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[2008-10-01 12:15:22] - a: msg board blocked from paul's work as a social networking site... ~gurkie
[2008-10-01 10:03:08] - compared to the iraq war, $4,000 per person is nothing. ~a
[2008-10-01 09:57:41] - paul: no way! did it say why? ~a
[2008-09-30 22:15:38] - Also, if it's not too late for the poll, I give a big thumbs up to the bail out failing. First time I've been impressed with Congress in a long time. -Paul
[2008-09-30 22:15:01] - The message board is blocked at my new job.
-Paul[2008-09-30 16:45:24] - aba: technically I guess it's 4,000 since apple pies are 2 for $1. either way that's a lot of pies - aaron
[2008-09-30 16:29:47] - aba: are you going to finish yours? - pierce
[2008-09-30 14:13:00] - aaron - 2000 mcdonald's apple pies per person! - aba
[2008-09-30 12:13:35] - well i guess if you discount children, homeless, etc... it probably works out to more like $4,000 per person but either way, i bet they can get that. they should just put a little jar next to the ronald mcdonald house thing at mcdonalds - aaron
[2008-09-30 12:11:42] - someone at work just pointed out that $700 billion is really just like $2,333 per person - aaron
[2008-09-30 11:06:02] - well he used to be a friend. now he's more of a friend of a friend of a friend. that sort of thing. ~a
[2008-09-30 10:07:16] - a: what does "kind of know" mean? AND CAN I MEET THEM???? WILL THEY LOAN THEM TO ME!! WHAT IS IT? WHAT IS IT? I WANT IT! WANT IT!!! ~Gurkie
[2008-09-30 09:21:09] - yeah. ~a
[2008-09-30 09:20:50] - a: Interesting. I think the buyer/borrower psychology is definitely deeper than I gave it credit for below, but there's only so much one can do in a few sentences of generalizations. -- Xpovos
[2008-09-30 09:18:28] - xpovos: it wasn't really in the borrower's best interest but that really doesn't matter because the borrower thought it was. ~a
[2008-09-30 09:15:45] - if anybody considers that sfw, let me know because i have a resume i want to give you. ~a
[2008-09-30 07:29:16] - a: Government sponsored enterprise. -- Xpovos
[2008-09-30 05:18:26] - sfw porn (NOT ACTUALLY SFW, PROBABLY) - pierce
[2008-09-29 23:37:59] - xpovos: gses? ~a
[2008-09-29 23:34:04] - because the 'ownership society' and 'American Dream' depend on high rates of home ownership. Add in a little racial politics because many of the less qualified borrowers were racial minorities (due to other socioeconomic issues unrelated) and by the end FNM/FRE could have not existed and this problem would still be what it is. Just maybe 75% as big. -- Xpovos
[2008-09-29 23:32:32] - Everyone and his brother was buying mortgage backed assets via new investment tools created because housing seems so safe. An over-supply of money chasing high safe returns poured into them causing demand to skyrocket. Mortgage rates go down more. Housing prices go up. Anyone who can fog a mirror can get three loans. And this was tacitly backed by political forces...
[2008-09-29 23:30:41] - gurkie: apparently i kind of know someone who owns one of those things. also, he flies some of these things. ~a
[2008-09-29 23:30:37] - It was in the bank's best interest to lie, it was in the borrow's best interest to lie. And because it worked so well, it expanded and expanded. Loaning banks and loan orgination companies didn't care that the borrower's weren't qualified, they made money on fees and points and sent the bag to the GSEs. That's a big factor, no doubt, but FNM/FRE had company. -- Xpovos
[2008-09-29 23:27:35] - a: FNM/FRE's primary role in this situation was in buying 'conforming' loans, taking them off bank balance sheets so that the banks could lend more money --> more mortages and lower rates. Exactly what they were chartered to do. The problems arose from the private sector convincing FNM/FRE that certain non-conforming loans were actually conforming... -- Xpovos
[2008-09-29 21:59:30] - xpovos: do tell. ~a
[2008-09-29 21:50:03] - mig: a good first step, only FNM/FRE are not the whole story... not even really the beginning. -- Xpovos
[2008-09-29 20:09:33] - http://www.lewrockwell.com/blog/lewrw/archives/023223.html#more i think this echoes my sentiments for the most part. - mig
[2008-09-29 18:35:50] - a: Losing the best chunk of 1000 in a single day makes a big dent. Even if we were still at 14000, that's painful. -- Xpovos
[2008-09-29 17:56:44] - god i can't believe the dow is almost down to where it was four years ago. four digits, here we come! ~a
[2008-09-29 17:50:09] - aba: the market gave a big thumbs down. ~a
[2008-09-29 17:49:56] - aba: yeah, i'm just now realizing how stupid my question was. ~a
[2008-09-29 16:14:52] - a: that the bail out failed in the house today. - aba
[2008-09-29 16:13:50] - a: oh yeah you're right, it supports text files and html also. - aaron
[2008-09-29 15:53:16] - aaron: Thanks ~dee
[2008-09-29 15:26:02] - To answer the question, though: I am pleased that the vote failed. I am concerned that they will try again (and they will) and that the new plan will be worse, which is quite likely. But on the short-term, this bill dying is good, IMO. -- Xpovos
[2008-09-29 15:25:45] - bail out failing . . . we should "bail out failing companies" . . . or the "bail out will fail"? ~a
[2008-09-29 15:24:58] - aba: I was merely concerned because I could give a "thumbs down" and that could mean either "thumbs down to the bill" or "thumbs down to the representatives for not passing the bill". -- Xpovos
[2008-09-29 15:24:24] - pierce: Awesome obfuscation. -- Xpovos
[2008-09-29 15:19:56] - xpovos: i'm just trying to get simple gut reactions. nothing too complicated.
- aba[2008-09-29 15:13:14] - xpovos: if you don't necessarily oppose the failure of this bill, don't lower your thumb. - pierce
[2008-09-29 15:06:38] - aba: to be clear, can we rephrase your poll? -- Xpovos
[2008-09-29 15:04:43] - message board poll..... bail out failing: thumbs up or thumbs down? - aba
[2008-09-29 15:01:17] - aaron: no it sounds like the kindle will read a few other formats. also it's not that it's proprietary (small evil), it's that it's digitally restricted (large evil). ~a
[2008-09-29 14:52:23] - Hmm. $700B stays in our collective and non-existant wallet... for now. -- Xpovos
[2008-09-29 13:25:06] - a: Yeah, but the kindle is designed to only read that proprietary format - aaron
[2008-09-29 13:12:34] - aarodee: the problem with the azw files is you can't (hypothetically) move them around to other devices as you would expect. ~a
[2008-09-29 12:01:40] - dee: Also he said they his battery runs down in 3 days even if he doesn't use it, so he has to charge it frequently. But it sounds like he really likes the product. Also he said he saves a lot of money on books since it's cheaper to buy them electronically ($9.95 instead of the sticker price) - aaron
[2008-09-29 12:00:39] - dee: He says it's really good, he uses it with the books from amazon.com (so probably the azw files) and newspapers. Reading magazines sucks because they don't download the pictures, and magazines tend to be picture-heavy - aaron
[2008-09-29 10:30:10] - paul: hope ur first day is going well sign on to gtalk/aim if you can ~gurkie
[2008-09-29 10:27:42] - dave: happy birthday! ~gurkie
[2008-09-29 09:49:38] - aaron: does he use the azw file format on his kindle? ~a
[2008-09-29 09:16:56] - dee: One of my coworkers has a kindle, I'll ask him about it today - aaron
[2008-09-29 08:00:03] - pierce: I'd go one further and say that even if we tried, we'd be unsuccesful in maintaining any particular chosen path over a period of time and it would lead back to the initial argument very quickly. -- Xpovos
[2008-09-29 00:56:49] - xpovos: exactly my point. it's far too big a step to simply assert that we'd be better off without regulations. of course, that leads into the same circular argument we've had so many times before about how you can't prove it's better unless we try it, and we won't try it unless you can prove it's better. - pierce
[2008-09-29 00:13:58] - pierce: I'll cite the current situation as a seriously bad situation in which rules existed that may have protected against some of this, but were not enforced. I'd cite an unregulated economy for a counter example of perhaps a non-fucked up economy, but amazingly, I was unable to find such a beast. -- Xpovos
[2008-09-28 23:52:17] - the only thing i know about it is you don't want to use it with the azw files that amazon sells. ~a
[2008-09-28 17:22:21] - Does anyone have or know anyone that has a Kindle? And if so any feedback?? http://www.macintouch.com/reviews/kindle/ ~Dee
[2008-09-28 02:46:10] - "...results in seriously bad situations. Far worse than unregulated ones." [citation needed] - pierce
[2008-09-28 02:41:32] - So, as a pointed out, and you agreed with, the simplest step is to enforce regulation. If that is too costly, politically unfeasible, or otherwise impossible, then the next solution is to eliminate them, because leaving regulations on the books, but not enforcing them results in seriously bad situations. Far worse than unregulated ones. -- Xpovos
[2008-09-28 02:23:46] - pierce: No, you misunderstood my argument. 1) I believe we ought to have fewer regulations because of economic philosophy. 2) Economic reality insists we have regulation. 3) Some regulation required under 2 to be ignored resulting in absue. Therefore, either consistantly and uniformly enforce 2) or eliminate 2). -- Xpovos
[2008-09-27 20:25:17] - amazingly, that episode has only been referenced on the message board once . . . by paul no less. ~a
[2008-09-27 20:21:24] - 3: profit. ~a
[2008-09-27 20:20:54] - pierce: hah i was thinking the same thing. i was having a hard time thinking of how to explain the missing step in the logic. ~a
[2008-09-27 19:24:26] - that argument, if I understand it correctly, does not make a lot of sense to me. the obvious answer to (2) is that we should invest more effort into the existing regulations. none of it seems to support the claim that having more regulations is bad, though. - pierce
[2008-09-27 19:23:01] - xpovos: so do I understand your argument correctly? 1. we had regulations in place; 2. we did not consistently or sufficiently enforce those regulations; 3. because of 2, there was widespread abuse; 4. therefore, we should have fewer regulations. - pierce
[2008-09-27 18:00:34] - debacle. If you have rules written down, you need to enforce them, and do so uniformly. To do otherwise confuses the issue, and you get a wide range of effects from those not following any regulation and not getting in trouble, to those following every regulation and getting into trouble. -- Xpovos
[2008-09-27 17:59:39] - a: Anyone, e.g. Obama, who believes this could have been avoided through more regulation tends to think that the fiscally conservative libertarian-leaning republicans are to blame. As I'm one of those (sort of, albeit unelected) I disagree, since as we discussed previously, I agreed that the level of regulation we had and the failure to enforce were indeed factors in this
[2008-09-27 17:09:15] - ugh. it seems like weigel is saying that it's libertarians fault we're in this mess. maybe i misunderstood his overall point? what was your reasoning in posting the link anyways? ~a
[2008-09-27 17:07:29] - a: I'm not sure I understand your [misquote]. -Paul
[2008-09-27 13:20:48] - paul: "nobody trusts [fiscally conservative libertarian-leaning republicans] on these situations, for good reasons" ? ~a
[2008-09-27 10:34:01] - a: Ah, ok. Why hopefully not his opinions? -Paul
[2008-09-27 10:31:14] - paul: http://reason.com/news/show/129017.html david weigel? ~a
[2008-09-27 10:25:09] - a: I have no idea, and that's part of why it confused me. First I hadn't heard anything about Paul being on the ballot in VA at all, and I'm usually up on information like that. So I'm totally confused now. Is he, or isn't he, on the ballot. -- Xpovos
[2008-09-27 09:37:46] - a: I'm not sure who Weigel is, but I'm talking about people like Ron Paul and other Austrian economists that I've read. -Paul
[2008-09-26 17:05:21] - hah. the roller coaster we rode on the top of "new york-new york" in las vegas was made by the same manufacturer that created the shockwave. that's only notable because the manufacturer (togo), only made a handful of other coasters. ~a
[2008-09-26 16:21:32] - https://www.msu.edu/~sheppa28/elections.html how many votes would need to change to alter the outcome of past presidential elections? - aaron
[2008-09-26 13:45:31] - xpovos: latter == "virginia" or latter == "louisiana and virginia"? ~a
[2008-09-26 13:44:33] - mig: how did you come to that conclusion? why do you think a crash is inevitable and how would you even go about logically arguing that? ~a
[2008-09-26 13:43:43] - "Montana is one of three states — Louisiana and Virginia are the others — where Ron Paul has been placed on the general election ballot. In none of these cases did he ask for it. In the latter case, he successfully removed himself from contention." -- Xpovos
[2008-09-26 13:29:07] - a: i'm not sure that the bailout will really stop the crash. It seems to me that it is really only delaying the inevitable. - mig
[2008-09-26 10:33:44] - paul: just curious, whose opinions are you talking about? hopefully not weigel's opinions. ~a
[2008-09-26 10:31:49] - that's not funny. you need to support our president. we all need to get behind this president since he won the election. ~a
[2008-09-26 10:21:32] - a: And if the president tells me otherwise, I think that's a good reason to think I'm right.
-Paul[2008-09-26 10:21:03] - a: And I generally think that the government throwing money at a problem is a sure way to make the problem worse. -Paul
[2008-09-26 10:20:35] - a: I'll fully admit that I don't know enough to say for certain one way or the other, but people whose opinions I value seem to think that government intervention is only going to make things worse (and is what got us into this mess in the first place). -Paul
[2008-09-26 09:26:15] - before you answer, i should remind you that the president told us otherwise. ~a
[2008-09-26 09:25:45] - paul: so you're saying we should let it crash? ~a
[2008-09-26 09:22:11] - a: Specifically? I think the bailout is going to pass in one form or another because every politician wants to seem like they are taking a proactive stance on this even if the best thing to do would be to not spend $700 billion. -Paul
[2008-09-26 09:21:06] - http://www.culture11.com/node/32315?from=feature Really sucks that Ron Paul isn't running for president anymore, because it seems like his absence is splintering his support between Barr, Baldwin and Paul during an election where I think a third party candidate would have a good shot at decent vote totals. -Paul
[2008-09-26 09:20:46] - paul: heh. what are your thoughts on that link? ~a
[2008-09-26 08:58:44] - http://reason.com/news/show/129017.html Libertarian-minded Republicans are caught with their pants down as Wall Street panics the Capital City -Paul
[2008-09-25 23:01:44] - Aaron: Thanks! -Paul
[2008-09-25 22:07:36] - hahaha i fell asleep during the office
long day -Dee\[2008-09-25 20:27:55] - mig: hah, that's funny. are you excited? so many good things happened today. dee graduated, the office (i just said that), and jack thompson disbarred! ~a
[2008-09-25 20:24:43] - in honor of my birthday, NBC is putting the season premiere of the office on tonight. ~a
[2008-09-25 19:56:50] - dee: yeah happy birthday Adrian!
[2008-09-25 18:58:22] - *** pierce points at the title.
[2008-09-25 17:26:20] - http://www.gamepolitics.com/2008/07/09/we-have-judge039s-report-recommending-permanent-disbarment-jack-thompson
[2008-09-25 15:38:54] - a: happy b'day buddy - vinnie
[2008-09-25 13:56:30] - title: Happy Birthday Adrian
[2008-09-25 13:41:58] - does anybody know when the party starts? i.e. when are people going from the university to david's house? ~a
[2008-09-25 11:48:51] - paul: 1pm at the Center for the Arts at George Mason University, 4400 University Dr, Fairfax VA 22030. I'd guess "nice casual" would be good enough, so no jeans and no t-shirts - aaron
[2008-09-25 10:04:58] - Does anybody have any information about Dee's actual graduation ceremony in terms of where it's at and when and whether I need to be dressed up?
-Paul[2008-09-25 09:39:43] - no ddr for me today; i'm going to dee's graduation celebration - aaron
[2008-09-24 19:55:22] - aaron: that would make a great sprite ad. if you worked for sprite's advertising agency, you'd have a big christmas bonus coming your way. - pierce
[2008-09-24 19:30:41] - Maybe more like "the fruit of the loom challenge"? - aaron
[2008-09-24 19:28:09] - pierce: I remember that criticism of the pepsi challenge. However, everybody uses Pepsi the same way, whereas an OS taste-test would need to be a lot more in depth. - aaron
[2008-09-24 18:14:50] - like, pepsi is sweeter than coke in my opinion. so while I might enjoy it more than coke if I was just taking a little anonymous taste-testing shot of it, I wouldn't want to drink it as a primary beverage. - pierce
[2008-09-24 18:13:54] - so the mojave experiment is basically just the pepsi challenge for computers, right? it seems to have exactly the same problem as the pepsi challenge, which is that enjoying a little of something is very different from enjoying using that thing every day. - pierce
[2008-09-24 15:40:25] - is windows 7 really mojave? "If Windows 7 at launch does not contain multi-touch support 'throughout the OS,' we can assume it's Mojave -- Vista sold as something new. . . . we'll find out if Windows 7 is really just the Mojave Experiment, but on a massive scale." ~a
[2008-09-24 15:37:10] - gurkie: fixed. ~a
[2008-09-24 15:35:11] - xpovos: i think it was a bit of luck, I tried some other attempts and they didnt come up with nearly as good of matches... ~gurkie
[2008-09-24 15:31:55] - gurkie: oh yeah i forgot to fix that. ~a
[2008-09-24 15:29:44] - a: wiki appears to be broken, when I tried to edit a page or search for a nonexistant screen it crashed on me... (i tried bday and birthday) ~gurkie
[2008-09-24 15:29:14] - I guess it's linked to how good of an artist you are then? None of my attempts came close either. -- Xpovos
[2008-09-24 15:22:36] - aaron: thats cool! ~gurkie
[2008-09-24 15:22:28] - a: http://www.flickr.com/photos/86764550@N00/31688648 my smily face did decent... ~gurkie
[2008-09-24 14:45:12] - a: i tried to draw a hot dog and it gave me a picture of a bathtub. then i tried to draw the earth, and it gave me some pictures of the moon, and a weird blue-green frog. so it comes pretty close - aaron
[2008-09-24 14:30:04] - aaron: did it work for you? it didn't do a very good job for me. i also tried to upload a face using the "search by image" and none of the results were pictures of faces. ~a
[2008-09-24 14:07:39] - http://labs.systemone.at/retrievr/ matches your sketch to images on flickr - aaron
[2008-09-24 13:33:19] - gurkie: 370,280,000 seconds past epoch. ~a
[2008-09-24 13:29:10] - http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/08266/914029-298.stm 50% is the minimum grade for students in pittsburgh public schools. - mig
[2008-09-24 13:18:20] - gurkie: It's on LJ. -- Xpovos
[2008-09-24 12:57:03] - a: ps update the bday wiki page to include ur bday! ~gurkie
[2008-09-24 12:56:44] - a: Happy Birthday, I have no idea when ur bday is but remember it in Sept, and its not on the wiki... so this is as good a guesstimate as ur getting.. ~gurkie
[2008-09-24 11:41:48] - So, the Republicans are blaming the Democrats, and the Democrats are blaming the Republicans, and both parties are blaming the greed of Wall St. But neither party is taking any accountability for their complete lack of oversight or enforcement of the rules that were on the books. -- Xpovos
[2008-09-22 15:19:22] - Cool, Mish is right on top of things again, I see. Definitely one of the most potent blogs in this whole situation. -- Xpovos
[2008-09-22 15:15:00] - but apparently both parties are trying to add oversight provisions to the bill - vinnie
[2008-09-22 15:14:08] - and non-reviewable and discretionary outside of court of law too
- vinnie[2008-09-22 15:13:07] - xpovos: http://www.chimpsternation.com/forum?c=showthread&ThreadID=3049 summing up, the parts that jump out are that the decisions made by the secretary are limitless (limited only to 700B at a time), and non-reviewable by court of law or agency - vinnie
[2008-09-22 15:03:38] - vinnie: How would you define accountability in this circumstance? -- Xpovos
[2008-09-22 15:01:53] - that was me - vinnie
[2008-09-22 15:01:45] - I have no idea about whether the bailout is a good idea or not. I think probably very few people do, including many of the politicians making the decision. what worries me is that apparently the bill gives the treasury the power to make this bailout (and future bailouts?) with no accountabilities?
[2008-09-22 14:53:44] - pierce: Everyone already knows I'm a fool. -- Xpovos
[2008-09-22 14:53:16] - As one last aside, we do have one historical point to observe. The Great Depression. In that situation, a "pull it off slow" method was employed, to fairly disasterous effect. The only upside to this all is that the GD is Bernanke's area of expertise. Your call as to whether or not that's a good thing. -- Xpovos
[2008-09-22 14:53:02] - xpovos: can't speak for everyone, but I'm adhering strictly to the "better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak out and remove all doubt" principle. - pierce
[2008-09-22 14:51:05] - I have ideas about what I would do, if I were in charge of the 'doing something', but that's where political and economic schools of thought really come in. Libertarians and Austrian economists would agree with me. Everyone else would disagree; and there's not going to be sufficient common ground to build any consensus. So we get what Paulson and Bush want, more or less
[2008-09-22 14:49:48] - a/pierce: You're both right. I'm not saying "letting it crash" is at all prudent. I certainly think it's a politically acceptable thing to say, "we need to do something", but the seemingly universal anger and frustration with the proposed "something" amazes me because it's so quiet. -- Xpovos
[2008-09-22 14:47:55] - a: If that's the case, it all makes sense, but I think somehow it got implied that screaming monkey is tasteless. It might simply be confusing--as Pierce said; why would I want to download a screaming monkey? -- Xpovos
[2008-09-22 14:47:06] - xpovos: yeah, exactly what a said on both counts. screaming monkey is just dumb, but not offensive. definitely unprofessional. as for your economic metaphor, what if pulling the bandage off quickly tears up the clotting and scabbing and starts a life-threatening hemorrhage? I know I'm stretching your analogy too far, but that's my point... it's not simple. - pierce
[2008-09-22 14:42:11] - xpovos: i think pierce was saying that "the gimp" was tasteless and "screaming monkey" doesn't NEED to be taste-full (?) because it's an internal project name (though i'm not sure i agree). ~a
[2008-09-22 14:41:07] - what if "let it crash" turns into a great depression and a "pull it off slow" amortizes the damage and we're able to recover in the long term? hypothetical of course, like pierce said, who the hell knows? ~a
[2008-09-22 14:40:31] - It'll make me sound out of touch, I realize; but why is "screaming monkey" tasteless? -- Xpovos
[2008-09-22 14:38:49] - At the end, neither one fixes the problem. The first introduces a shock of additional quick pain, whereas the second masks the pain beneath a panacea of "we're doing something, at least". -- Xpovos
[2008-09-22 14:37:58] - Pierce: a simple analogy then. We have a gaping wound in the economy. Foolish attempts have been made to attempt to place a bandaid on the wound, but it was too large. Now we need to pull off the bandaid. The "let it crash" mentality is the "pull it off fast" mentality. The "$700B bailout" mentality is the "pull it off slow" mentality. -- Xpovos
[2008-09-22 14:36:13] - the obvious follow-up is that I should educate myself enough to be someone who can argue, but the material has a steep learning curve and I'm a busy man. - pierce
[2008-09-22 14:34:15] - xpovos: it's because it's over most people's heads. I'm a smart guy and it's over my head. I see "experts" saying "yeah, this sucks but if we don't do it there shall be DOOM" and who am I to argue? - pierce
[2008-09-22 14:29:50] - okay, well that doesn't sound like a "product", like you're not going to go to a website and download screamingmonkey-win32-installer.exe. it's just the internal name for the project. they can make that as tasteless as they want, since it won't be something I have to explain to my coworkers.
- pierce[2008-09-22 14:26:11] - It's astonishing to me how many people, from all different political and economic schools of thought, are completely pissed about this "$700 bailout". And yet it's quiet. No one is screaming from the windows, "I'm mad as hell and not going to take it anymore." -- Xpovos
[2008-09-22 14:11:30] - an interview where it's discussed ~a
[2008-09-22 14:09:25] - pierce: screaming monkey is mozilla's attempt to bring better standards support to msie. so, they're writing a plugin FOR msie. ~a
[2008-09-22 14:05:23] - aaron: guhwha? - pierce
[2008-09-22 14:02:18] - pierce: at least GIMP stands for something, i want to see mozilla defend "screaming monkey" - aaron
[2008-09-22 13:52:29] - a/vinnie: Very cool! -- Xpovos
[2008-09-22 13:50:41] - a: I'm running "pierce's greatest hits" this week. - pierce
[2008-09-22 13:44:33] - pierce: i really haven't noticed the same problem you have with the name. however, i probably don't make as big of a deal about the name as you do. (minor difference, i refer to it as "gimp" instead of "the gimp". i know it's technically incorrect and probably doesn't matter, but it's a minor difference) ~a
[2008-09-22 13:37:24] - pierce: you've made this argument already. it might have been irl; regardless i can't find it on the message board or ph0. ~a
[2008-09-22 13:26:59] - a: nice
- vinnie[2008-09-22 13:06:21] - frankly, the "haha we're so ironic and subversive" thing, isn't. I know Pulp Fiction made it cool again, but calling your project "the gimp" is no less tasteless than calling it "the retard", which I don't think many people would advocate. - pierce
[2008-09-22 13:03:05] - I just had to explain to a coworker what image editor I was using for some UI mockups. I really think the gimp needs to change their name if they want to be taken seriously as a photoshop alternative. - pierce
[2008-09-22 12:43:28] - vinnie: that is awesome! ~gurkie
[2008-09-22 12:15:16] - vinnie: omg that is really cool. mix-in with the message board signature colors: http://aporter.org/msg/tmp/sign.html ~a
[2008-09-22 12:01:27] - a: he reprised the character on robot chicken, too. - pierce
[2008-09-22 11:36:29] - http://labs.ideeinc.com/multicolr - vinnie
[2008-09-22 10:26:28] - wow, colbert actually got ahmed to voice jar jar for his show? ~a
[2008-09-22 09:15:18] - teaching kids to cheat? teaching to a test is not cheating. wtf? ~a
[2008-09-22 08:53:59] - mig: not to mention obvious inconstancies. his graph shows no change in spending on public schools adjusted for inflation. his graph is also inexplicably missing a source. ~a
[2008-09-22 08:51:42] - mig: this looks like one of the least scientific presentations i've ever seen. basically he's got a hypothesis and he's finding all the data he can to prove his hypothesis. ~a
[2008-09-21 22:22:59] - paul: http://www.angryflower.com/ahmedb.html ahmed best - aaron
[2008-09-21 12:23:59] - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bx4pN-aiofw i might have linked this on here earlier, but i think it's somewhat relevant. - mig
[2008-09-21 10:57:16] - If education belongs as a state priority, which I disagree with internally, but will allow that I'm in the minority on that--so will accept for the purposes of furthering debate, should be at highest third on my list. It also seems reasonable that funding should flow to the highest priorities first. -- Xpovos
[2008-09-21 10:55:48] - The second most important, again IMO, would be the free flow of commerce. The whole of that (Transportation, Commerce & Trade, Technology, etc) gets about another 10%. -- Xpovos
[2008-09-21 10:54:24] - It's an argument I've had a number of times; "What is the most important aspect of the state?" With the state being any government. The best answer, IMO, is protection of the citizenry from larger threats so a sufficent military and/or police force. For Virginia, "Public Safety" gets 10% of the budget. -- Xpovos
[2008-09-21 10:52:17] - a: Check out the data source. Education is the single biggest expense (which makes sense at 40%) but the next two (Health and Human Resources & Transportation) just about even add up to Education. HH+R is about 2/3 Education and Transportation is a little less than a third. -- Xpovos
[2008-09-20 23:28:58] - i just ate three dinners. i had dinner three times. at 4:30, at 6, and at 10. 1400+ calories each. and i'm still so fucking hungry. ~a
[2008-09-20 21:30:12] - xpovos: what are virginia's other costs? i.e. 40% is pretty low considering there's not much else virginia does (please correct me here) ~a
[2008-09-20 21:23:24] - data source. -- Xpovos
[2008-09-20 21:20:06] - So perhaps it would be more helpful to look at a smaller entity? Virginia's state budget is set up ever two years. This time around that two year budget was about $76B. Education costs (paid by Virginia out of the general and non-general funds) will be $30B, or about 40%. Is that a rational/reasonable amount to spend to get the quality of education we do get?-- Xpovos
[2008-09-20 20:37:29] - fuck. ~a
[2008-09-19 15:15:54] - i think it's because it's less than a penny per student per $ gdp. - aba
[2008-09-19 14:45:29] - the map says: top: 0, middle: 0, bottom: 0. ~a
[2008-09-19 14:44:51] - aaron: i noticed the same thing. it's probably a bug. the map has the same problem. ~a
[2008-09-19 14:37:23] - a: The numbers on Per $ GDP all say "$0.00 per student per $1,000" for me. The bars aren't proportional to the data. I don't know if it's a browser thing, but if the data's accurate, then US seems to be spending as much as the other countries in the list - aaron
[2008-09-19 13:29:32] - aba: I was looking at the wrong tab... ~gurkie
[2008-09-19 13:29:30] - gurkie: click on "Per $ GDP" ~A
[2008-09-19 13:23:23] - aba: not sure I am reading it right but it looks like, France, UK, Germany and Spain all spend 2K less per student than the US does... ~gurkie
[2008-09-19 13:07:49] - gurkie: http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/edu_spe_per_pri_sch_stu-spending-per-primary-school-student <-- per student per $ gdp spending on education in europe far surpasses america. - aba
[2008-09-19 12:17:05] - i think it is very telling that pretty much everyone in congress for the most part does not send their children to public schools. - mig
[2008-09-19 12:09:30] - don't get the wrong picture about public schools. for the most part, in my schools kids didn't do drugs, drink, or involve themselves in sexual activities. i'm not even convinced that the average private school would have less than the average public schools in incidents of the above. ~a
[2008-09-19 12:07:30] - ok then. ~a
[2008-09-19 12:04:59] - a: I didnt say you were wrong about the elitism, I just hadnt realized you had said it... ~gurkie
[2008-09-19 11:58:05] - gurkie: keeping kids away from "riffraff" is the epitome of elitism. ~a
[2008-09-19 11:55:58] - a: but at the same time as far as I knew in middle school no one I went to school with did drugs, drank, were involved in sexual activity... whereas I heard about that sort of stuff happening at other schools. Im not saying none of my friends, I am saying no one I had heard of in the whole school... ~gurkie
[2008-09-19 11:53:29] - a: and yes I think some people are sent to private schools to keep them away from the "riffraff" or to keep them in a safe environment where you dont have to go through a metal detector to get into school... ~gurkie
[2008-09-19 11:52:45] - a: I think a sheltered environment has plusses and minuses, at some point in life most people are exposed to the real world and being sheltered ill prepares you for that. ~gurkie
[2008-09-19 11:48:13] - I feel like the average american speaks English (or another language) and may have a rudimentary grasp of a second language, or they are from a bilingual family and speak 2 langugages... More a product of their family than of our education system. ~gurkie
[2008-09-19 11:47:21] - paul: I also dont think that the govt does a great job... I am always impressed with people educated in Europe not only do they seem to have higher literacy rates but their language abilities/knowledge far surpasses that of the average American. I feel like most people I have met who were educated in Europe speak 5 languages. ~gurkie
[2008-09-19 11:45:59] - do you think a sheltered environment is generally a good thing or generally a bad thing? ~a
[2008-09-19 11:43:50] - gurkie: you don't think some (i.e. not you) kids are sent to private schools because their parents want to keep them away from the riffraff? ~a
[2008-09-19 11:41:59] - a: we went so we could keep my group of friends together in a somewhat sheltered environment, which I think was partially so we didnt get picked on as we were visibly different (based on religion...) but other than sex ed I think we learned the normal stuff... ~gurkie
[2008-09-19 11:40:38] - a: my graduating class was only 10 kids... and I dont know we might have been too small of a school or something, but they didnt teach sex ed at all. also I totally missed where you said people go for elitism... ~gurkie
[2008-09-19 11:39:20] - gurkie: don't most schools have sex-ed starting in like 5th or 6th grade? ~a
[2008-09-19 11:38:13] - paul: what i wonder is: how many countries have "better" education systems than us compared to how many countries put more money per capita into their education system. in other words, you claim that lots of money is thrown at the public school system, and that it still sucks, but i'm not sure i agree when compared to other countries. ~a
[2008-09-19 11:37:21] - a: I went to a non-religious school... we studied dinosaurs and evolution... we didnt however have sex-ed I think that had more to do with the tiny-ness of the school and it being 8th grade than anything else... ~gurkie
[2008-09-19 11:02:59] - Pierce: According to the United Nations, Kazakhstan has a better literacy rate than we do. -Paul
[2008-09-19 11:02:01] - Pierce: We may not be able to say what constitutes "good" education, but I would like to think that at least being able to teach people how to read would qualify as a requirement. -Paul
[2008-09-19 10:58:17] - Pierce: And in my opinion, which I hope I am qualified to have, I believe that the government does a very unacceptable job of educating people considering the amounts of money thrown at the public school system. -Paul
[2008-09-19 10:53:39] - Pierce: Do I think the private sector would do as good of a job as the government does? No, I think it would do much better. -Paul
[2008-09-19 10:52:45] - http://www.bobbarr2008.com/press/press-releases/133/bob-barr-files-suit-in-texas-to-remove-mccain-obama-from-ballot/ bob barr says both obama and mccain are ineligible to be on the ballot in texas. - mig
[2008-09-19 10:23:24] - i be feeling lucky ~a
[2008-09-19 08:08:34] - pierce: who is qualified? ~a
[2008-09-19 02:53:42] - paul: what pierce said.
- aba[2008-09-18 21:09:05] - rambling done. - pierce
[2008-09-18 21:08:31] - anyway, back to the point, the government has done a reasonable job providing acceptable education to a significant chunk of the population, so if that's a high priority for you then you can say the government does a good job. - pierce
[2008-09-18 21:06:31] - not to the complete exclusion, obviously... in the real world you balance things. but gun to my head, that's the choice I'd make if it was one or the other. - pierce
[2008-09-18 21:05:03] - for example, I think providing an "acceptable" education to the maximum number of people is perhaps more important than providing an excellent education to the people with most potential. this, despite a large chunk of my education being a manifestation of the opposite. - pierce
[2008-09-18 21:02:05] - none of us are qualified to answer these questions. none of us are qualified to know what questions are the important ones. - pierce
[2008-09-18 21:00:47] - paul: which opens up lots of other questions, because "which does education more gooder" isn't a real question. what's good? availability of advanced courses for smart kids? balanced education for people in urban versus suburban versus rural areas? engaging extracurricular programs? - pierce
[2008-09-18 20:58:07] - paul: the counterquestion is, do you think the private sector would do as good a job at education as the government does, if it was scaled to the population of the public school system and given the same budget. - pierce
[2008-09-18 18:26:53] - aba: Fair enough. Do you think the government does a good job at education? -Paul
[2008-09-18 18:13:44] - pierce: parents just don't understand.
[2008-09-18 18:11:27] - a: I went to nonreligious private school before TJ. Yes, we talked about evolution and safe sex and abortion and not creationism. I don't know how representative my experience was compared to other private schools. My parents sent me there because they believed it offered a better education than public schooling. I don't know if they were right. - pierce
[2008-09-18 17:34:17] - paul: you can't compare apples and oranges.
- aba[2008-09-18 17:34:05] - paul: the goal of the government is to provide education to everyone within a specific tax capped budget. the goal of a private school is to provide education to whoever can pay X amount of money where X is generally some amount larger than the tax capped budget. i don't think that means the government is doing a bad job. - aba
[2008-09-18 17:09:12] - a: So one might say that the government doesn't do a good job with schools compared to the private sector? -Paul
[2008-09-18 17:08:37] - a: Ok, well, you weakened your argument by explaining how you feel like religion might be detrimental to science in a post to Miguel shortly afterwards.
-Paul[2008-09-18 16:33:48] - there's a fourth reason, and you've already mentioned it . . . private schools have more funding. ~a
[2008-09-18 16:32:59] - yes, those are three possible reasons. and all three of them independent. ~a
[2008-09-18 16:30:42] - a: It seemed like you were implying it when you said people send their kids to private schools for "religion and elitism and so they don't have their children taught science". -Paul
[2008-09-18 16:22:42] - i implied no such thing, your inference notwithstanding. ~a
[2008-09-18 16:21:32] - a: I guess it probably should've been directed at you instead. I was making a joke about how you seemed to imply that wanting to learn religion in school means not taking science classes. -Paul
[2008-09-18 16:18:11] - aary: better? ~a
[2008-09-18 16:16:54] - mig: the thing i liked about science was the focus on being able to observe and test your world view. i have a bad feeling like that perspective is probably lost in many science classes around the world especially in schools where testing/observing goes parallel with heresy and is contrary to faith. ~a
[2008-09-18 16:13:05] - vinnie: nay for the same reason as last week. my coworker is getting harassed and wants somebody to help from getting beat up. ~a
[2008-09-18 16:08:20] - there was discussion about safe sex and abortion, though (unsurprisingly) the discussion was pretty biased. - mig
[2008-09-18 16:07:12] - a; they, unsurprisingly, were very pro abstinance. As far as the other stuff, from what I remember, it wasn't exactly a "earth is literally 6000 years old" type perspective. - mig
[2008-09-18 16:06:42] - nobody call me that - aaron
[2008-09-18 16:01:37] - oops
[2008-09-18 16:01:29] - vinnie: i'm in - aary
[2008-09-18 16:01:15] - ddr: yay or nay? - vinnie
[2008-09-18 16:00:46] - mig: did you talk about evolution in science class? or dinosaurs? or abortion? or safe sex? did you not talk about creationism in a science class? ~a
[2008-09-18 15:57:16] - a: catholic schools teach science. - mig
[2008-09-18 15:48:38] - yep. ~a
[2008-09-18 15:38:11] - a: How so what? About religion and science not being able to coexist? -Paul
[2008-09-18 15:36:06] - paul: how so? ~a
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