:46:45] - Paul: ok yeah. well how about this, you offer to help someone fix some computer problem they're having, and then they ask you whether you have a degree in computer repair etc. Not exactly the same, but same gist -dave

[2004-06-15 16:46:13] - I still don't like nuts very much but I can at least  stomach a cookie with them - although i prefer my cookies nutless, if someone made them I can tolerate them... What kind of cookies wouldn't i eat? Hmmmm..... - aaron

[2004-06-15 16:46:12] - yay! NUTS ARE YOUR FRIENDS - vinnie

[2004-06-15 16:45:49] - aaron: I've been getting more tolerant too.  I was similarly swayed by Snickers.    -mel

[2004-06-15 16:45:41] - Dave: Well, if they just told me the sunglasses looked weird without me asking, that's different than me asking about the cookies if somebody offers. -Paul

[2004-06-15 16:45:16] - mel: I used to be like that but I've gotten more tolerant. "Payday" kind of swayed my opinion on nuts - aaron

[2004-06-15 16:44:43] - Paul: yes, i think it does depend on the gender, but particularly if the person is female and made the cookies.  Then there is a higher expectation for the quality of the cookies and so people can get sensitive if you imply that you might not like it.  -mel

[2004-06-15 16:44:27] - vinnie: people like Paul! hehe -dave

[2004-06-15 16:44:14] - Vinnie: That's a good example about the pizza, though. And you even know that it makes a difference with me. -Paul

[2004-06-15 16:43:44] - paul: yeah, women much more sensitive to that sort of thing most of the time -dave

[2004-06-15 16:43:26] - Vinnie: There are a lot of cookies out there that I don't particularly care to eat. I'll eat them, but I don't want to. -Paul

[2004-06-15 16:43:11] - vinnie: well I hate nuts.  So >1%    -mel

[2004-06-15 16:43:00] - vinnie: I think that really depends. I personally like almost all cookies, but I know some people can be picky about it -dave

[2004-06-15 16:42:46] - Mel: It probably also depends on the gender. I don't know many men at all who would care if you asked what kind of cookie (or whatever) it was that you were offering. -Paul

[2004-06-15 16:42:19] - c'mon, how often is a cookie bad? it must be less than 1% - vinnie

[2004-06-15 16:41:53] - paul: hahaha, I'm gonna get offended next time we order pizza and you ask here we're getting it from - vinnie

[2004-06-15 16:41:53] - Paul: like if someone told you your sunglasses looked weird, you'd get offended. But logically, ok so they look weird, what difference does that make? -dave

[2004-06-15 16:41:44] - Vinnie: Had I thought it through, I probably still would've asked. -Paul

[2004-06-15 16:41:02] - paul: exactly. it was a reflex. had I thought it through I would've just accepted. but my sitting there blank would've brought on problems of its own - vinnie

[2004-06-15 16:40:46] - Paul: well, feeling offended is rarely logical ^_^ -dave

[2004-06-15 16:40:27] - Paul: yeah, I think it somewhat depends on the agressiveness of the question.    -mel

[2004-06-15 16:39:48] - Travis: You're a good example of why it can make sense to ask what is being served. It is considered rude, though. -Paul

[2004-06-15 16:38:43] - Vinnie: It's actually somewhat of a reflex for me. If somebody asks me if I want something, my first response is to ask a question to figure out if I DO want it. If they just want you to take a cookie, why bother asking if you want it? -Paul

[2004-06-15 16:38:29] - my god, there are rules of etiquette about this kind of stuff?  i'd ask what kind of cookie it was cause there's lots of kinds i don't like and i'd ask what food is being served for dinner (isn't nicer if i know in advance what to expect so i don't gape in disgust when the food comes out? ) - travis

[2004-06-15 16:37:19] - it should have been the logical thing too. I can't remember the last cookie I had that I disliked - vinnie

[2004-06-15 16:34:19] - Vinnie: My answer: The polite thing would've been to just accept gratefully and eat whatever it was even if you hate it. Logically, I see no problem with (and indeed think it's better) asking what kind of cookie it is though. -Paul

[2004-06-15 16:34:08] - vinnie: ah.  see that makes a big difference doesn't it?  -mel

[2004-06-15 16:33:48] - vinnie: if she said something like "I made some cookie this past weekend.  would you like to try one" which emphasizes that she herself made the cookies, it might be more rude to ask what kind than if she just offers you a cokkie to share.  -mel

[2004-06-15 16:33:46] - I assumed she had made them - vinnie

[2004-06-15 16:33:09] - mel: no, no, she actually bought the cookies. but when she asked me, I couldn't tell that - vinnie

[2004-06-15 16:32:38] - Paul: same here.  I think if she's your friend (or at least friendly) she should be able to tolerate that question.  -mel

[2004-06-15 16:32:18] - anyway, I know she wasn't really offended because they kind of laughed when I said it. but there is a weirdness there - vinnie

[2004-06-15 16:31:57] - vinnie:  oh!  I didn't realize she MADE the cookie.  ok that changes everything.  -mel

[2004-06-15 16:31:46] - To me, it doesn't make sense to be offended if somebody asks what kind of cookie it is, but I also acknowledge that some people might find it to be rude. -Paul

[2004-06-15 16:31:08] - mel: better in terms of "she has more cookies", yes, but not in terms of "our friendship hinges on the type of cookies you make" - vinnie

[2004-06-15 16:30:59] - I guess there is also a difference between what is actually rude and what I think makes sense as being rude. -Paul

[2004-06-15 16:30:53] - dave: I can see your point about looking picky/ungrateful.  Its basically some sort of risk tradeoff.  What are the chances you won't like the cookie and what are the chances you will offend her?  -mel

[2004-06-15 16:29:40] - vinnie: in the case I mentioned, both of you would be happier if you had just asked her what kind of cookie.  -mel

[2004-06-15 16:29:33] - Dave: I guess I understand what you're saying. But there are certain types of cookies I don't like and it seems silly to take one and force myself to eat something I don't like when I could just ask and save everyone the trouble. -Paul

[2004-06-15 16:29:00] - vinnie: with dinner, its different because they are making it.  But with the cookie, maybe you don't like certain kinds.  Wouldn't it be worse if you said yes and took her (lets say oatmeal) cookie and then choked it down although you hate (oatmeal) cookies and she likes them?  It would have been better if she kept her cookie.  -mel

[2004-06-15 16:28:40] - dave: well, that wasn't her explanation even if it was her reasoning - vinnie

[2004-06-15 16:27:01] - Vinnie: I might have asked what kind too, but I think it's on the rude side because you come across as picky / ungrateful. -dave

[2004-06-15 16:26:30] - Vinnie: Both female coworkers? -Paul

[2004-06-15 16:25:43] - *weirdness

[2004-06-15 16:25:29] - Paul: if you have special needs, you just tell them you can't eat meat etc. You don't ask what they're making ^_^ -dave

[2004-06-15 16:25:11] - Paul: I think the dinner thing is a little more black and white. You should ask what they're making because you're implying that you won't show up if you don't like what food they cook. It's like saying, I will only come over and be your friend if you cook food I like. -dave

[2004-06-15 16:24:51] - paul: well, it was kind of a joke lecture but when I asked what kind, both her and my other co-worker across the hall paused as if I'd done something. so there is some sort of weird there at least - vinnie

[2004-06-15 16:23:50] - Paul: I think the point is it's a little rude to refuse the cookie just because you don't like what kind it is. It's kinda implying that you didn't like the person's choice of cookie to make -dave

[2004-06-15 16:23:39] - Vinnie: It might seem a little awkward to ask what somebody is making for dinner, but what if you are a vegetarian or a heart patient and have special dietary needs? -Paul

[2004-06-15 16:22:44] - Vinnie: I think it's rude that she lectured you about that just for asking what kind of cookies they were. -Paul

[2004-06-15 16:21:29] - she pointed out that it's rude to ask someone what they're making if they ask you over for dinner, and I would agree. btw, I don't think I have an opinion either way on this anymore. I'm trying to figure out one - vinnie

[2004-06-15 16:19:56] - Vinnie: I would have no problem asking what kind. There are some kind of cookies I like and some kinds I don't like. -Paul

[2004-06-15 16:19:26] - vinnie: I can't remember if I asked at paul's place! I think i would probably ask.... - aaron

[2004-06-15 16:18:36] - and point out you have an allergy - vinnie

[2004-06-15 16:17:25] - mel: then you should ask specifcally whether they have nuts - vinnie

[2004-06-15 16:15:59] - vinnie: I think its ok to ask what kind.  what if you're allergic to nuts or something?  -mel

[2004-06-15 16:15:39] - for asking, that is - vinnie

[2004-06-15 16:15:17] - ok how about this whopping dilemma: if someone offers you a cookie, do you ask what kind before saying yes or no? my co-worker chided me for doing this to her - vinnie

[2004-06-15 16:12:49] - Vinnie: Oh, heh, I guess so. Well, I guess my question was even worse since there doesn't even seem to be a difference of opinion unless you count me. -Paul

[2004-06-15 16:11:05] - Paul: even if the person doesn't love you back, at least you had the experience of having those feelings. I think it's worth the pain to have that experience -dave

[2004-06-15 16:10:33] - ahem. that's almost exactly like the pleasantville dilemma, and we know which side of that I come down on - vinnie

[2004-06-15 16:10:05] - Paul: former -dave

[2004-06-15 16:10:00] - that

[2004-06-15 16:09:23] - paul: Because i can love somebody else later! wellll okay that's just a lame loophole - aaron

[2004-06-15 16:08:42] - paul: Oh yeah! Definitely the former. - aaron

[2004-06-15 16:08:33] - Vinnie: Why is it no surprise? -Paul

[2004-06-15 16:07:04] - probably no surprise I'm going for the former in paul's scenario - vinnie

[2004-06-15 16:06:31] - Vinnie: Yeah, I figure that if my kids don't care, then at least I didn't screw up. -Paul

[2004-06-15 16:05:49] - for your kids to resent you, they really have to care, in a way. I guess it feels like I at least tried to do something for them, whereas in the other scenario I probably didn't do anything. even though that really doesn't have to follow - vinnie

[2004-06-15 16:04:46] - A better question is the classic: Is it better to love somebody you can never have or is it better to never love at all? -Paul

[2004-06-15 16:03:33] - Aaron: I think one is a lot less awful though. It seems to me that not caring is exactly in between and equidistant from love and hate in terms of how awful they are. -Paul

[2004-06-15 16:01:08] - paul: I think again I go the same way... but i'm still torn. Both are so awful! - aaron

[2004-06-15 16:00:15] - I'd say resented, but again, I'm at a loss to explain why - vinnie

[2004-06-15 16:00:11] - Aaron: Didn't care. -Paul

[2004-06-15 15:59:30] - haha, what a poorly thought out question on my part - vinnie

[2004-06-15 15:59:22] - Here's a more realistic one. Would you rather have kids which resented you, or didn't care about you at all? - aaron

[2004-06-15 15:59:02] - paul: well, I can tell you you couldn't play games. any kind of interaction with that world doesn't work - vinnie

[2004-06-15 15:56:25] - Aaron: Same. I could probably go through the rest of my life being ignored as long as I could watch TV and play my games. Wouldn't be a very happy life, but I would probably avoid going insane. -Paul

[2004-06-15 15:54:21] - As long as i have things - i think i could deal with being ignored - aaron

[2004-06-15 15:53:56] - aaron: you have to read over people's shoulders *shrug* this is getting too complicated - vinnie

[2004-06-15 15:53:03] - Aaron: There was time now! -Paul

[2004-06-15 15:52:30] - vinnie: That gets tricky. Can i still read books? Or do my ghost hands not turn pages... because that's not fair! - aaron

[2004-06-15 15:51:20] - Vinnie: I'm sticking to my original answer of wanting to be ignored. I can think of more fun things to do if I was ignored than if I was hated. -Paul

[2004-06-15 15:50:16] - stealing from people indirectly affects them - vinnie

[2004-06-15 15:50:03] - I think I'll have to change the assumptions though, so that you couldn't steal or anything like that. the goal was that you couldn't affect anyone but they could affect you. let's say you're a ghost - vinnie

[2004-06-15 15:48:39] - what I meant by the fact that you change people's minds would be kind of like messing with them - vinnie

[2004-06-15 15:46:57] - I think being ignored has the same problem of the novelty wearing off. I don't know which I would tire of first - vinnie

[2004-06-15 15:46:24] - Paul: Hehe, I dont' think that's what was intended, but yeah, you could do anything you wanted since the authorities would ignore you too -dave

[2004-06-15 15:43:59] - Aaron: But being ignored could be tons of fun too. It would be just like being invisible. You could sneak in and watch people take a shower and do all sorts of peeping tom stuff. -Paul

[2004-06-15 15:42:26] - Think Marilyn Manson in a world of moms. That might be a little fun once you got over the initial shock of never being liked again (think dawn of the dead!) - aaron

[2004-06-15 15:41:36] - paul: Well, if you were tolerant enough, you could probably still have arguments and such with people who hated you. And you could have fun intentionally pissing them off further if you were that kind of person - aaron

[2004-06-15 15:40:18] - If you're being ignored, you can just steal everything you want/need. If you're hated, well, you won't have a job so you would also have to steal but it would be harder. -Paul

[2004-06-15 15:39:43] - You know, I think they might be actually rather similar, though. Both would lead to a life lived mostly in seclusion. The only difference would be when you HAD to interact with others. Like going to buy food or something. -Paul

[2004-06-15 15:38:25] - It's hard to say. Both extremes are really unpleasant to think about! - aaron

[2004-06-15 15:37:10] - I'm guessing it's the introvert in me that doesn't necessarily think it's so horrible to be left alone by people. -Paul

[2004-06-15 15:35:38] - vinnie: I think it comes from the thought that people like to be noticed or to make some sort of difference. If everyone hates you, at least you are making an impact in some way, you are a dynamic person etc. -dave

[2004-06-15 15:35:19] - Vinnie: You're more likely to be written about in the history books if everybody hates you. Must mean you are on the level of Hitler. -paul

[2004-06-15 15:34:46] - They figured out everybody would disagree with whatever they said, so they voted in favor of changing the racist flag design - aaron

[2004-06-15 15:34:30] - Vinnie: Change their minds in what other ways? -Paul

[2004-06-15 15:34:18] - vinnie: Like the KKK in that south park episode? - aaron

[2004-06-15 15:33:45] - Paul: ahhh, different than what I thought then -dave

[2004-06-15 15:33:38] - no, that was the assumption. they hate you, but they pay attention to you. you can't change their minds about how they feel about you, but you can change their minds in other ways - vinnie

[2004-06-15 15:32:36] - Dave: I guess, but I was operating under the assumption that you couldn't cause people to either notice you, or not hate you. -Paul

[2004-06-15 15:30:35] - Paul: even if a person hates you, they will usually at least notice what you do or maybe let you talk to them sometimes -dave

[2004-06-15 15:29:38] - Paul: well if a person is ignoring you, then they're not going to notice anything you do, that's what I was thinking -dave

[2004-06-15 15:29:37] - i dunno. like I said, I can't fully rationalize it, but I feel like you're at least having some impact if everyone hates you. I guess you'd have to take out the possibility of it being dangerous too, because otherwise your life is a lot shorter - vinnie

[2004-06-15 15:29:13] - vinnie: it's like if you have a girl that you like, it'd be better if she disliked you then entirely ignored you. Better to know something than to be left wondering what it is -dave

[2004-06-15 15:29:12] - vinnie: If you were being ignored by everybody, i can think of a few great jobs! spy for one - aaron

[2004-06-15 15:29:11] - Dave: So we're saying that ignoring is not reversible but hating is? -Paul

[2004-06-15 15:28:13] - paul: don't make me hate you! - aaron

[2004-06-15 15:28:00] - vinnie: I would say hate then. Because at least it gives you hope of working through whatever they hate you for. If they're ignoring you, then there's no hope of working things out with people -dave

[2004-06-15 15:27:52] - it'd probably be impossible to get a job in either scenario I think you'd almost certainly have to do everything yourself - vinnie

[2004-06-15 15:27:41] - Aaron: Just jumping on the bandwagon, eh? -Paul

[2004-06-15 15:26:51] - Vinnie: If everybody hated you, wouldn't it be impossible to get a job? -Paul

[2004-06-15 15:26:45] - paul: For the record, I changed my answer before you posted your answer - aaron

[2004-06-15 15:26:32] - dave: yeah, actively ignored. kind of like a ghost, I guess - vinnie

[2004-06-15 15:26:15] - Actually you know what I just realized? It's probably a lot less dangerous being ignored. Also, you can do pretty much whatever you want and nobody would care. I'll change my answer to "ignored by everyone". - aaron

[2004-06-15 15:26:01] - Aaron: Sixth Sense ghost. -Paul

[2004-06-15 15:25:55] - vinnie: or just that no one notices you? -dave

[2004-06-15 15:25:54] - yet that scenario doesn't seem terribly awful, while being hated by everyone does - vinnie

[2004-06-15 15:25:39] - vinnie: do you mean actively ignored? Like everyone knows you and intentially ignores you but doesn't hate you? -dave

[2004-06-15 15:25:37] - Vinnie: Why would you rather be hated by everybody? -Paul

[2004-06-15 15:25:12] - what's strange is that I can't fully rationalize it. if everyone died off, it'd be the equivalent of being ignored by everyone, wouldn't it? - vinnie

[2004-06-15 15:24:11] - no, not 99.9% I think that makes it too easy - vinnie

[2004-06-15 15:23:32] - If you changed it to like, %99.9 of all people, then I'd probably change my answer though. - aaron

[2004-06-15 15:23:08] - vinnie: Everyone? That's pretty serious. I don't know. So would you rather be a pac man ghost, or a sixth sense ghost? Hmmm... I guess i'll go with pac man ghost - aaron

[2004-06-15 15:21:09] - paul: it's a theoretical question anyway. I think I'd rather be hated by everyone - vinnie

[2004-06-15 15:07:29] - Vinnie: Ignored, IMHO. But I guess I haven't been hated by everybody so I can't compare. -Paul

[2004-06-15 15:01:09] - to relieve boredom, discuss: is it better to be ignored by everyone or hated by everyone? - vinnie

[2004-06-15 14:39:23] - Pierce: Exciting, isn't it? -Paul

[2004-06-15 14:32:29] - Paul: close; I'm learning the nitty-gritties of C# instead. - pierce

[2004-06-15 14:31:13] - Pierce: Learn ASP.NET. You never know when it might come in handy... -Paul

[2004-06-15 14:29:53] - Paul: I'm waiting for someone to call me who went to lunch.  Until he does, I don't have anything to do. - pierce

[2004-06-15 14:29:27] - I'm still on a 10-minute pong! I just don't have much to say - aaron

[2004-06-15 14:25:15] - Pierce: You must be real bored, to be commenting on such old entries in your own journal. -Paul

[2004-06-15 14:19:45] - Pierce: I'm still here. -Vertical Horizon (Paul)

[2004-06-15 14:13:39] - Where the H did everybody go? - pierce

[2004-06-15 13:42:00] - I'm cuckoo for Coco Cox! - pierce

[2004-06-15 13:13:43] - Aaron: Coco Cox Arquette would be funny. -Paul

[2004-06-15 13:10:56] - http://www.canoe.ca/NewsStand/LondonFreePress/Today/2004/06/15/499655.html but will it be named "coco arquette" or "coco cox arquette"? - aaron

[2004-06-15 11:57:18] - http://dvd.ign.com/articles/505/505966p1.html I think this is old news, but there are plans for a Sliders boxed set. -Paul

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