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[2004-10-29 13:39:00] - Mel: And vaccinations aren't one of those necessities? -Paul
[2004-10-29 13:37:53] - Paul: I have a healthy sense of doubt in the government's motivations and actions. I am glad we have some sort of system of checks and balances and I think that government should be held responsible to public inquiry. But from apractical persepctive, I think the govenmment is necessary to accomplish some tasks. -mel
[2004-10-29 13:35:45] - Paul: also, I think the men already had syphilis and they did agree to participate in some sort of study. However, they were not told that they had syphilis and they were not treated for it. So i didn't have all my facts right. -mel
[2004-10-29 13:35:06] - Mel: So you don't trust the government not to perform deadly experiments on it's own people and possibly soldiers, but you trust them to do other stuff?
-paul[2004-10-29 13:34:06] - http://clinton4.nara.gov/textonly/New/Remarks/Fri/19970516-898.html Text of Clinton's apology, in which he states that the study was unethical and racist. -mel
[2004-10-29 13:33:23] - Paul: http://www.npr.org/programs/morning/features/2002/jul/tuskegee/ President Clinton apologized in 1997 to Tuskegee survivors. They weren't soldiers though, I think I was wrong about that. -mel
[2004-10-29 13:31:16] - travis: yes, thats it. The Tuskegee Experiments. I'm pretty sure its true. I don't trust the govenment not to experiment on people. -mel
[2004-10-29 09:33:56] - Travis: Yeah, I'm guessing it's true too, I just wasn't sure if everything on that website is truthful or if some of it is just conspiracy theory. -Paul
[2004-10-29 09:33:17] - Dave: That could be it. All I know is that while the stock is still down from when I bought it, it's up a lot from the low it was at a couple of months ago. -Paul
[2004-10-29 09:32:06] - paul: i've heard enough about the tuskegee experiments before that i'm pretty sure it's true. it got some press when marvel sorta used it as background for retelling the origin of captain america - travis
[2004-10-29 08:57:37] - paul: http://www.anandtech.com/news/shownews.aspx?i=23280 there's the link -dave
[2004-10-29 08:57:13] - Paul: nVidia marketshare in the high-end graphics area went from 26% in Q2 2004 to 64% in Q3 2004. That may be why their stock went up ^_^ -dave
[2004-10-29 08:38:09] - http://www.laweekly.com/ink/04/49/news-ireland.php was abe lincoln gay? - mig
[2004-10-28 21:41:01] - Mel: http://www.abovetopsecret.com/pages/experimentation.html Not sure how truthful this is, but it does back up your syphilis theory. -Paul
[2004-10-28 21:35:42] - Mel: I don't know, but I wouldn't be surprised. -Paul
[2004-10-28 21:35:28] - aba: Why are vaccines scary? -Paul
[2004-10-28 20:15:17] - Paul: didn't the military use to infect thier soldiers with syphilis? -mel
[2004-10-28 20:14:42] - aba: yes, they are. especially when they are somewhat experimental. -mel
[2004-10-28 19:32:40] - vaccines are scary. - aba
[2004-10-28 18:46:38] - Mel: No, but I expected you to have a little more faith in the government. -Paul
[2004-10-28 18:45:09] - Paul: do you ever trust the government?
-mel[2004-10-28 18:32:34] - Mel: You don't trust the government when they say the vaccine is safe? -Paul
[2004-10-28 18:26:10] - Paul: maybe.... -mel
[2004-10-28 18:09:14] - Mel: So now she is safe from Anthrax. -Paul
[2004-10-28 18:05:48] - http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/3961447.stm US court bars forced anthrax shot for military personnel. My sister got the shot... -mel
[2004-10-28 18:01:49] - mig: "Stark" differences, Miguel. Stark. -Paul
[2004-10-28 17:51:55] - http://washingtontimes.com/upi-breaking/20041026-121303-1337r.htm bush supports civil unions. what is exactly the difference between him and kerry again? -mig
[2004-10-28 17:19:47] - Travis: I'm hoping I can leave early, but 5:30 is pretty early and I can only pull it off when everything is running smoothly. Tomorrow we have a deadline and it's possible things might not be running as smoothly so I have to see. -Paul
[2004-10-28 17:13:19] - paul: not a problem, i only cared because i wouldn't stay as long today if i didn't have to take off early tomorrow for bball, but even if you can't make it there's nothing wrong with getting off early on friday
- travis[2004-10-28 17:03:10] - Vinnie: What insinuation were YOU thinking about? -Paul
[2004-10-28 17:01:06] - paul: oh THAT insinuation. haha, communication is such a flawed thing - vinnie
[2004-10-28 16:56:26] - Vinnie: Hey, I'm a murderer and a rapist, you think I care who you're talking to?
-Paul[2004-10-28 16:55:19] - paul: ahem. I was asking travis
- vinnie[2004-10-28 16:50:52] - Vinnie: We usually still have a good hour or so to play. -Paul
[2004-10-28 16:45:32] - travis: you guys are still playing? doesn't it get too dark too quickly? - vinnie
[2004-10-28 16:44:29] - Travis: I think I should be able to show up, but I'm still not 100% sure and unfortunately I won't be 100% sure until tomorrow afternoon.
-Paul[2004-10-28 16:43:54] - Mel: I know, but it's so annoying sometimes and many times I can't even figure out what I said to make them mad.
-Paul[2004-10-28 16:42:48] - paul: on the topic of weekend plans, are you showing up for basketball tomorrow? i thought you mentioned not being able to or something - travis
[2004-10-28 16:41:05] - Paul: People are sensitive. And remember that they care about what you say so you can potentially hurt them. -mel
[2004-10-28 16:39:56] - Paul: very. The whole world feels brighter.
-mel[2004-10-28 16:39:54] - Mel: Strange, because my bluntness is what tends to get me into a lot of trouble with people. -paul
[2004-10-28 16:39:03] - Mel: Well, I'm glad you're feeling better about yourself. I know how that can feel and it's a good feeling.
-Paul[2004-10-28 16:39:00] - Paul: ok good. I like that about you.
-mel[2004-10-28 16:38:20] - Mel: Bah, you don't have to worry about being considerate when talking to me. I actually prefer blunt conversation with more meat and less fluff. Strip out all the "IMHO"s and "Don't take this the wrong way"s and "not to be mean but"s... -Paul
[2004-10-28 16:37:55] - Paul: Its been an interesting time for me lately. My latest project these days is my own self-improvement. I feel like I let myself slide for a long time. Its time to have higher expectations from myself. -mel
[2004-10-28 16:36:43] - Paul: It feels really good to be able to put all of these thoughts that I've been having lately into words. -mel -mel
[2004-10-28 16:35:42] - Paul: Really both of them came from my own lack of confidence. Because see, true confidence doesn't mean speaking without thinking about other people's feelings and your impact on them. Again, this is all how it works for me. I don't want you to ever think that I am telling you what to do. But maybe my experience will be interesting. -mel
[2004-10-28 16:33:39] - paul: gah! no...
- vinnie[2004-10-28 16:33:09] - Mel: You say that now, but I'll bet you didn't think that two days ago.
-Paul[2004-10-28 16:33:05] - Paul: see the funny thing is that I think the same feelings cause me to either not speak at all or speak without thinking. They seem like opposites, but really they have the same motivation inside. -mel
[2004-10-28 16:32:09] - Vinnie: btw, thanks for your insinuation. I appreciate it. -Paul
[2004-10-28 16:31:56] - Paul:
-mel[2004-10-28 16:31:36] - Paul: I don't think so. seriously. -mel
[2004-10-28 16:31:13] - Paul: In my case, if I relax and stop feeling fear or insecurity, it becomes a lot easier to be more considerate and honest. -mel
[2004-10-28 16:31:13] - Mel: Heh, I used to let my fear lead to me not speaking. Now I just speak without thinking. And everybody wishes I would go back to how it was.
-Paul[2004-10-28 16:29:15] - Paul: or for variety, sometimes I let my fear/insecurity lead my thoughts and so I don't speak at all. And both of these outcomes are negative. -mel
[2004-10-28 16:28:37] - travis: I probably won't be around much this weekend... - vinnie
[2004-10-28 16:28:12] - Paul: yes, I'm sure. The reason I said I was immature is because sometimes I let my own issues (my own fear or insecurity usually) lead my thoughts. And that makes me inconsiderate. I speak before I think and sometimes I hurt other people. -mel
[2004-10-28 16:27:55] - paul: I realize it did sound a bit snarky though... - vinnie
[2004-10-28 16:27:30] - paul: nothing wrong with a recurring theme. it just shows that that really has some importance to you. my journal has a recurring theme of movies
- vinnie[2004-10-28 16:27:28] - Mel: "relax and feel peace" Sounds like some sort of self-help/meditation dealie. -Paul
[2004-10-28 16:26:51] - Mel: I'm still not entirely sure what "problem" you supposedly have. Are you sure it was YOUR problem and not somebody else's? -Paul
[2004-10-28 16:26:45] - Paul: It just keeps you in the same place. You shoudl either look more closely to see if there really was something inconsiderate about the way you communicated (and then ask yourself what motivated you) or you should relax and feel peace in knowing that you communicated as well as you could have in that siuation. -mel
[2004-10-28 16:25:24] - Paul: IMHO, you shouldn't apologize for things you say if you don't really think there was anything wrong with it. That solves nothing. -mel
[2004-10-28 16:24:53] - Paul: so you are one step ahead of the game. -mel
[2004-10-28 16:24:23] - paul: well I didn't even realize I had this problem until recently. It was a very painful realiziation. -mel
[2004-10-28 16:23:58] - paul: True knowledge exists in knowing that you know nothing - socrates
[2004-10-28 16:23:25] - vinnie: heh. Well for awhile I did that. (see how I wasn't on the message board?) but saying nothing is no fun and you have a lot of positivity that you can bring to peoples lives. -mel
[2004-10-28 16:23:16] - Mel: Tell me about it. Vinnie can tell you, I've been working on this for awhile.
-Paul[2004-10-28 16:23:00] - vinnie/pierce: are either of you going to be available this weekend so i can drop my car off at merchants to have my brakes checked out? i'd drop it off saturday afternoon and probably wouldn't be able to pick it up until sometime sunday - travis
[2004-10-28 16:22:58] - Travis: I have no idea what you just said. -Paul
[2004-10-28 16:22:31] - Paul: It is hard. -mel
[2004-10-28 16:22:11] - Vinnie: Sorry about the "recurring paul theme", btw. -Paul
[2004-10-28 16:21:58] - mel: heh appropriately, saying nothing is often my compromise between the two - vinnie
[2004-10-28 16:21:46] - Paul: a lot like what your journal says you are working on. -mel
[2004-10-28 16:21:39] - paul: so if vinnie is socrates, does that mean he knows nothing but since he doesn't know that he's not a know-it-all?
- travis[2004-10-28 16:20:23] - Paul: I wasn't on the message board because I was unhappy. I've been working on myself lately. Trying to figure out how to interact better. In a way that doesn't hurt other people and is still true to myself. -mel
[2004-10-28 16:19:56] - Mel: I think that's true, but unfortunately I don't think that helps me much since I have a tendency to say the wrong thing to people who I really and fundamentally feel considerate about. -Paul
[2004-10-28 16:18:41] - Vinnie: Nice try Socrates, but no.
-Paul[2004-10-28 16:18:27] - Paul: See, I think this whole time (in the past) I have been too focused on the wrong questions. I am just starting to understand (I think) what it truly means to think about other people and to be considerate. It has to be real and fundemental. Or else it doesn't work. -mel
[2004-10-28 16:17:46] - Mel: You weren't on the message board because you thought you were being inconsiderate? -Paul
[2004-10-28 16:17:30] - paul: ruined? or enhanced it?? maybe knowing I'm a know-it-all makes me even more of one!
- vinnie[2004-10-28 16:17:20] - Paul: Thats why I decided to post instead. -mel
[2004-10-28 16:17:06] - Paul: I started trying to write a comment but I couldn't write it either. -mel
[2004-10-28 16:16:53] - Paul: yay!! I'm glad because its hard to describe this. But its soemthing I have been struggling with myself lately. And partially the reason why I wasn't on the board for awhile. Its hard to describe and I totally understand why you said that writing the journal was hard. -mel
[2004-10-28 16:15:47] - Mel: Ok, then I think I understand what you're saying. -Paul
[2004-10-28 16:15:09] - Paul: yes. But there are very few people I don't like. -mel
[2004-10-28 16:14:30] - Vinnie: Well, you just ruined your know-it-all aura with that remark.
-Paul[2004-10-28 16:13:55] - Mel: Slightly off topic, if you didn't like somebody and they asked you if you liked them. Would you tell them the truth or not? -Paul
[2004-10-28 16:13:43] - vinnie: I don't think so.
-mel[2004-10-28 16:12:50] - also, I feel like I'm being very know-it-ally here, for whatever reason
- vinnie[2004-10-28 16:12:43] - Paul: If I pretend to just care more about other people, that's when its hard to be honest. -mel
[2004-10-28 16:12:22] - compromise of one and three, gah - vinnie
[2004-10-28 16:12:12] - Paul: ok, what I am trying to say is that as I genuinely am considerate about other peopel, being honest gets easier too. I don't have to watch what I say, because what I want to say is no longer the wrong thing. This is how it has been working for me. -mel
[2004-10-28 16:12:06] - paul: that's why you have to aim for number two, which is for many things a compromise of numbers two and three. basically you need to figure out what kind of compromise you want to make. that's yourself - vinnie
[2004-10-28 16:11:06] - Paul: No. I fundementally don't think so. -mel
[2004-10-28 16:11:04] - Mel: Those are almost mutually exclusive to me. If you're always watching what you say to try to avoid being inconsiderate, it seems like you're not being honest and upfront. -Paul
[2004-10-28 16:10:48] - travis: I think the solution (for me) is that as I genuinely pay more attention to how I affect others around me (grow up) it becomes easier to say the right thing, and I can be honest without worrying about what I am saying. -mel
[2004-10-28 16:10:13] - Mel: But pretty much the entire world disagrees with me (in terms of what I say being bad) so wouldn't it make sense to maybe consider toning down what I say in order to appease the rest of the world, even if I feel it's wrong? -Paul
[2004-10-28 16:09:53] - travis: well it's not simple. Those are two seperate issues I am having. The first is that I can be inconsiderate in what I say. And that is immature, which is why I said I need to grow up. The second is that sometimes I am worried that I will say the wrong thing, so I don't say anything. Thats why I said more honest and up front.... -mel
[2004-10-28 16:08:27] - Vinnie: What if the person that I want to be has two seemingly conflicting traits? -Paul
[2004-10-28 16:08:14] - vinnie: I see where you are coming from. The myself that is easiest to be, the myself that I want to be, and the myself that others want me to be. -mel
[2004-10-28 16:08:10] - mel: to me it's odd that you say "growing up" means being "more honest and up-front" when children are actually the most honest people around because they haven't developed biases and stereotypes and such - travis
[2004-10-28 16:07:10] - Paul: well that's what I was getting at. If you don't really believe that there is anything is wrong with what you say, then if you change it will be for other people and not for yourself. So it won't work well. In that case, you shouldn't change, in my opinion. -mel
[2004-10-28 16:06:49] - ok that was really confusing because I switched between myself and yourself I think - vinnie
[2004-10-28 16:06:10] - since this issue seems to be a recurring paul theme let me lay down my definitive answer: there's the myself that's easiest to be, the myself that you want to be, and the myself that others want you to be. aim for number two - vinnie
[2004-10-28 16:06:09] - haha. I know. -mel
[2004-10-28 16:05:50] - Mel: "only you can decide that" That doesn't help at all.
j/k -Paul[2004-10-28 16:05:19] - Mel: Heh, my problem is I often don't see what's wrong with what I say and even though I sometimes realize that it will upset people, I tend to consider it their problem and not mine and so stopping and thinking doesn't work too well for me.
-Paul[2004-10-28 16:05:05] - Paul: yes! I think you are right. The issue is whether it is really improvement. But I think that only you can decide that. -mel
[2004-10-28 16:04:30] - Mel: You're probably right. But I also think that there are compelling reasons why (no matter how tactful you are) sometimes you should just keep things to yourself and even possibly lie to people. -Paul
[2004-10-28 16:04:22] - Paul: I am working on how I express myself too. I often just say things before I think, forgetting that what I say impacts the people around me. What I am finding is that is better to stop and think for a moment. This is all just how it works for me. -mel
[2004-10-28 16:03:24] - Mel: I agree that being myself and self-improvement are different things. I guess what I'm wondering is if what I would be doing actually is self-improvement at all. -Paul
[2004-10-28 16:02:04] - Paul: I don't think the issue is whether you express yourself (yes, you should, being honest and open is good) but how you express yourself. IMHO.
-mel[2004-10-28 16:01:07] - It's kinda hard to explain (I just spent a couple minutes staring at the screen, wondering how to phrase what I want to say and I still failed). -Paul
[2004-10-28 16:01:06] - a: I was trying to make the point to Paul that I don't think the idea of "being yourself" is incompatible with personal improvement. -mel
[2004-10-28 16:00:07] - Mel: I understand where you're coming from and I pretty much agree. I'm not really considering acting like somebody else or being fake. It's more that I wonder if sometimes it's better if I don't express myself so much (I guess). -Paul
[2004-10-28 15:59:41] - a: To sustain real changes (in yourself), I think you need to want them for yourself. I am changing a lot lately, like I said I am trying to grow up, be less immature and more considerate of other people, more honest and up-front, more open, a lot of things. I don't think this means I am not true to myself. -mel
[2004-10-28 15:58:15] - then i agree. ~a
[2004-10-28 15:58:15] - a: Changing for other people doesn't work well, because its nbot something you really believe in. -mel
[2004-10-28 15:58:02] - ah ~a
[2004-10-28 15:57:25] - a: Thats not what Iw as trying to say at all. I think change is good. But not change for other people. Change for yourself. -mel
[2004-10-28 15:56:41] - damn it, that was meant for adrian. -mel
[2004-10-28 15:56:24] - paul: actually thats not what I was trying to say at all. Although perhaps it came across that way. -mel
[2004-10-28 15:55:03] - mel: paul said that he didn't want to hear "be yourself" and that's basically (with one exception) what you're saying. ~a
[2004-10-28 15:53:00] - paul: do you see where I'm coming from?? Those are my thoughts....
-mel[2004-10-28 15:52:25] - Paul: Its better for people to dislike the real you than like the fake you. Thats what I think anyway. This is all just IMHO. -mel
[2004-10-28 15:51:32] - Paul: Your primary goal should be to make sure you are happy with yourself. And people can take or leave that as they want. -mel
[2004-10-28 15:50:47] - Paul: I like to think of the aspects I change of myself as self-improvmenet. You shouldn't change anything that goes against your core beliefs. But I've been realizing lately that I need to grow up a bit. And that doesn't mean I'm not still being myself. -mel
[2004-10-28 15:49:08] - Paul: about your jounal entry... I've been thinking about that myself (for my own personal reasons). People often say to be yourself. But that doesn't mean we all aren't in a state of continual self-improvement. -mel
[2004-10-28 15:25:41] - Pierce: I understand it's not a huge issue for you either way and that you would still prefer a civil disobedience Kerry over a civil disobedience free Bush or Badnarik, I'm just wondering if you think any less of Kerry because of his civil disobedience like you do for Badnarik. -Paul
[2004-10-28 15:22:52] - Dave: Sweet. I'm gonna have $10. That'll help offset the pain of the result of the election at least a little bit. -Paul
[2004-10-28 15:22:20] - Pierce: I believe it was anti-war related awhile ago. But Badnarik has also ceased his civil disobedience since winning the nomination (I think) so does that mean he is as ok as Kerry to you in regards to civil disobedience? -Paul
[2004-10-28 15:21:41] - dave: exactly. but it's $5, so who cares?
~a[2004-10-28 15:19:29] - Paul: tho honestly, I wouldn't be surprised if it fell more in the range of 53-54% -dave
[2004-10-28 15:18:11] - paul: sure, I'll bet ya $5 ^_^ -dave
[2004-10-28 15:16:57] - Though it's not optimal; all else being equal, a president who had never been civilly disobedient would be preferrable to one who did. But all else must be equal, meaning the "cause" the candidate was supporting with the disobedience must be neutral for the sake of argument. - pierce
[2004-10-28 15:15:35] - I made a specific point that it's theoretically okay for someone to be civilly disobedient, and then later decide to try to be president after ceasing those intentions and activities. - pierce
[2004-10-28 15:14:46] - Paul: when was Kerry's civil disobedience, and what were the circumstances? I assume it's not something he's done recently, and if I'm correct then it's not in conflict with his recent bid for the presidency. - pierce
[2004-10-28 14:18:58] - a: haha!! neat. -mel
[2004-10-28 14:17:02] - mel: not very often. monthly? old mb veterans might remember the /fun/ page. the /fun/ page "broke" google's system and google would hit the page about 10,000 times a day. ~a
[2004-10-28 14:15:20] - like for an instance of when it doesn't know how to use a page: right now it's using very very old URLs to browse the old entries. now the url format is like http://aporter.org/msg/?action=prev&prev=55000 and back in the day, it was more like http://aporter.org/msg/?a=2&d=114 (which "doesnt work" so the php script just displays the front page) ~a
[2004-10-28 14:15:12] - a: how often does it traverse your page? -mel
[2004-10-28 14:14:53] - a: haha. thats cool. -mel
[2004-10-28 14:12:05] - mel: sometimes google thinks it knows how to use the page and sometimes it's wrong. it usually can follow links with cgi variables ok and i've seen it try to search for random words back when the message board had a search utility. i've never seen google try to make a post though
~a[2004-10-28 14:07:11] - a: hey, so how does that work when google hits your page? -mel
[2004-10-28 13:29:22] - a: Ok, I thought something was a bit fishy. No offense, but the counter seemed to be going up a lot faster than it should've.
-Paul[2004-10-28 13:27:16] - oh, paul. it is/was goolge that's spamming the hit counter (we were at 131 hits now). ~a
[2004-10-28 13:03:31] - a: Ok, I don't want to hear any whining from you afterwards then.
-Paul[2004-10-28 13:03:15] - a: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voter_turnout A source you might trust more. -Paul
[2004-10-28 13:01:50] - paul: nah. it's only $5, the bet stands. ~a
[2004-10-28 13:00:52] - a: I got it from here: http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0781453.html Why don't we suspend the bet temporarily until we both can look up some more info so we both feel comfortable with our data? -Paul
[2004-10-28 12:56:04] - your terms are acceptable. consider your bet placed. (i really hope your 51.3 value was accurrate because 51% seems REALLY high) ~a
[2004-10-28 12:54:37] - a: Ok, then I'll bet $5 that the percentage of the voting age population (not registered voters, likely voters, or anything like that) will be less than 55% (I'll give it to you if it's exactly 55%). -Paul
[2004-10-28 12:50:25] - sure! ~a
[2004-10-28 12:42:43] - a: The better question is, who am I betting with? Am I betting with you? -Paul
[2004-10-28 12:31:25] - paul: how much are you betting? ~a
[2004-10-28 12:31:08] - paul: my money is above 55% ~a
[2004-10-28 12:08:25] - Dave: Alrighty, I'll put money on below 55% -Paul
[2004-10-28 12:03:20] - paul: yeah, that's around what I was thinking. -dave
[2004-10-28 11:27:04] - http://slate.msn.com/id/2108561 I don't know how serious and unbiased this article is, but I found it amusing nonetheless. -Paul
[2004-10-28 11:05:52] - Looks like a lot of people are interested in Dave's answer, since I know I haven't been refreshing this page 50+ times. -Paul
[2004-10-28 10:09:32] - Dave: According to the stats I've found, the turnout in 2000 was 51.3% of the voting age population. So you think around 55%? -Paul
[2004-10-28 10:04:31] - paul: Like if it was 50% in 2000, it'll be at least several % points higher. -dave
[2004-10-28 09:45:43] - Dave: What do you mean by a significant number? -Paul
[2004-10-28 09:41:38] - Paul: Hmmm, I bet there'll be a significant number more -dave
[2004-10-28 09:34:12] - Dave: I'm going to say about the same as the 2000 election. -Paul
[2004-10-28 09:33:34] - Pierce: If you are still here, I'm just wondering if you have any problem with the fact that Kerry has been arrested for civil disobedience. -Paul
[2004-10-28 09:22:46] - http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A4527-2004Oct28.html red wine decreases chance of lung cancer...white wine increases it 0_o -dave
[2004-10-28 09:18:33] - anyone wanna bet on how high the voter turnout is going to be this election? ^_^ -dave
[2004-10-28 09:18:16] - http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A3648-2004Oct27.html Offices have been swamped with absentee ballot requests -dave
[2004-10-27 23:08:13] - mig: how so? - pierce
[2004-10-27 19:59:40] - geez, this whole justice thing has been way overblown. - mig
[2004-10-27 17:46:50] - http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A2670-2004Oct27.html Likely voters narrowly choose Bush over Kerry on picking Justices (49% vs 42%) -dave
[2004-10-27 17:37:30] - Travis: Do you think Sprite was trying to run interference for Ariel?
-Paul[2004-10-27 17:33:15] - travis: in lieu of the bestiality comment, maybe I shouldn't see your cats... - vinnie
[2004-10-27 17:32:52] - travis: also I can give you alias and planetary - vinnie
[2004-10-27 17:32:28] - travis: I have to see your cats sometime! cats! - vinnie
[2004-10-27 17:30:01] - Travis: We know you only have cats for beastiality purposes. -Paul
[2004-10-27 17:29:14] - travis: heh heh. You're such a stud ^_^ -dave
[2004-10-27 17:27:33] - that might sound disgusting, but my family's first cat was female and she followed my dad and me around before she was fixed - travis
[2004-10-27 17:27:03] - dave: we'll also see how they act after they're spayed, they may just be after my maniless - travis
[2004-10-27 17:26:12] - Travis: I think it helps a lot when you get them when they're young. Your cats really don't know much about life outside of your apartment and with you around so being loyal comes a lot more naturally. -Paul
[2004-10-27 17:23:19] - travis: yeah, I've heard that some cats are fairly loyal. I think my only hesitation would be that you still have a 'better chance' at getting a loyal pet with a dog -dave
[2004-10-27 17:22:25] - travis: hehe, they indoor cats? I was on the phone with a friend of mine when her cat attacked a bird that was on the porch. At least dealing with tacks is better than dealing with dead birds ^_^ -dave
[2004-10-27 17:22:20] - i know it was about dogs, but so far with two cats they're both loyal to me (as loyal as a cat will be) and constantly follow me around the apartment - travis
[2004-10-27 17:20:36] - Travis: I knew it. Whenever trouble is being caused, it's always Ariel. -Paul
[2004-10-27 17:20:26] - dave: she had it in her mouth and the only reason i found out was because she dropped it on the metal base of a lamp, otherwise i was looking in a different area of the room - travis
[2004-10-27 17:20:11] - mel: mebbe so she could play with it on the weekends ^_^ -dave
[2004-10-27 17:19:25] - paul: ariel was trying to eat the tack and sprite kept getting in my way when i was searching for it before i noticed ariel - travis
[2004-10-27 17:19:25] - Paul:
-mel[2004-10-27 17:19:00] - Paul: haha. ok, fine. -mel
[2004-10-27 17:18:39] - Mel: Seriously, though, when I started writing that post I was responding to Dave's post about affirmative action for pets. -Paul
[2004-10-27 17:18:35] - dave: Thats true. One of my friend at Intel had a dog. She took it to doggy day care every day and they played with it there. So it was tired by the time she brought it home and she didn't really have to walk it. The dog was obviously well-excersised then. But it makes you wonder why she got it in the first place... -mel
[2004-10-27 17:18:31] - travis: your cat tried to eat a tack? 0_o -dave
[2004-10-27 17:17:08] - dave: hmm. interesting to consider. The nice thing about more than one pet is they can keep each other company. My brother has two dogs. But one is older than the other, so they were raised seperately. -mel
[2004-10-27 17:17:04] - Mel: Hey, at least I didn't ask if you wanted a female dog or not.
-Paul[2004-10-27 17:16:36] - mel: well, they have places you can leave your pet for awhile. like 'vacation places' for your pets. They exercise them, feed them etc. Not sure how much it costs tho -dave
[2004-10-27 17:16:22] - Travis: Let me guess, was it Ariel? -Paul
[2004-10-27 17:16:19] - Paul: haha. riiiight. The crippled boy gets a crippled dog. and I want an ugly dog....
-mel[2004-10-27 17:16:00] - Travis: The deer killed off all the wolves?
-Paul[2004-10-27 17:15:43] - mel: an interesting fact I picked up from my boss (who owns a large number of dogs): if you raise several dogs at once, they will be less loyal to you and more loyal to one another -dave
[2004-10-27 17:15:31] - Mel: No, no. Just a story that I found to be appropriate.
-Paul[2004-10-27 17:15:28] - travis: yes, I agree. definitely a reson to get a cat. It can be ok to leave them at home for the weekend. but not a dog. -mel
[2004-10-27 17:15:22] - paul: stupid deer overpopulation, that's only around because the bastards killed off so many wolves years ago
- travis[2004-10-27 17:14:42] - dave: yes. me too. Especially the issue of vacations. I used to take weekend trip a lot in college, which makes it harder to have a cat or a dog (unless you can take them too). -mel
[2004-10-27 17:14:36] - although one of my cats knocked a calendar off the wall and tried to eat the tack when it fell down, that was kinda scary, i'm glad i got out of bed to check on it instead of shrugging the noise off - travis
[2004-10-27 17:14:09] - Travis: Strange how you contribute to debates through nothing but comics.
-Paul[2004-10-27 17:13:44] - mel: that's one reason cats are cooler, they require less maintenance - travis
[2004-10-27 17:13:31] - mel: yeah, for the longest time I just figured that I would get a dog when I had my own place. But over the years I've become a little unsure since I've found out more and more about how much goes into taking care of one -dave
[2004-10-27 17:13:08] - Another problem is that people tend to have strong emotional attachments to cats and dogs that they don't have for other animals, which reduces the number of solutions. Nobody would support hunters going out and shooting stray dogs and cats even though it's a common solution for deer overpopulation. -Paul
[2004-10-27 17:12:25] - dave: I will definitewly let you know if/when I get the dog. I need to think about it seriously. It will be the biggest commitment I have ever made if I really do it. Because the dog will live a long time, I will have to consider what to do when I go on vacations, I will have to walk it every day, etc. -mel
[2004-10-27 17:12:25] - man, when i'm reading through a comic's archive (penny arcade, diesel sweeties, men in hats) i wind up remembering a comic for almost any topic in a discussion
- travis[2004-10-27 17:11:15] - Paul: Are you trying to tell me something.... ? -mel
[2004-10-27 17:11:06] - paul: i know it's mean, but your one legged boy remined me of http://www.meninhats.com/comics/20030901.gif - travis
[2004-10-27 17:10:53] - Paul: I remember that. I think its a Chicken Soup fot the Soul story. -mel
[2004-10-27 17:10:51] - mel: LOL, well let me know if you end up with a cute ugly dog. Sounds quite intrigueing ^_^ -dave
[2004-10-27 17:09:48] - I don't know why, but this conversation reminds me of that. -paul
[2004-10-27 17:09:44] - dave: yes, I know that doesn't make sense. -mel
[2004-10-27 17:09:35] - I remember some commercial where this kid walks into an animal shelter and walks past all these cute dogs, not wanting any of them and he gets to the end where there is a three legged dog which he picks and at the end of the commercial you see that the boy only has one leg. -Paul
[2004-10-27 17:09:30] - dave: yes. I think ugly dogs are cute.
-mel[2004-10-27 17:09:17] - dave: I added statistics to my search list and it didn't help. -mel
[2004-10-27 17:09:17] - mel: heh heh, root for the underdogs at the shelter eh? ^_^ -dave
[2004-10-27 17:08:58] - dave: I know.
-mel[2004-10-27 17:08:27] - mel: LOL, personal ads, that's hilarious ^_^ -dave
[2004-10-27 17:08:11] - mel: and what's the reason for explicitly getting an ugly one? -dave
[2004-10-27 17:08:07] - dave: thats my guess too. I wasn't able to find any statistics though. I tried googling using heigh, weight, average, American, and computer programmer. All I got was personal ads.
-mel[2004-10-27 17:07:11] - dave: actually, I am thinking about adopting a dog (if I don't find that cat at the construction site, I've been looking for the cat for a few days now). and I want to get an ugly dog from the shelter. -mel
[2004-10-27 17:06:25] - mel: I'd guess computer programmers would be shorter and heavier, but hey, who knows -dave
[2004-10-27 17:06:07] - dave: haha. yes. all those poor ugly pets don't get the same chance.
-mel[2004-10-27 17:05:24] - Paul: or hey! we could have stray pet affirmative action ^_^ They've been oppressed for too long! -dave
[2004-10-27 17:05:10] - Paul: The point is that people don't think things through. What if there were some sort of pet ownership tax like an alcohol tax? -mel
[2004-10-27 17:05:07] - paul: you could make it so that the 'stray' pets at the shelter had an equal opportunity to be adopted into a family. Like outlaw sellings pets except through the shelter, and then have a pet randomly chosen for a family instead of the family being able to choose ^_^ -dave
[2004-10-27 17:04:21] - Paul: ok, scratch the capitalistic. Its just an idea then. -mel
[2004-10-27 17:02:55] - Mel: Not to be overly critical, but you don't just make something more expensive in a free market. I'm not saying it's a bad idea, just not a capitalistic one, IMHO. -Paul
[2004-10-27 17:02:36] - paul: yeah, exactly -dave
[2004-10-27 17:01:55] - Dave: Yeah, I was thinking about that too. In a way, we're almost maximizing the number of animal deaths by letting them breed before killing them, thus keeping their numbers high which requires more killing in the long run. The argument could be made that it's more humane to just wipe them out now and keep their numbers low. -Paul
[2004-10-27 17:01:51] - dave: haha. maybe... hey, I wonder what the average height and weight of a computer programmer is. -mel
[2004-10-27 17:01:14] - Paul: Like maybe if we made bullets more expensive, people would think more seriosuly before shooting... -mel
[2004-10-27 17:01:00] - mel: mebbe it's because you don't notice all the short guys, you look right over them ^_^ -dave
[2004-10-27 17:00:32] - Paul: I don't know. I haven't thought it through. Just an idea. -mel
[2004-10-27 17:00:05] - Mel: And how would you do that through the free market?
-Paul[2004-10-27 16:59:44] - paul: well, I was thinking about the pet death problem in terms of simple numbers. If you kill all the stray pets now, there won't be so many to reproduce. Yes, you may happen upon the occasional one, but if you kill them when you see them, then over time you'll have drastically reduced the number of pets you've had to kill -dave
[2004-10-27 16:58:36] - travis: I thought the average guy was a little taller and a little lighter. I guess thats probably media influence... -mel
[2004-10-27 16:57:52] - travius: I just read that part. 5 foot 4 inches (for women) and 5 foot 9 inches (for men). Interesting again. Not the difference, just the numbers in general. I thought the average male was a little taller. -mel
[2004-10-27 16:57:12] - mel: the heigh averages are at the bottom of that article - travis
[2004-10-27 16:55:54] - travis: I don't find the difference interesting. Both numbers are just heavier than I thought. I didn't know the average difference in height was 5 inches though. -mel
[2004-10-27 16:55:10] - Paul: Here's a capitalistic idea. Maybe if the prices of all pets were somehow raised, then people would think more seriously before buying a pet and be more likely to adopt a pet. -mel
[2004-10-27 16:55:08] - mel: why is the weight difference between men and women interesting? women are also 5 inches shorter so i should hope they weigh less - travis
[2004-10-27 16:52:06] - dave: Thats more than I thought. -mel
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