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[2006-01-19 14:55:17] - the software (not the drivers which may not be required) is http://sourceforge.net/projects/bitpim ~a
[2006-01-19 14:51:37] - pierce: it came with the cable. (i bought the cable from some company called http://www.gomadic.com/ ) ~a
[2006-01-19 14:48:00] - a: was that the software linked from LG's website, or did you use another resource to find it? - pierce
[2006-01-19 14:46:28] - i can upload/download pictures/soundrecordings/ringtones/textmessages. but the other cool thing is i can use it as a modem to connect my laptop to the internet when i'm not near a wireless or wired network. ~a
[2006-01-19 14:44:40] - pierce: i just hooked my lg phone up to my computer. it works really well (and it's free and the software is open source). the only problem is it doesn't show up like a flashdrive (like i was hoping it would). ~a
[2006-01-19 14:36:03] - Vinnie: Clearly he was quoting mig. -Paul
[2006-01-19 14:34:27] - pierce: you were mig? - vinnie
[2006-01-19 14:27:08] - oops, that was me - pierce
[2006-01-19 14:23:54] - aaron: given who i think was working with you .... that must have been pretty maddening. -mig
[2006-01-19 14:22:13] - grrr! I got a new phone, and it has one of those miniusb peripheral cable plugs so I assumed I could do cool trickery with it on the computer, but it turns out that motorola charges $30 for the drivers and software
[2006-01-19 14:07:58] - mig: if you think clearcase is bad for you, I was working on DVT with clearcase, and we had four developers working independently on the same project. We had some file locking/merging problems pop up pretty frequently - aaron
[2006-01-19 13:13:10] - a: I think about $1.5k so far. -Paul
[2006-01-19 13:10:50] - paul: how much have you made on amd today? ~a
[2006-01-19 12:57:32] - mig: Holy crap, that sounds like a terrible idea.
-Paul[2006-01-19 12:47:10] - simply sharing an office doesn't count. - mig
[2006-01-19 12:46:47] - paul: that's not pair programming. i was talking about two people physically working on one computer. - mig
[2006-01-19 12:42:38] - mig: I'm not so sure how pair programming works, but I imagine it wouldn't solve the problem. I shared an office with one guy and we still had to remember to ask the other person if they had a certain file checked out before we did anything and consider the number of files we edited every day, it got to be quite annoying. -Paul
[2006-01-19 11:32:16] - paul: of course if they were pair programming then they wouldn't have had a conflict to begin with
- mig[2006-01-19 11:16:25] - mig: So oftentimes, the two programmers will have to sit down and figure out a solution between the two of them or just discard one person's changes. -Paul
[2006-01-19 11:14:10] - Perforce has a wonderful merge tool which works pretty well when there aren't conflicts, but most of the time when there are major changes made to a file, there are some totally un-resolvable conflicts. -Paul
[2006-01-19 11:10:02] - And i can also see the sense of needing to file-lock things like binaries files (word documents, etc) since diffs can't really work with them. but making file-locking the de-facto policy on all files is just silly. - mig
[2006-01-19 11:08:58] - now, if i was accessing and modifying something directly from a shared source where other people were directly modifying it, I could see the sense in file-locking ... but if it's something that is stored on my local machine, i shouldn't need special permission to edit files. - mig
[2006-01-19 11:03:52] - of course where i'm at now as a sub for saic we're using clearcase, that uses file-locking.... *shudder*. - mig
[2006-01-19 11:03:14] - oh yes, we use subversion at pragmatics ... it is teh r0x0rs. As for conflicts, Diff is a wonderful thing my friend. Also subversion has a nice way of resolving conflicts a diff merge can't handle. - mig
[2006-01-19 11:01:01] - mig: We use perforce. -paul
[2006-01-19 11:00:50] - mig: Well, have you used source control that doesn't have file locking? I can't imagine many things are worse than trying to figure out how to merge two different versions of a file where significant changes have been made independent of eachother. -Paul
[2006-01-19 11:00:23] - paul: what are you using at intwine, anyways? - mig
[2006-01-19 10:59:47] - paul: believe me once you will hate it if you ever use soure control that is based on file-locking. you will certainly enjoy going through a overly-complex and annoying process just to change a typo in a file. - mig
[2006-01-19 10:57:03] - mig: Mmmmm, we've always wished we could find some good method of source control which had file locking. I guess one man's garbage... -Paul
[2006-01-19 10:54:19] - i curse the idiot who decided file-locking was a great standard feature to include in version control software...... - mig
[2006-01-19 10:37:57] - i never understood dividends anyway. why screw with your own stock price so much. ~a
[2006-01-19 10:36:36] - s/end of 2004/beginning of 2005/ ~a
[2006-01-19 10:35:43] - xpovos: no i didn't. they gave dividends at the end of 2004 (i still owned them back then). $3/share on 320 shares months before i sold was pretty nice. ~a
[2006-01-19 10:32:18] - a: I've also done worse things. I think I sold siri when it was at $3 and it almost got all the way up to $8. It's at about $6 now. -Paul
[2006-01-19 10:28:30] - a: msft may not have gone anywhere, but you missed out on dividends. -- Xpovos
[2006-01-19 10:23:40] - paul: that's not so bad. i've done far worse. sold redhat at 12 (29 now). sold fcx at 37 (60 now). sold msft at 27 (oh nevermind! one year later microsoft is still at 27). ~a
[2006-01-19 10:20:16] - I bought some shares at around $22 and sold it at $25
-Paul[2006-01-19 10:19:03] - Wow, I wish I had held onto my nVidia stock, though.
-Paul[2006-01-19 10:18:27] - a: Figures, I'll try it at home. $3.50 is better than $1.50, which is in turn better than $0.50, which is in turn better than -$0.50. -- Xpovos
[2006-01-19 10:14:49] - paul:
~a[2006-01-19 10:09:19] - ATI is also up a healthy 4%, but that's tempered by the fact that it's been going down by a lot lately. -Paul
[2006-01-19 10:04:51] - xpovos: with one share, you made $3.50.
~a[2006-01-19 10:04:02] - xpovos: xp (works on both sp1 and sp2). ~a
[2006-01-19 10:03:22] - Of course, that's completely balance because my roughly similar value fractional shares of Exxon are dropping by about the same amount. -- Xpovos
[2006-01-19 10:01:49] - paul: sweet, my fractional AMD shares are going to love that. I own... roughly one share... heh. -- Xpovos
[2006-01-19 09:58:20] - a: At work, win-l does not lock my machine. I use the lock feature here a great deal, so I wonder if it is a version issue. I am on 2000-Pro. What version are you using that locks using win-l? -- Xpovos
[2006-01-19 09:57:53] - http://news.moneycentral.msn.com/ticker/article.asp?Feed=AP&Date=20060119&ID=5428472&Symbol=US:AMD Analysts were expecting the company to earn 26 cents per share on sales of $1.67 billion. AMD earned $205 million, or 45 cents per share. -Paul
[2006-01-19 09:56:02] - a: I was a bit confused by that. I actually think they beat their expected earnings but I'm not sure. -Paul
[2006-01-19 09:53:13] - man! all the stuff i was going to buy today went up (TONS) this morning. what a crappy day. ~a
[2006-01-19 09:52:44] - paul: s/10%/14%/ ~a
[2006-01-19 09:52:22] - paul: amd reported they fell below their reported earnings. wtf would they go up? ~a
[2006-01-19 09:51:57] - paul: damn, you're kidding me. i was going to buy today
~a[2006-01-19 09:49:51] - Holy crap, AMD is up 10% right now... -Paul
[2006-01-19 09:15:55] - we actually let Oracle "install" for like three hours once, because of a modal dialog box. the whole time it said it as installing, it just didn't tell us that we were the next step in the installation process - vinnie
[2006-01-19 09:11:22] - oh wow, yeah I think I'll start using win + l from now on. that is nice - vinnie
[2006-01-18 19:30:25] - a: windows + l is soooooooo cool now! - aaron
[2006-01-18 17:12:06] - a: So in other words, I was totally wrong.
-Paul[2006-01-18 16:58:59] - yahoo "won". - pierce
[2006-01-18 16:53:14] - question: which will finish off lower tonight? answer: it was a neck and neck race up until the end. yahoo won -12.3% today. intel -11.5% today. ~a
[2006-01-18 16:52:28] - Pierce: Yup, that's almost exactly what I end up doing. Show desktop, click on a window, minimize the window, hopefully see pop-up. -Paul
[2006-01-18 16:50:37] - so for example, I'll quickly type "windows key, r, c, a, l, c" to run the calculator... but if something else on the start menu starts with "R", it hilights it and leaves the menu open, so the subsequent "C" ends up opening the control panel. - pierce
[2006-01-18 16:49:29] - hey, I actually didn't know about win+r... I always hit "win, r" (releasing the windows key before the "r") and start typing the command, but that sometimes backfires because something in the start menu recent applications also begins with R. then, it ends up running whatever is in the start menu that starts with the same letter as what I intended to run. - pierce
[2006-01-18 16:47:39] - a: I use the "show desktop" button on my quicklaunch bar. both "minimize all" and "show desktop" do minimize modal dialogs, typically, but as soon as you unminimize any window the modal dialog will pop back up, but behind the window you just restored. Then if you reminimize that window, you'll see the modal dialog. Irritating, but it works. - pierce
[2006-01-18 16:41:58] - windowskey + l (my favorite; locks session) ~a
[2006-01-18 16:40:43] - amy: yep. windowskey + r (for running things) ~a
[2006-01-18 16:39:04] - amy: It used to be useful for crashing games on previous versions of windows. -Paul
[2006-01-18 16:38:08] - a: wow, the windows button is actually useful for something? .) -amy
[2006-01-18 16:37:16] - paul: i dono. ~a
[2006-01-18 16:29:56] - a: Wouldn't that minimize the pop-up too? -Paul
[2006-01-18 16:25:41] - pierce: windowskey + m (minimizes every window) ~a
[2006-01-18 16:19:04] - Pierce: Yeah, it's very annoying even if you know that the pop-up is the reason why it's not loading because it can be hard to track down what happened to the pop-up. -Paul
[2006-01-18 16:18:15] - Pierce: I have no idea. I'm just amazed that we've managed to accomplish something like that. Does anybody else find that to be very impressive? It sounds like something out of seaQuest
-Paul[2006-01-18 16:17:44] - Paul: that's the one. I got it while loading iTunes after an update... the license agreement window appears before iTunes even makes a taskbar button for itself, and it doesn't have its own taskbar button. - pierce
[2006-01-18 16:17:23] - Pierce: Of course, the application didn't work until you had answered the pop-up so I would always be confused as to why it wasn't working. -Paul
[2006-01-18 16:16:45] - Pierce: I used to have a very annoying problem with Acrobat Reader which I think is similar to what you are talking about. When the program opened, it would also open up some pop-up asking if you wanted to update but if you switched away from the program before it finished loading, you never saw the pop-up unless you minimized all your windows. -Paul
[2006-01-18 16:14:02] - Paul: yeah, and I'm pretty sure we have one or more under the Atlantic. isn't that how they did international phone service before satellites (and maybe they still do it with that)? - pierce
[2006-01-18 16:09:35] - you know what I hate? modal dialog boxes that don't create a button on the taskbar and don't come to the forefront when you go to their parent application. All of a sudden, a program doesn't work and you don't know why unless you look closely at everything in the alt-tab list or minimize every window. - pierce
[2006-01-18 16:06:05] - http://news.moneycentral.msn.com/ticker/article.asp?Feed=PR&Date=20060118&ID=5426936&Symbol=US:LU "The PC-1 system is a high-capacity optical cable that stretches under the Pacific Ocean and is approximately 20,900 route-kilometers -- or more than 13,000 route miles -- in length." Let me get this straight: we have a giant cable that runs under the Pacific Ocean? -Paul
[2006-01-18 15:59:32] - http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=8708452816843725345&q=bunny Anybody who is squeamish about eyes probably shouldn't watch this video of some sort of laser eye surgery. -Paul
[2006-01-18 15:51:21] - a: I understand the distinction. And my last raise was a raise in all senses of the word, which maintains it's wow factor for % terms. Even though in actual terms it resulted in a pretty miserable improvement. -- Xpovos
[2006-01-18 15:46:29] - http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=simmons/060118 More Sports Guy goodness, for those who enjoy him. -Paul
[2006-01-18 15:35:09] - a: i guess it's just a day of miscommunications on the mboard, at least where i'm involved -amy
[2006-01-18 15:34:20] - "Recall that each of us got an undefined (approaching infinite) % raise when we went from unemployed to our first job" by that definition, everybody who has ever had a job has had at least one raise. ~a
[2006-01-18 15:33:20] - amy: differently from each other. ~a
[2006-01-18 15:31:22] - a: oh wait. did you mean differently from each other, i.e. xpovos and i were defining them differently from each other? -amy
[2006-01-18 15:28:30] - a: the research job was the same job with different pay... if i defined a raise as change in pay with change of job and said i'd never gotten one (besides that one)... okay, i don't know how to finish that hypothetical situation but it would be sad. -amy
[2006-01-18 15:21:41] - Xpovos: Very true. -Paul
[2006-01-18 15:20:30] - xpovos/amy: you're defining raises differently then. a "raise" usually means that you're not changing jobs. ~a
[2006-01-18 15:20:06] - http://insider.espn.go.com/espn/page2/blog/entry?id=2295277&searchName=simmons&action=login&appRedirect=http%3a%2f%2finsider.espn.go.com%2fespn%2fpage2%2fblog%2 haha, Isaiah Thomas threatens Bill Simmons -dave
[2006-01-18 14:55:56] - paul/amy: I agree, but it's not nearly as impressive as it sounds. Honestly. Recall that each of us got an undefined (approaching infinite) % raise when we went from unemployed to our first job. 125% of $1.00/hr is only $1.25/hr. Etc. -- Xpovos
[2006-01-18 14:44:30] - oh wait, not true. i went up from $9.50 to I think $10/hr when I became a senior rather than a junior in college for my research work .D -amy
[2006-01-18 14:43:52] - *** amy has never gotten a raise!
[2006-01-18 14:35:47] - Xpovos: Wow, that's mighty impressive. I'm pretty sure my last raise was around 3%. -Paul
[2006-01-18 14:32:33] - Paul: my last raise was 25%. If I can keep that up, I'll be made. Eventually. -- Xpovos
[2006-01-18 14:25:55] - Dave: Well, yes. I definitely agree that it's stupid that employers don't give me bigger raises.
-Paul[2006-01-18 14:22:46] - dave: Yes, I do. *prays* -- Xpovos
[2006-01-18 14:22:37] - a: Yes. -- Xpovos
[2006-01-18 14:21:44] - paul: yeah, companies definitely stand to gain from it to a certain extent - i more meant stupid from our "employee" perspective -dave
[2006-01-18 14:21:08] - a: he stands to gain a lot more from predicting depressions tho ^_^ unless the earthquake is where he lives -dave
[2006-01-18 14:17:46] - isn't that like predicting earthquakes only slightly more difficult? ~a
[2006-01-18 14:17:21] - xpovos: you're predicting depressions now? ~a
[2006-01-18 14:12:30] - -- spike out at over 10, maybe 15% before deflation settles the economy and the depression ends. -- Xpovos
[2006-01-18 14:12:06] - Dave: yeah, I was stunned too. I used to calcuate it at 3%, but seeing as we're spiking right now, and as mentioned before the time value of money means the inflation rate right now matters a lot more than the inflation rate 5 years from now, I've decided to up my estimates permanently. I imagine we'll be seeing 6% yearly inflation within a few years, and possibly --
[2006-01-18 14:10:27] - and again, no. ~a
[2006-01-18 14:10:10] - well. right. that's just a mutual fund. just like vanguard. ~a
[2006-01-18 14:08:32] - a: Well, I'm talking about investing my Roth IRA money in mutual fund type things much like how my 401(k) is invested (as opposed to picking and choosing stocks). Also, it's not technically BoA but another financial company that they have some sort of deal with. -Paul
[2006-01-18 14:07:50] - paul: no, it's for everything. and it's very very variable, but it's ~.25%. ~a
[2006-01-18 14:07:14] - dave: I'm not so sure it's stupid. There are probably a bunch of employees out there who either don't deserve a bigger raise than that (they are easily replaced) or who might deserve a bigger one, but won't complain about it and likely won't leave over it. -Paul
[2006-01-18 14:07:12] - paul: 401k != mutual funds. but you're talking about boa mutual funds, right? no, i don't know anything about boa mutual funds. ~a
[2006-01-18 14:06:20] - a: Scottrade gives a return on unused balance? Is that just for IRAs? -Paul
[2006-01-18 14:05:44] - pierce: yeah, all I'm saying is that it is stupid, but a lot of companies do give out less than inflation raises normally (not counting promotions) -daev
[2006-01-18 14:05:27] - a: Well, I'm not talking about CDs (although I unfortunately got talked into one that I now have to figure out how to get my money out of). I'm also not talking about personally managing my IRA. I'm thinking of something more like my 401(k) where I just pick out funds I want to invest in and they do it for me. -Paul
[2006-01-18 14:04:18] - amy: CDs and bonds are good, but mutual funds (for young people) in addition to cds and bonds are much better. you can afford to take some high risk (diversified with low risk) for high profit when you're young moreso than when you're old. ~a
[2006-01-18 14:02:38] - paul: i know that boa cds suck. i also know that boa stock trades are $7 and that they probably either (a) don't give a return on your unused balance or (b) don't give a return any bigger than their crappy (.25%/year) losings accounts. so basically: no, i know some about it. ~a
[2006-01-18 14:02:06] - dave: I'm not discounting "intangibles", trust me. But averaged out, they probably cancel because some people apply to companies with fewer intangibles than the one they're already at, and some people apply to companies with more. - pierce
[2006-01-18 14:00:25] - a: oh, i already have a plan for it... actually i've got it written on my "goals" list for february... anyway i do invest in the 401k and will probably put my "losings" in a CD (agree with you about that too) because i don't know what my short-term career plans are yet, and when i will need the money. -amy
[2006-01-18 14:00:11] - a: I know you said you do your IRA through Scottrade, does that mean you don't know anything about the financial services that Banc of America (not the bank, but the associated financial company) offers? -Paul
[2006-01-18 13:58:20] - pierce: like my company vests you in a pension plan when you hit 5 years -dave
[2006-01-18 13:57:48] - pierce: there other intangivles besides salary that sometimes places will count on to keep people at their jobs -dave
[2006-01-18 13:56:41] - pierce: actually, it is that way in general with companies - them not giving you large enough salary increases to keep up with the what you would get paid if you want somewhere else. I've heard several people artificially go out and get job offers and then present them to their bosses to get "appropriate" raises -dave
[2006-01-18 13:55:21] - amy: like all huge tasks (learning a programming language, writing a compiler) break it down to a very very easy task (again, like the 401k) and complete it. ~a
[2006-01-18 13:54:32] - amy: start small. (most importantly) use your companies 401k especially if they have matching. ~a
[2006-01-18 13:54:31] - Paul: Yeah I basically do the same thing... -amy
[2006-01-18 13:54:09] - Amy: Well, I know that I certainly don't understand a lot about economics at all. I just don't mind talking about something that I know so little about.
-Paul[2006-01-18 13:53:29] - Pierce: For instance, I think it would be safe for most restaurants to give their waiters below inflation raises because I don't think it's terribly likely that another restaurant is going to swoop in with a significantly higher offer. -Paul
[2006-01-18 13:52:33] - a: it's okay, i have always been meaning to read up more on economics anyway, but i haven't started because it seems quite a daunting task with many details that i currently do not understand. -amy
[2006-01-18 13:52:10] - Pierce: I don't disagree with that, what I wonder about is your assumption that an employee can get a new (better offer) at any given time. -Paul
[2006-01-18 13:52:06] - there is no present. there are only past and future... -sam
[2006-01-18 13:51:59] - amy: So basically I just save whatever money I have left over after expenses and hope it'll be enough. I've done some simple calculations and it certainly seems like I should have more than enough, but there is no way to know for sure, so I don't let it bother me. -Paul
[2006-01-18 13:50:32] - amy: I find the best policy for me isn't to worry about trying to forecast how much money I'm going to need in the future since there are far too many variables and even if I know the answer, having that information isn't likely to change what I do or anything. -Paul
[2006-01-18 13:49:59] - amy: sorry
~a[2006-01-18 13:49:24] - paul: okay, is that not a safe assumption? my experience, which granted may be unrepresentative, is that anyone who offers you a job is going to tend to offer you more than you already make for fear that you'll pass if you don't see a financial benefit. - pierce
[2006-01-18 13:48:51] - a: my original statement had absolutely nothing to do with discounting the importance of investing or planning for the future, or whether or not i think it's more important to focus on the present... -amy
[2006-01-18 13:47:46] - a: actually, as i said below, i wasn't saying that "balancing the present" is a greater issue. i agree with you that focusing on the future is important, regardless of how ignorant i may be at economics. -amy
[2006-01-18 13:46:41] - a: thanks. -a,my
[2006-01-18 13:46:19] - Pierce: That's assuming that they can get better salaries elsewhere, which I see no reason to think is a safe assumption. -Paul
[2006-01-18 13:45:59] - and then you end up having to hire someone new, giving them the above-inflation boost that you were unwilling to give your own employee. and it'll be weeks or months before the new hire is fully integrated and familiarized. - pierce
[2006-01-18 13:44:50] - a: Nice save.
-Paul[2006-01-18 13:44:46] - dave: that's artificial though because it's ignoring salary increases from job transitions, which I suspect are usually significantly above inflation. really, I can't think of anything stupider than a below-inflation raise, since you're encouraging the people you've already invested time and money in training to go somewhere else. - pierce
[2006-01-18 13:44:15] - Pierce: I don't feel entirely confident commenting on that because I don't think I know enough to make an informed opinion (but that won't stop me, of course). I think you're right that the best thing in a capitalist society is for people to not save a lot and to mostly spend their income. -Paul
[2006-01-18 13:43:58] - paul: heh. i guess that came out wrong. i was interpreting (in my head) that "pierce is ignorant about economics" meant "pierce is paying more attention to the present" or "pierce is trying to balance the present" (like amy) ~a
[2006-01-18 13:43:00] - actually I think the "average" salary increase is at or below inflation -dave
[2006-01-18 13:42:44] - a: Ouch, are you saying Amy is ignorant about economics? -Paul
[2006-01-18 13:42:17] - couldn't inflation be considered a good thing in a capitalist society? technically, savings aren't really good because they keep wealth from moving to those who are adding value to the economy. so inflation, which motivates people to reinvest rather than save, can have a beneficial effect. - pierce
[2006-01-18 13:42:15] - a: True, but I think those people have other problems. -Paul
[2006-01-18 13:42:09] - pierce: then i guess you agree with amy (and you have almost the same color, so it makes sense). ~a
[2006-01-18 13:41:55] - a: I'm not so sure it has been. I'm not complaining, though, because I haven't stayed at a job longer than two years yet and in both jobs I've had situations which have arisen which would've (or did) boost my income a fair bit. -Paul
[2006-01-18 13:41:15] - paul: althogh it's pretty sweet for the people in debt up to their ears. ~a
[2006-01-18 13:40:58] - *** pierce is ignorant about economics...
[2006-01-18 13:40:40] - a: I assume you mean which will go down a greater percentage? My money is on Intel, so that means bet the bank on Yahoo.
-Paul[2006-01-18 13:39:29] - Inflation is definitely annoying because it has a pretty big negative affect on everybody's wealth and yet it's so easy to forget and not account for. -Paul
[2006-01-18 13:39:06] - paul: hopefully it's been more than inflation. ~a
[2006-01-18 13:38:09] - a: My salary hasn't gone up that much in a year outside of me switching jobs.
-Paul[2006-01-18 13:36:42] - a: Ok, well, I guess I agree that focusing on the future is a bigger problem if you consider how much people currently focus on it. -Paul
[2006-01-18 13:20:41] - which will finish off lower tonight (market closes at 4:00)? yahoo (-11.5% today) or intel (-11.6% today). ~a
[2006-01-18 13:18:12] - dave: i've always thought that savings accounts should be called "losings accounts" by the banks because they make (SO MUCH) less than inflation. ~a
[2006-01-18 13:15:19] - xpovos: i guess i take back that question, after looking things up, 4% isn't too bizarre -dave
[2006-01-18 13:10:17] - xpovos: 4% sounds like horrible inflation tho - isn't it more like 2.5-3? -dave
[2006-01-18 13:07:23] - dave: yeah. Not counting for inflation makes some of those numbers much easier to hit. I mean just getting $50K a year into perpetuity isn't too hard, and is increasingly easy. However, at 4% inflation, 40 years from now 50K is ~250K! So those 40-years make a huge impact. -- Xpovos
[2006-01-18 13:05:04] - xpovos: well, i might be doing the math wrong, and no factoring in inflation, you need like 1.3mil to get out 60k a year for like 45years, if the remainder makes 4% (stable bonds) -dave
[2006-01-18 12:59:44] - 1000/month seems like a lot now, but in 20 years it'll be nothing (and like xpovos mentioned, because of inflation it actually will be nothing). ~a
[2006-01-18 12:59:40] - a: My salary had better go up.
However, your compount interest factor means money today is worth much more than money next year. It pretty much negates, and in a lot of cases more than negates your gain due to increased savings. -- Xpovos[2006-01-18 12:57:29] - xpovos/dave: you keep quoting $x/year like it's something that needs to stay constant. as you get older, you salaries will get much larger. you have to assume a 5% (or 6%) increase in salaries per year too (and your "operating" expenses will probably only go up by a few % per year so the % of your income devoted to savings will also go up) ~a
[2006-01-18 12:52:23] - Dave: 2/5mil is a common nut number I hear. -- Xpovos
[2006-01-18 12:51:23] - dave: who is we? I'd like to see some of the figures, because I'm skeptical of a number that low. Or maybe it's just your assumptions on rates of inflation. -- Xpovos
[2006-01-18 12:51:07] - dave: yeah i can think of people who have situations like that who have literally told me that they don't have anything that they enjoy in life or don't know what it is they enjoy. but i suppose after age 40 or whenever, you have plenty of time to figure that out without having to worry about a job *shrug* -amy
[2006-01-18 12:50:58] - i take that back, i think the total you needed was like 2.6mil, and you need like 700/month, or 8.5k a year to get that over 40 years -dave
[2006-01-18 12:46:33] - xpovos: well, i think we calculated out how much you would need to invest each year for you to get like 60k until you were 100 or soemthing like that. The number came out surprisingly low, like 2-4k I think -dave
[2006-01-18 12:45:36] - amy: I actually dont' know anyone personally who is working like that just so they can retire early. I can definitely see people doing it for the money, or as an extension to that, the status -dave
[2006-01-18 12:45:01] - a: I'm counting on everyone else being a moron and getting in to debt. Depression is a gold-digger's best friend--assuming I can keep my job. -- Xpovos
[2006-01-18 12:42:14] - I was also pointing out the relative impossibility of anyone practically accumulating that much wealth on his own in a single life-time. I would need a much better paying job, and if I had that job, I'd probably be spending the money in other ways anyway. -- Xpovos
[2006-01-18 12:41:19] - xpovos: well yeah, i think figuring out how best to enjoy life can be a problem in itself. -amy
[2006-01-18 12:40:37] - Paul: While I won't live forever, I can't say precisely how long I will live past 65, it could be a negative number, it could be 40+ years. Regardless there's bound to be an increse in expenses at the end of those. So the perpetuity concept seems best. $50,000 is a good number for me to shoot for. -- Xpovos
[2006-01-18 12:39:53] - anyway... i'm just thinking, what is the point in working 2 full-time jobs or putting yourself through an education in a subject you absolutely hate if the goal is doing this so you can retire before 40... and you don't even know what you're going to do when you get there? -amy
[2006-01-18 12:39:31] - amy: I don't enjoy life, but my financial strife has relatively little to do with it. -- Xpovos
[2006-01-18 12:37:46] - a: i think both are problems. in my opinion i don't think one is necessarily worse than the other; they're not comparable to me. anyway there is surely a middle ground between thinking too much about the future or present, even it's difficult to achieve. it is probably best to aim for that middle though, rather than to either extreme. -amy
[2006-01-18 12:34:51] - dave: people trying to retire early. -amy
[2006-01-18 12:34:36] - paul: hmph. my whole point was that you need to focus on both! i only said focusing on the future is a bigger problem because look at the world! everybody is in debt up to their ears and nobody is planning for their retirement (unless forced to by the evil governments). ~a
[2006-01-18 12:32:04] - Dave: Oh, I'll agree with that. Most people probably don't focus enough on the future. -Paul
[2006-01-18 12:31:25] - Dave: That's what I was thinking at the time, but I didn't know there was an eternal life upgrade either. -Paul
[2006-01-18 12:30:58] - Paul: while I agree with your sentiment about the present, I think the issue is probably more that people tend to naturally live in the present, so it's more of an effort to plan for the future, hence attempting to place more emphasis on it -dave
[2006-01-18 12:29:46] - a: Whereas if you only look to the present, you'll at least appreciate it for a little bit before likely dying a terrible death in the future that you hadn't planned for.
-Paul[2006-01-18 12:29:41] - Paul: that must be a new product, I think I would have rather had that one. What fun is eternal life without sex? -dave
[2006-01-18 12:29:14] - a: I'm not so sure I agree. The present is happening now and is certain to happen while the future is something later that is much more uncertain and nebulous. If you're always looking to the future, you never appreciate the present. -Paul
[2006-01-18 12:26:09] - amy: balancing the two (present & future) is pretty hard. i think ignoring the future, however, is a much bigger problem then the one you're referring to (ignoring the present). ~a
[2006-01-18 12:24:42] - Dave: No, I wasted all my money on the sex appeal upgrade.
-Paul[2006-01-18 12:23:18] - amy: are you talking about people who are trying to retire early? or people who are trying to make sure they are on track to retire at retirement age? -dave
[2006-01-18 12:22:20] - Paul: what, you haven't bought the eternal life upgrade? -dave
[2006-01-18 12:16:48] - Xpovos: Wait, are you saying that you're planning on living forever? -Paul
[2006-01-18 12:05:52] - *(interest, dividends, whatever it is you get from your investments) -amy
[2006-01-18 12:04:27] - xpovos: i know way too many people who are ttrying to become millionaires or earn $x million so that they can retire and live off the yearly interest. coincidentally, all of these people also have severe problems enjoying life and do not even know what they get enjoyment out of. -amy
[2006-01-18 12:01:07] - sam: overpriced in comparison to what? -amy
[2006-01-18 11:57:44] - Thankfully that's a mere one and a quarter million of today's dollars.
-- Xpovos[2006-01-18 11:56:28] - Investors, FYI: I have calculated that to net a $50,000 a year payout of 2005 dollars into perpetuity starting in 2045 you will need a nut of $6.2M of 2045 dollars. This was based on an assumption of the remainder of your nut staying in investments and accruing 8% gains per year with an annual average inflation of 4%. -- Xpovos
[2006-01-18 11:46:09] - D'oh!
-paul[2006-01-18 11:45:56] - /me runs off in the direction Dave is pointing
[2006-01-18 11:44:35] - *** dave points
[2006-01-18 11:37:27] - dave: because food is over priced! -sam
[2006-01-18 11:30:43] - Dave: There's a $5 bill somewhere? For the love of Pete, tell me where, man! -Paul
[2006-01-18 11:24:00] - it's amusing to see how fast people scramble after free lunches. It makes you wonder if people would even be as zealous if informed that a $5 bill was found and the first person to claim it got it -dave
[2006-01-18 11:18:48] - a: yeah, the stars left. the article mentioned that they were trying to get those two back for the last few episodes -dave
[2006-01-18 11:17:03] - a: I thought Ashton Kutcher and Topher Grace left after last season. -Paul
[2006-01-18 11:04:53] - paul: the stars left? none of the stars were gone in any episodes i've seen (granted i don't watch it often and i am probably only watching reruns) ~a
[2006-01-18 10:57:50] - Dave: I'm not surprised at all by That 70s Show ending since it seemed like most of the stars left and I wasn't sure if it was ever that popular but I'm really surprised that Malcom is getting cancelled. I thought it was a big hit for Fox. -Paul
[2006-01-18 10:53:58] - Paul: I have no clue actually. My guess would be the operating expenses are the same and you just get to pick the area, but i dunno -dave
[2006-01-18 10:52:37] - paul: i would think it just counts the city -dave
[2006-01-18 10:51:47] - http://www.cnn.com/2006/SHOWBIZ/TV/01/18/television.fox.comedies.reut/index.html malcolm and 70s Show ending -dave
[2006-01-18 10:42:29] - Xpovos: No idea, but I was wondering that as well. Does Washington D.C. just count the city? Does it include places like Arlington and Alexandria? How about Reston and Springfield? -Paul
[2006-01-18 10:37:20] - Paul: I wonder how far out that considers a city? Strictly city lines? City lines and imediate surrounding suburbs? Obviously suburbs are going to be much more married than cities. -- Xpovos
[2006-01-18 10:31:42] - Xpovos: Because clearly single people would prefer living in New York than living in Washington D.C., no matter how much of a difference there is in other single people. -Paul
[2006-01-18 10:29:42] - Paul: So why is that statistic labeled "NYC is the best place for singles" when they're 20% lower? -- Xpovos
[2006-01-18 09:43:14] - http://movies.msn.com/movies/article.aspx?news=212548>1=7651 William Shatner Sells Kidney Stone -Paul
[2006-01-18 09:36:54] - http://msn.match.com/msn/article.aspx?articleid=5288&TrackingID=516311&BannerID=544657&menuid=6&Gt1=7569 "Washington, D.C., where a whopping 70 percent of the population is single". -Paul
[2006-01-18 09:29:41] - a: I think my 401(k) is the same way. I'm pretty sure the general public isn't allowed to invest in the "mutual funds" that I invest my 401(k) in but they seem to act like normal mutual funds in other aspects. -Paul
[2006-01-18 09:28:51] - Dave: Are the different categories like different mutual funds that have different operating expenses and stuff too or are they the same except for the areas they invest in? -paul
[2006-01-18 09:05:12] - paul: my 401k is invested in a few "mutual funds" (in quotes because they're not available for purchase to the general public). like i said before, my rothira is through scottrade so i treat it just like my usual scottrade account (only i don't have to worry about the one year thing because there is no capital gains on a rothira) ~a
[2006-01-18 07:44:26] - Paul: my 401k is invested through my company - they give you like 8(?) different categories and you can xfer between them daily. I put like 90% of my funds into whatever is making the most. I think last year it was "Emerging Markets" which made like 36% -dave
[2006-01-18 07:42:50] - http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/01/17/AR2006011701333.html Google buys radio station -dave
[2006-01-17 23:54:42] - I get the impression my 401(k) should be a little more diverse than that, though, and I should probably spread it out among multiple funds. Thoughts? -paul
[2006-01-17 23:54:22] - However, my 401(k) is just being invested in Morgan Stanley's S&P 500 fund because I heard that having an unmanaged fund with low operating expenses that just tracks the S&P 500 is just as good as a better performing managed fund with higher operating expenses. -Paul
[2006-01-17 23:52:40] - So now I have an investment question for people. How are you all investing your 401(k) and IRAs? I think I have my IRA invested in a mutual fund which is supposed to change over time to accomodate people who plan to retire in 2040 (or something like that). -Paul
[2006-01-17 23:27:07] - Sam: I have about $22k in stocks right now, but that's not counting my 401(k) and IRA. -Paul
[2006-01-17 23:26:27] - Sam: I put my 401(k) and IRA money into mutual funds. About half of any leftover savings I have I invest into stocks. So I guess the short answer is: personal savings. -paul
[2006-01-17 21:55:23] - "This penis-related article is flaccid. You can help Uncyclopedia by making it longer." (from uncyclopedia.org)
[2006-01-17 18:49:54] - sam: i put a bunch of money into the down payment on my apartment (70k). so right now i have 18k in stocks and 8k in mutual funds (from now on, i'm putting much more into mutual funds). ~a
[2006-01-17 18:37:58] - a: how much have you put into buying stocks so far? -sam
[2006-01-17 18:37:35] - a: cool, i might try that once i save up some money -sam
[2006-01-17 18:36:33] - Beauty and the Geek 2: "Chris - has only kissed one girl" http://tv.yahoo.com/tvpdb?d=tvi&id=1809249687&cf=ph&pgid=1809254014&photoid=601228&pid=12 that's supposed to be geeky? -sam
[2006-01-17 18:36:06] - fyi, if anybody signs up for scottrade, put paul or me as the referrer b/c then scottrade will give us free trades. i've referred two people and didn't get any free stuff (and i know paul referred me and i didn't put him down as the referrer; sorry, paul
). ~a[2006-01-17 18:35:12] - sam: i use my ira money to buy stocks, and i use just regular money to buy stocks (both through scottrade) ~a
[2006-01-17 18:31:40] - sam: 401k doesn't (usually) let you buy stocks. usually it lets you buy a certain kind of 401k mutual fund. ~a
[2006-01-17 18:23:55] - are you guys using your personal savings to buy stocks or using 401k to buy stocks? -sam
[2006-01-17 17:14:52] - for example, if you were at work looking for an obstetrician, you'd be implicitly indicating a pretty significant piece of personal medical information, which could be abused by your employer. - pierce
[2006-01-17 17:13:04] - speaking of encrypted versus unencrypted http connections, Aetna's Docfind service, which helps you find doctors and specialists covered by your plan, is http. So someone else on your wireless network, or someone monitoring your site access, can see exactly what type of doctors you're searching for. Seems like a pretty serious exposure of private information. - pierce
[2006-01-17 15:36:57] - Paul: hehe, amusing indeed -dave
[2006-01-17 15:34:01] - Dave: Hmmm, I'm not looking forward to that. Thanks for the info, though. -Paul
[2006-01-17 15:33:42] - "Texas quarterback Vince Young has decided to go pro, and Virginia Tech quarterback Marcus Vick has decided to go con.'' Hehehe. Even I can laugh at that. -Paul
[2006-01-17 15:25:10] - Paul: yes the old company - they may ask you to talk to your new company about some stuff too <shrug> -dave
[2006-01-17 15:20:23] - http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2006/football/nfl/specials/playoffs/2005/01/17/bc.fbn.heart.stoppingst.ap/index.html Man recovering after heart attack during steelers game. -Paul
[2006-01-17 15:00:36] - a: It's definitely going to change mine. Otherwise I likely would've sold AMD (and possibly ATYT) already. Now it's a matter of wondering which is worse, paying higher taxes or selling my stocks at a lower price. -Paul
[2006-01-17 14:59:24] - http://news.moneycentral.msn.com/ticker/article.asp?Feed=AP&Date=20060117&ID=5416636&Symbol=US:INTC Apparently AMD is reporting fourth quarter earnings tomorrow. I hope they're better than the analysts expect. -Paul
[2006-01-17 14:58:12] - paul: i heard about that one year thing very recently. it's probably going to change my strategy in the future. ~a
[2006-01-17 14:57:21] - pierce: when google and apple went up huge amounts, i told myself that i needed to diversify. so i sold half of each and used the money to buy some safeway and pfiser. ~a
[2006-01-17 14:56:22] - Pierce: Usually, though, I'll hold onto a stock unless I have good reason to think it's going to drop or not go up much in the near future. -Paul
[2006-01-17 14:55:53] - Pierce: I would like to hold onto my stocks for at least a year before I sell them because I've heard that taxes are a lot lower on stocks that you've held for a year. -Paul
[2006-01-17 14:55:00] - Pierce: That question has been haunting me ever since I sold Sirius after it posted some modest gains but right before it took off.
-Paul[2006-01-17 14:54:41] - pierce: i was out of the market for a while (because my down payment on my apartment was ~70k), but i've probably made about 7k in the market since 2003 (which is hard to put a percentege on because of the large changes in amount i had invested). ~a
[2006-01-17 14:53:10] - so a follow-up question, at what point will you guys feel prompted to sell your *good* stocks? for example, I own about $600 worth of costco, up from $500. costco doesn't seem to be going under anytime soon, it seems like a solid stock, but at what point do I say "I've made enough money off this, I'm going to cash out."? - pierce
[2006-01-17 14:42:46] - Heck, AMD is over half of my stock value so it's recent tumble has certainly been felt by me. -Paul
[2006-01-17 14:42:09] - Pierce: On average, though, during the about two years I've been trading stocks, I've gone from about $8k to what is about $22k right now but I think that's due to incredible luck and it's also entirely possible that it could all go in the crapper quickly since I am not too diversified. -Paul
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