prev <-> next
[2009-12-10 10:38:09] - paul: i ddon't recall where in the constitution it states that it is congress's duty to make sure college football's postseason is fair and equitable. - mig
[2009-12-10 10:28:42] - http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5isQ1DkWtlreF6Tk2_clHtHAzH0SQD9CFSMVO0 "A House subcommittee has approved legislation aimed at forcing college football to switch to a playoff system to determine a national champion." -Paul
[2009-12-10 10:00:49] - I want more desserts from Bangalore
- Stephen[2009-12-10 09:59:29] - vinnie: hmm that's a pretty good fit. - aaron
[2009-12-10 09:35:49] - aaron: facetious? - vinnie
[2009-12-10 07:33:06] - Pierce - Ouch, yeah, I'm not sure I'm willing to pay that much either. And I like Muse! - Stephen
[2009-12-10 07:32:12] - and then if someone took you seriously, you might apologize "oh, sorry, i was just being grapenuttic" or something, where grapenuttic is an actual word - aaron
[2009-12-10 07:32:08] - hey isn't there a pierce word for when you say something deliberately stupid for humorous intent, like, "iraq - isn't that the capital of iran" - aaron
[2009-12-10 07:27:06] - gurkie: but the funny thing is that the customer, like instantly recognized it when he heard it. "Oh yeah! one oh seven! thanks!" - aaron
[2009-12-09 23:54:29] - bleh. the muse concert I mentioned at SYTYCD tonight is $55 for a monday night show. think I'll pass. I've been itching for a concert though, so if anyone hears about anything compelling (besides battle of the bands, of course) let me know. - pierce
[2009-12-09 18:55:34] - yeah it's probably often 108. ~a
[2009-12-09 18:39:48] - http://notalwaysright.com/questionable-intelligence/3431 what amuses me about this one is that honestly in most hotels its not 107... ~gurkie
[2009-12-09 17:31:34] - a: well okay then
~gurkie[2009-12-09 17:29:20] - gurkie: it was on old feature. it doesn't exist anymore. ~a
[2009-12-09 17:28:56] - aaron: yeah! remember? you even posted some files to it. gif files only
and they had to be less than a certain size (in pixels and megabytes). i still have the directory of files that were posted over the years here: "download" ~a[2009-12-09 17:15:02] - how do you see this new word feature? ~gurkie
[2009-12-09 16:36:05] - a: wow you used to allow embedded images? - aaron
[2009-12-09 15:54:54] - gurkie: archive: new word: madmax (02) ~a
[2009-12-09 15:53:28] - gurkie: i didn't post that, but "new words" was an old feature of the message board that analyzed the history of the board and told everybody of words that hadn't been said here before. it was mildly entertaining. ~a
[2009-12-09 15:10:49] - pierce: I was wondering that too... well more in what context they could be construed as "new" ~gurkie
[2009-12-09 14:55:53] - are those really new words? I can believe no one else says "insofar", but assert and subscribe? - pierce
[2009-12-09 13:42:36] - a: to me that seems like it hurts the people not the govt. They charge people with unenforced laws in order to have time to gather evidence for the enforced ones... ~gurkie
[2009-12-09 13:37:35] - vinnie: they have to print and distribute the laws. people have to be taught the laws. law enforcement must determine which laws to enforce so "unenforced" laws have to be weighed as possible laws to enforce. people might get prosecuted for these "unenforced" laws because law enforcement couldn't get anything else to stick. ~a
[2009-12-09 13:36:01] - aaron: lol. you've got me thinking now. maybe congress can replace filibustering with recording books on tape, with the profit going right back to the taxpayers - vinnie
[2009-12-09 12:32:48] - vinnie: maybe they can outlaw filibustering - and instead of filibustering, block bills by spending time overturning outdated laws
- aaron[2009-12-09 12:00:54] - so insofar as the speaker just wants to hold that opinion regardless of its merit, it's fine. but once he or she started to assert (using faulty reasoning) that it was logical and thus that others should subscribe to it, that's where its failings should be pointed out. - pierce
[2009-12-09 11:59:57] - oops, cost more I mean - vinnie
[2009-12-09 11:59:39] - a: no I'm not sure, but it makes sense, right? it would take time to write a proposal to overturn the law and vote on it and so forth. what were the scenarios you were thinking of where it would cost less to leave them unenforced? - vinnie
[2009-12-09 11:58:06] - paul: the statement of opinion was that there should be two houses, the 2/3rds to pass house and the 1/3rd to repeal house. the other part was the logical defense of that opinion, and it was a circular argument. - pierce
[2009-12-09 10:46:52] - vinnie: are you sure it would cost less to leave them unenforced? i can think of some scenarios where that's not the case. also money isn't the only consideration. but you might be right: even if it doesn't necessarily come down to money, that may be the reason cited. ~a
[2009-12-09 09:25:26] - it would cost more money to repeal unenforced laws than to leave them and not enforce them, so I think that's the real reason why they aren't removed. the only time they repeal them is when they DO get enforced (like that sodomy case in Texas) - vinnie
[2009-12-09 08:50:04] - Pierce: I guess I'm just not sure I see your point in all of this (beyond a simple "I disagree"). I maintain that the quote is pretty much a statement of opinion (like "Better ingredients, better pizza") and not an attempt to make some sort of irrefutable logical proof tht better ingredients must always mean better pizza. -Paul
[2009-12-09 00:47:25] - paul: again, I acknowledge that. but the quoted argument clearly believed that good laws have public support (albeit to its particular fraction). once again, just saying that the quoted argument's conclusion did not follow from its premise. - pierce
[2009-12-09 00:18:45] - LINE PIECE! ~a
[2009-12-08 23:11:16] - http://www.collegehumor.com/video:1924722 the tetris god (video) - aaron
[2009-12-08 22:48:44] - http://www.georgehart.com/bagel/bagel.html it is much more fun to put cream cheese on these bagels than on an ordinary bagel. in additional to the intellectual stimulation, you get more cream cheese, because there is slightly more surface area. - aaron
[2009-12-08 17:00:56] - Pierce: Well, I think it's a matter of opinion on whether or not you think laws should be supported by the populace (and if so, how much support they should have). -Paul
[2009-12-08 16:43:37] - it's not a radical suggestion, just that it doesn't follow from his argument for it. all I'm saying. - pierce
[2009-12-08 16:43:18] - well sort of. it's like 1/2 the house and 2/3 of the sentate. - mig
[2009-12-08 16:42:14] - and impeachment requires 2/3rds as well. - mig
[2009-12-08 16:41:29] - paul: also for overriding presidential vetos. - mig
[2009-12-08 16:39:22] - paul: agreed. ~a
[2009-12-08 16:38:49] - a: I mean, we use different fractions for constitutional amendments, so it's not like it's a radical suggestion. -Paul
[2009-12-08 16:37:45] - a: Sure, but I think the point is that maybe we should consider waiting to pass a law until at least more than a slight majority approves of it. Basically, maybe 1/2 isn't the best fraction to use there. -Paul
[2009-12-08 16:30:49] - paul: i think pierce's argument was: replace "1/3" with "1/2" and replace "2/3" with "1/2" and your quote still works using "common sense". ~a
[2009-12-08 16:26:13] - Pierce: Personally, I always thought it was a little odd that it basically takes a simple majority to make something illegal in this country even if 49% think the activity should be legal. -Paul
[2009-12-08 16:24:26] - Pierce: I don't think it was going for any kind of mathematical proof. I think it was an appeal to common sense. If a third of your population thinks a law is dumb, then maybe it shouldn't be a law. -Paul
[2009-12-08 16:16:45] - mig: okay, that's more like what I was getting at but I still think it's more apathy than a form of lust for power. - pierce
[2009-12-08 16:15:15] - pierce: it's not "real" power, but the perception of it does matter to politicians. They don't want to admit that the wonderful government made a ..../gasp "mistake", lest people wonder about other dumb laws that they want to keep around. - mig
[2009-12-08 16:13:14] - paul: yea thats what I was thinking of... really the govt should go through the list of dumb laws and get them revoked... ~gurkie
[2009-12-08 16:12:41] - I know you're quoting something, but the argument in your quote is insufficient to define those fractions as better or worse than, say, majority rules. - pierce
[2009-12-08 16:12:08] - paul: that's circular reasoning. it's a bad law if it can't meet that criterion, and it can't meet that criterion if it's a bad law. I could just as easily switch those fractions and the statement would make just as much sense. - pierce
[2009-12-08 16:08:19] - mig: I don't think that's the reason, at least in these cases... if it's a law that is unenforced or unenforcable anyway, then it's not actually power in any real sense. I think it's more likely that it's just a hassle to bring it up and it's less embarrassing to ignore the law than to acknowledge a dumb law that's still on the books. - pierce
[2009-12-08 16:05:52] - "Preposterous? think about it. If a bill is so poor that it cannot command 2/3rds of your consents is it not likely to make a poor law? And if a law is disliked by as many as 1/3rd is it not likely that you would be better off without it?" -Paul
[2009-12-08 16:05:09] - a: That reminds me of a line from The Moon is a Harsh Mistress, where somebody recommends that there be two houses of Congress. One house would need a 2/3rds majority to approve new laws and the other only needs a 1/3rd majority to repeal laws. -Paul
[2009-12-08 16:03:28] - mig: hmmm? relinquish what? the power to prosecute PoC outside or within the city limits after 7 pm?
~a[2009-12-08 15:52:31] - a: repealing laws means relinquishing power, which for whatever reasons, politicians are extremely relunctant to do. - mig
[2009-12-08 15:48:19] - wouldn't they remove them from the books, lest we start ignoring other laws? or lose faith in our "system"? ~a
[2009-12-08 15:41:11] - Aaron: Yeah, I think there's all sorts of zany laws on the books which aren't really enforced anymore. -Paul
[2009-12-08 15:31:03] - http://www.dumblaws.com/laws/united-states/virginia yeah, here it is - dayton - a person of color may not be oustide or within the city limits after 7 pm. oh, it's good they didn't say "black person", that would have been racially insensitive - aaron
[2009-12-08 15:29:44] - paul: oh i remember that one! also, i think black people aren't allowed on the streets after 8 pm - aaron
[2009-12-08 15:24:26] - a: yeah it's already a state issue, that's what I thought made it a good example. ok I found the best example yet: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dred_Scott_v._Sandford - vinnie
[2009-12-08 15:22:56] - I thought Dee mentioned that technically only the missionary position was allowed in VA (or something like that). -Paul
[2009-12-08 15:16:54] - gurkie: you're not talking about the sodomy law are you? - aaron
[2009-12-08 15:16:33] - gurkie: would it be so bad if utah decided to allow polygamy? regardless, they probably won't allow it. very few mormons are for polygamy. ~a
[2009-12-08 15:12:06] - no i don't remember. what did it have to do with? ~a
[2009-12-08 15:07:35] - a: didnt dee tell us about a law that is true for VA only... that isnt really enforced? I dont really want to type it but if anyone knows what I am talking about feel free to explain... ~gurkie
[2009-12-08 15:05:46] - for clarifications sake I picked Utah because I believe its the location of the used to be mormon sect that was forcing children into "spiritual marriages" but now that I think about it I think it was in TX. ~gurkie
[2009-12-08 15:04:50] - weird.... ~gurkie
[2009-12-08 15:04:37] - Texas is "14 with judicial consent or if person under 18 had previously married and divorced." ~gurkie
[2009-12-08 15:03:15] - Also apparently the legal marriage age in New Hampshire is 14 for males and 13 for females! ~gurkie
[2009-12-08 15:01:54] - a: what if Utah decides to allow polygamy? And/or make the legal marriage age 10? ~gurkie
[2009-12-08 14:29:58] - a: If I am playing Devil's Advocate, then definitely. -Paul
[2009-12-08 14:27:30] - errrr, i mean does making it illegal violate the 4th amendment. ~a
[2009-12-08 14:23:21] - paul: ok, sodomy is a good example i guess. does it violate the 4th amendment? ~a
[2009-12-08 14:19:21] - a: Well, Texas wanted to outlaw sodomy but the Supreme Court struck it down. Plenty of states have wanted to legalize marijuana to varying degrees (mostly medical) and the federal government still enforces federal drug laws. -paul
[2009-12-08 14:18:12] - vinnie: yeah the marriage thing is already a state issue, isn't it? and it does create problems, but i feel like it "fixes" more problems than it creates. ~a
[2009-12-08 14:16:45] - well i have to say that slavery is a great argument. but are there any contemporary examples of stuff that some states want to legalize but we all agree should stay illegal? or something that states want to illegalize (de-legalize?) that we all agree should stay legal? baby eating is right out because it's not something any states have actually tried to make legal. ~a
[2009-12-08 14:15:39] - a better one is how you can be legally married in one state, and then go to another state where that marriage isn't recognized. that can cause issues for people who aren't aware - vinnie
[2009-12-08 14:14:31] - another argument is the legal entanglements it causes. like if I kidnap your child in Virginia, and go eat them in Maryland were it's legal to do so. man that's one of the worst examples I've come up with - vinnie
[2009-12-08 14:10:07] - a: To be less flippant, the argument would be that if it's determined that something is wrong and should be legislated against, why allow it in other states? You don't want baby eating to be legalized in Maryland, do you? -Paul
[2009-12-08 14:08:45] - a: Slavery?
-Paul[2009-12-08 14:08:21] - stephen: and linux is clearly communism. except with far fewer people. ~a
[2009-12-08 13:58:53] - paul: play devil's advocate for me, what's the argument against state rights? ~a
[2009-12-08 13:48:47] - a: Are you saying give power back to the states? -Paul
[2009-12-08 13:34:40] - stephen: hippies - vinnie
[2009-12-08 13:32:40] - Pierce: And people also inherently distrust Microsoft, but rely on the company for most computing tasks. But if Microsoft is the government, what is Apple? - Stephen
[2009-12-08 13:26:16] - pierce: which is why you need to split up the applications into separate smaller applications (and/or plugins) that cumulatively have the same features but individually are much MUCH less bloated. now, pierce, extend your analogy back to the government! ~a
[2009-12-08 13:13:15] - I think it's a lot like feature bloat in software. everyone says they think Microsoft Word has too many features and that they only use 10% of them, but the problem is that it's not the same 10% for any two people so you'd end up alienating more people removing features than you appeal to by keeping/adding them. - pierce
[2009-12-08 12:36:59] - Stephen: Anyway, I obviously don't have any numbers or links to back me up, but it's just a feeling to me based on my interactions with people. -Paul
[2009-12-08 12:34:06] - Stephen: I equate it a bit to gay marriage. Everything seems to indicate (to me, at least), that gay marriage has popular support in America and yet when the issue comes to a vote, it seems to fail more often than pass. -Paul
[2009-12-08 12:30:19] - Stephen: I don't necessarily disagree, but I still think Americans generally want smaller government even when their programs are cut, it's just that the minority is usually a lot louder. -Paul
[2009-12-08 12:27:00] - stephen: I was under the impression that nobody liked farm subsidies except for farmers. - mig
[2009-12-08 12:25:53] - Paul: Yeah, a lot of Americans say they want smaller government and lower taxes. But then nobody wants to cut the programs that benefit them, or ones that "look good" like farm subsidies (which I hate). - Stephen
[2009-12-08 12:25:31] - Gurkie: I'm not saying that Americans really DO prefer smaller government over having their government services cut (which I think was Aaron's point), but it's what Americans tend to say they want at least. -Paul
[2009-12-08 12:24:38] - Gurkie: http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/mood_of_america/america_s_best_days "Sixty-two percent (62%) prefer a smaller government with fewer services and lower taxes, while just 25% favor a more active government with more services and higher taxes. These numbers have remained largely unchanged for several years." -Paul
[2009-12-08 12:22:51] - paul: I disagree about the majority of the country being for smaller government, or at least I am far from convinced of it... While I accept the possibility that its possible. ~gurkie
[2009-12-08 12:20:59] - Aaron: For instance, I think popular opinion was always against the bailouts and I'm not sure the stimulus ever had popular support. -Paul
[2009-12-08 12:20:12] - Aaron: Definitely true. People are all for smaller government until their program gets cut. I do wonder, however, if it's often a majority who clamors for government programs when stuff like Katrina/depressions/etc occur. -paul
[2009-12-08 12:13:41] - paul: so in other words i think the majority of the country is in favor of very conflicting ideas, and i don't think it's fair to say they're "pro libertarian" just because that's one of their conflicted viewpoints - aaron
[2009-12-08 12:12:03] - paul: i think the majority of the country is for smaller government, until something like 9-11/the great depression/katrina and then they think "hey! where was fonzi on that one", where fonzi=some government program which is apparently an order of magnitude too small - aaron
[2009-12-08 12:07:09] - and it is an annual contest - vinnie
[2009-12-08 12:06:47] - paul: at Jammin Java in Vienna. we'll definitely send out an e-mail soon about it - vinnie
[2009-12-08 12:04:10] - vamy: Maybe I missed it, but where is the Battle of the Bands? Is this some annual concert thing that everybody knows about but I don't?
-Paul[2009-12-08 12:03:14] - Stephen: I think there were a lot of libertarians involved in the tea parties, but that there were also a lot of far-right conservatives as well. I think that's why we're seeing the movement fraction a bit now, as they realize that while they agree on 90% of the main ideals (fiscal responsibility, anti-bailout and stimulus, etc), they also disagree on a lot. -Paul
[2009-12-08 12:00:39] - Stephen: So while libertarians might not be nearly as numerous as we might think, I do think the general things they tend to stand for in terms of economic policy are actually quite popular. -Paul
[2009-12-08 11:58:24] - Stephen: I think I might agree. I also think the internet tends to be skewed towards libertarians as well. However, I do think that the majority of the country is for things like smaller government, lower taxes, fiscal responsibility, etc. -Paul
[2009-12-08 11:53:26] - A: I doubt most of the tea party goers are libertarians. Most libertarians are pro-choice and support gay marriage (or at least states' right to allow abortion and gay marriage). The tea party goers were just super conservative. - Stephen
[2009-12-08 11:42:22] - stephen: then why are there so many people "for" the tea party? i guess the real question is, does glenn beck represent the tea party? does hanity? does palin? and if so, would paul/xpovos/mig vote for a candidate that had the same views as glenn beck (or whichever you picked)? ~a
[2009-12-08 11:40:26] - a: $10, 8 I think, 9. -amy
[2009-12-08 11:39:06] - vamy: how much are tickets? also what time does the show start? also what time will you be on? ~a
[2009-12-08 11:37:46] - hey guys, flickerfall has a gig at Jammin Java Battle of the Bands on January 12. Please come out and cheer for us, as the outcome of the battle is likely determined by volume of cheering. Also don't go buy tickets yet because they are giving us tickets and we have a quota to sell. so if you plan on coming, you can get them directly from us. thanks!!! -vamy
[2009-12-08 11:37:24] - Paul/Gurkie/Mig: I think we tend to overestimate how many actual libertarians there are in this country. If my hunch is right, libertarians skew younger, better-educated and whiter than the country as a whole. So while we may know a lot of them, that doesn't mean they are much of a voting bloc. - Stephen
[2009-12-08 11:33:16] - Paul: You could be right, I wouldnt be surprised if a lot of independents went with them, I also wouldnt be surprised if some dems did... But I think it would give a tilt power wise to the democratic party. I think they would be hit less hard than the republicans. ~gurkie
[2009-12-08 10:53:04] - Paul: I agree. I think people trust big government Democrats more than big government Republicans, because at least theoretically people are supposed to benefit from Democratic big government proposals. - Stephen
[2009-12-08 10:30:02] - http://blogs.usatoday.com/onpolitics/2009/12/reid-says-healthcare-bill-opponents-akin-to-those-who-resisted-ending-slavery.html /rolls eyes - mig
[2009-12-08 10:22:12] - Gurkie: Maybe I am crazy (I'm sure Pierce will jump in and let me know), but I don't necessarily think Obama and the dems did so well this past election because people were gung-ho about their platform, I think it was more because they were fed up with the war-mongering, free-spending, big government ways of the Republicans. -Paul
[2009-12-08 10:20:26] - Gurkie: I think a sizeable (and hence taken seriously) Libertarian Party that stood for fiscal responsibility and smaller government would resonate with a lot of centrists and independents right now. -Paul
[2009-12-08 10:17:48] - Gurkie: I think if such a scenario were to play out, where the social conservatives decisively took over the Republican party and the fiscal conservatives joined the Libertarian Party, you wouldn't see as much of a tilt towards the Democratic Party as you might think. -Paul
[2009-12-08 10:05:15] - gurkie: shhhh, let's keep that to ourselves - vinnie
[2009-12-08 10:04:03] - vinnie: but do you agree for the reason I do? By splitting the republican vote, the democrats would most likely have an easier win? Although I could see losing some of the borderline dems to the liberatarian party. ~gurkie
[2009-12-08 10:02:36] - paul: we actually agree! - vinnie
[2009-12-08 10:00:59] - again I have a slew of wave invites... I added some of you who i thought might like it... but I am kinda assuming I can only send it to gmail addys... Anywho if you want me to send it to you let me know. ~gurkie
[2009-12-08 09:05:23] - mig: i don't think any of russia's citizens check the message board - aaron
[2009-12-08 07:05:04] - Mig: As you should be. - Stephen
[2009-12-08 00:29:50] - - mig.
[2009-12-08 00:29:47] - germany/russia: I'm dissapointed in you both.
[2009-12-07 22:12:54] - I would love for Palin to get the presidential nomination in the 2012 election, and for that to splinter the Republicans so that the social conservatives stick around and the fiscal conservatives to join the libertarians for a legit third party. -Paul
[2009-12-07 18:41:48] - really, the balance is between support and enthusiasm, and I think that's the thing both parties are struggling with at the moment. the tea partiers (I believe) have less support when you factor in people's second choice, but more enthusiasm. - pierce
[2009-12-07 18:40:03] - which means that if you're a party official and you have to choose between backing a republican candidate or a tea party candidate, you'll end up with a larger potential voter base with the former. - pierce
[2009-12-07 18:39:05] - it's not necessarily shooting themselves in the foot, depending on the second choice. I'd be willing to wager that more of the people who identified with tea partiers in that poll would choose republican as their second choice, than republicans who would choose tea partiers. - pierce
[2009-12-07 17:18:46] - it would be nice if we broke the two party system. ~a
[2009-12-07 17:14:08] - gurkie: i haven't tried because it'll confirm my email address exists to google (though with gmail that's a non issue) and any link i click on (unless i'm running an extension that blocks the referrer field). ~a
[2009-12-07 16:54:13] - though, I have to admit, I'd much rather see the GOP self destruct completely rather than try to put on a farce and pretend they're moving toward libertarian ideas. - mig
[2009-12-07 16:53:15] - paul: this is why I'm so amazed that the republicans continue to marginalize people like Ron Paul. They're clearly shooting themselves in the foot, yet they persist. - mig
[2009-12-07 16:53:00] - also how does urban dictionary work? Can people submit words/definitions?? ~gurkie
[2009-12-07 16:48:17] - have you guys searched your gmail addy? Or any of your email addresses? I just searched mine and was routed to a site spokeo or something that allows you to search for people. It pulled up pics of me, of my family, but luckily it got my location wrong... At least... ~gurkie
[2009-12-07 16:47:12] - http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/general_politics/december_2009/tea_party_tops_gop_on_three_way_generic_ballot The title is in the url. -Paul
[2009-12-07 16:35:16] - why are you using merrill lynch's site anyways? are you getting your money out of T-bills and putting it all into waffles? tasty waffles with lots of syrup? ~a
[2009-12-07 16:12:14] - oh dammit. cleanup on aisle 3. - pierce
[2009-12-07 16:11:57] - wow, <acronym title="let me tell you what let me google that for you said">lmtywlmgtfys</acronym>ed. wicked burn. - pierce
[2009-12-07 14:47:06] - paul: you've been a BAD bad boy! ~a
[2009-12-07 14:39:49] - paul: dont be a jerk to me! ull pay when I get home. ~gurkie
[2009-12-07 14:13:37] - Gurkie: http://lmgtfy.com/?q=Merrill+Lynch+bought+out Short answer: Bank of America. -Paul
[2009-12-07 14:04:28] - pierce: I know a guy or 2 at Merrill Lynch (they were bought out though who bought them?) we can pass on the complaint if you want... ~gurkie
[2009-12-07 13:51:08] - feature request: money for developers to buy beer with. alternate feature request: beer. ~a
[2009-12-07 13:41:49] - feature request: command that lets you fix an unsigned comment from your same ip within the last minute or so. like "/sign - pierce" finds the most recent unsigned post from your IP and appends "- pierce" to it. - pierce
[2009-12-07 13:39:44] - - pierce
[2009-12-07 13:39:42] - a: but I don't wanna use opera
[2009-12-07 13:31:00] - pierce: i guess you have only one option! ~a
[2009-12-07 13:06:26] - merrill lynch's site (1) doesn't work in chrome, (2) relies on a popup that gets blocked in firefox and then the page that popped it up redirects, closing the "do you want to allow popups" tab thingy so you can't unblock it unless you have lightning-fast reflexes. and this is after a recent redesign. - pierce
[2009-12-07 12:48:00] - a: *cry* ~gurkie
[2009-12-07 12:14:25] - i made it up. ~a
[2009-12-07 11:48:00] - a: glad I could help make your horoscope come true... ~gurkie
[2009-12-07 11:46:32] - paul: yea the searches are fairly creepy... Its interesting cause there are things I feel uncomfortable searching for... But I never really had a reason... Although I have searched my name, then again I have searched a lot of peoples names! Anytime I decide to stalk someone
Kidding! ~gurkie[2009-12-07 11:44:57] - aaron: okay, I just saw that you said you knew 3 F's and didnt get along with them easily... It sounded like you were saying that you had to work at it... And I never felt like I had to work at our friendship, there are things that we dont agree on but they dont seem to matter much... ~gurkie
[2009-12-07 11:12:49] - gurkie: heh, no i don't have trouble getting along with your or vinnie
i think i was just reading too much into the MBTI stuff, i don't think there's actually a correlation on second thought - aaron[2009-12-07 11:11:07] - paul: yeah though the aol thing was like a million years ago. i decided on that day, though, that i wouldn't trust aol or any large companies with protecting my privacy. it was a simple mistake, sure, but one that makes a point. privacy is very very hard to protect. nobody can do it except you. ~a
[2009-12-07 11:02:23] - a: I'm fairly certain I've done google searches for my own name before and I'm also fairly certain embarassing searches have been done on my computer before. -Paul
[2009-12-07 11:01:41] - a: Sure, I was more interested in the AOL data that was mentioned (particularly the guy looking to kill his wife, it seems). -Paul
[2009-12-07 10:56:25] - gurkie: yes. though i do have trouble relating to your questions. also the newspaper told me that someone would have a question for me today. i just didn't realize the question would have so many question-marks. ~a
[2009-12-07 10:54:39] - Gurkie: Yeah, those are astrological signs. Lori, Faith and I are Virgos. - Stephen
[2009-12-07 10:16:26] - a: signs??? ~gurkie
[2009-12-07 10:15:58] - a: wtf? ~gurkie
[2009-12-07 10:08:41] - paul: the netflix data seems pretty benign because they only released the movie selections, right? they didn't release any other information about each user i don't think. the other two (aol & oklahoma) seem problematic at best. ~a
[2009-12-07 10:03:01] - amy ( ♒ ) aaron paul miguel ( ♓ ) andrew aba pierce ( ♈ ) dewey ( ♉ ) mel ( ♋ ) stephen faith ( ♍ ) nithin sam adrian dave ( ♎ ) gurkie vinnie ( ♏ ) travis ( ♑ ) ~a
[2009-12-07 09:56:59] - paul: I hadnt seen that... When you said internet anonymity I assumed that it was going to be about people being ruder online than IRL. ~gurkie
[2009-12-07 09:49:11] - aaron: im an F! you have trouble getting along with me? ~gurkie
[2009-12-05 13:03:23] - omfg, snow! ~a
[2009-12-04 20:41:44] - a: well i don't think anybody here uses it to decide things like that so i guess it's all good. ^_^ -amy
[2009-12-04 17:32:42] - vamy: yeah fair enough i guess. i just wouldn't want to hear about how other people use their religion/astrology to decide who they can date etc etc. ~a
[2009-12-04 17:29:29] - stephen/paul: yeah i probably should refer to the test and mbti separately. the test (imo) is meaningless. mbti in general, i'm on the fence about. the apa still hasn't backed it, and it seems extremely vague, but whatever.
~a[2009-12-04 17:16:12] - a: if you find that using christianity is helpful in gauging your decisions, then yes. if not, then don't. ^_^ -vamy
[2009-12-04 17:11:18] - http://reason.com/archives/2009/12/04/where-everybody-knows-your-nam?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+reason%2FArticles+%28Reason+Onli Maybe this is old news to some people here, but this article about anonymity online got me thinking. -Paul
[2009-12-04 16:53:10] - aaron: i picked christianity, maybe astrology would have been more P.C. ~a
[2009-12-04 16:27:54] - amy: except that these psychological tests weren't made up by the same people who made this: http://www.humanmetrics.com/infomate/InfoMatePass.asp rather they were made by people who have taken classes to become experts in the field. they have double-blind observational experimentation, discreditable experiments, disprovable theories, statisticians, etc etc. ~a
[2009-12-04 16:21:42] - vinnie: the generalizations i've made off of christianity have proved more right than wrong in my experience. does that mean i should use christianity to gauge my future decisions regarding interactions with people? ~a
[2009-12-04 15:25:20] - amy: the oatmeal has been getting pretty popular on digg lately, i think the first one i saw was the zombie invasion one but they seem pretty consistent, i wonder if they'll be like - the new XKCD for digg - aaron
[2009-12-04 15:01:41] - man this comic is almost too true to be funny: http://theoatmeal.com/comics/design_hell -amy
[2009-12-04 14:52:24] -
- pierce[2009-12-04 14:42:06] - pierce: I'm afraid it's the worst case scenario...
- vinnie[2009-12-04 14:37:34] - stephen: I'm only at 1% on that axis though... what does that mean about meeeee? - pierce
[2009-12-04 14:19:52] - Aaron: And biologists have proven that Thinkers have no heart, and Feelers no brain. - Stephen
[2009-12-04 14:16:11] - http://www.scienceagogo.com/news/19990228212951data_trunc_sys.shtml I wish I could find a better link to what I am talking about, but this is an example. -Paul
[2009-12-04 14:15:28] - aaaron: Not sure if this will affect how you guys look at MBTI, but I'm pretty sure they have done brain scans of introverts and extroverts and have found that their brains operate differently. -Paul
[2009-12-04 14:11:03] - Aaron: I'm pretty sure that the real test, i.e. the one we took in hs, was slightly more elaborate. - Stephen
[2009-12-04 14:03:59] - i don't think there's anything terribly flawed with MBTI in general, although that particular test i thought was a little silly - aaron
[2009-12-04 14:03:32] - i was going to draw an analogy between MBTI and astrology but i didn't think that would be fair, so i didn't. maybe adrian will
- aaron[2009-12-04 13:39:04] - amy's analogy is way better *high-five to amy* - vinnie
[2009-12-04 13:22:43] - diff psychologists may have different diagnoses for the same patient based on the same rules... is it depression or dysthmia? bipolar or hypomania? in the end it can be a bit of a judgment call. -amy
[2009-12-04 13:21:44] - come to think of it, there are aspects of psychology that are subjective like this. when diagnosing somebody with a disorder, the diagnostic manual will say to look for 4 out of these 11 symptoms that are typcial in ppl with, whatever, depression or schizophrenia or whatever. frequently the symptoms are subjective, such as the level of discomfort to the patient. -amy
[2009-12-04 13:00:42] - I think a good analogy is classifying people in terms of their political party. people still identify with a party even though it may not suit them 100%. you can also make useful generalizations about a political party the same way - vinnie
[2009-12-04 12:55:02] - a: yeah, I'm not sure I'd call it science, more like a way to classify behavior. it's flawed even as a classification, I'll admit, but the generalizations I've made off of it have proved more right than wrong in my experience. the way it has helped me most is in understanding the scope of human behavior - vinnie
[2009-12-04 12:49:39] - a: maybe there aren't experiments with quantifiable results in MBTI, but I believe that it can help people to understand how/why others (and themselves) think, make decisions, behave, and feel the way they do. -amy
[2009-12-04 12:28:19] - paul: and the group who was offered crickets by the attractive woman rated the crickets as tasting worse... there were a lot of similar experiments with very surprising results (well, surprising to me at the time) - aaron
[2009-12-04 12:27:34] - paul: one i remember is where two control groups ate crickets - one group was offered the cricket by an attractive woman, and the other group was offered the cricket by an ugly woman - and then they were asked to rate how much they liked the cricket - aaron
[2009-12-04 11:42:04] - a: What kind of double blind experiments? -Paul
[2009-12-04 11:30:28] - amy: i have nothing against psychology. my mom is a psychologist and i loved the psychology class i took in college. the double blind experiments i read about in school blew my mind. i do have a problem with pseudoscience (and to a lesser extent, junk science). this test seems to be the antithesis of what i understand as psychology. ~a
[2009-12-04 11:25:23] - Vinnie: I was thinking the same thing (before reading the article) except for the bit about independents. I hadn't considered what type would gravitate there. -Paul
[2009-12-04 11:08:23] - paul: interesting. if I had to make a guess without reading that article, I would have said the predominant characteristic for democrats is F, for republicans would be T or J, and for independents would be N - vinnie
[2009-12-04 10:50:44] - http://www.thembtiblog.com/2008/10/mbti-preferences-of-republicans-and.html I got to wondering if there was any kind of strong correlation between mbti and political affiliation and it turns out there is. I'm having trouble finding statistically significant data that includes more options than just Democrat and Republican, though. -Paul
[2009-12-04 10:40:26] - aaron: yeah. when I took the test at TJ I was pretty solidly T, but over the years I've drifted. I took it sometime near the end of college and came out a slight F, and that's been true the last few times I took the test (though yesterday I came out as T). I identify with characteristics of both sides a lot, I'm not sure it's useful to call myself an F - vinnie
[2009-12-04 10:27:54] - vinnie: i never thought of you as an F, has that changed since school? - aaron
[2009-12-04 10:13:47] - paul: that is a very very common T/F relationship foible. I used to do that to amy even though I am an F
amy put the merits of mbti pretty well. I actually think the tests I've taken have been pretty meaningless, but thinking about the individual traits or the full types has helped me understand myself and other people better - vinnie[2009-12-04 09:26:07] - http://www.monstersandcritics.com/news/europe/news/article_1516499.php/Germany-still-paying-World-War-I-reparations Germany is just about done paying World War I reparations. -Paul
[2009-12-04 08:55:31] - She starts getting mad at me for not sympathizing and I'm frustrated because I don't know what the point of telling me is if I'm not supposed to help fix the problem. -Paul
[2009-12-04 08:54:43] - It's funny, because I can see this F/T interaction a lot between Gurkie and I. She'll often start venting to me about something bothering her and I'll immediately start trying to figure out ways to solve the problem. -Paul
[2009-12-04 08:47:03] - Amy: Is F your most pronounced letter? I'm an F but barely, and I don't have a problem with T people or F people. But I am extremely J, and I have a hard time dealing with P people sometimes. - Stephen
[2009-12-04 08:20:20] - pierce: lol. but yeah i can definitely relate to amy's point, i likewise get frustrated a lot around Fs... typically throughout my life i've been surrounded by Ts, I think i know about three Fs and we don't get along that well - or at least, it takes effort on my part to avoid employing my usual T-like tendencies around them - aaron
[2009-12-04 00:16:05] - amy: I acknowledge that you have a problem with too many Ts in your life when you are expecting F-style interactions. As your friend, I am compelled to offer the following analysis regarding how you should solve that problem... - pierce
[2009-12-03 22:49:37] - Amy: Yeah, I think I agree with your last point. It's not really about the test or how it says you "should" be or whatever. It's about knowing yourself better and being able to recognize certain traits in yourself and others that complement (or oppose) each other. -Paul
[2009-12-03 22:40:14] - last thing, sometimes the tests can be wrong or the diff tests may give diff results. i don't actually care much about the test, it's more about what traits i see people. i'm an INFP and the desc fits me well but i also understand when i am being super j and not to expect ppl to be up to the same lvl of Jness as me -amy
[2009-12-03 22:38:27] - now i know to look for that in people, not just T s. F but all of the types, and i understand better what i can expect from people. consequently i can appreciate ppl better for who they are rather than being frustrated at what they aren't. -amy
[2009-12-03 22:37:25] - i had wanted, things would have been a lot better for me at the time. -amy
[2009-12-03 22:37:12] - of course there's nothing wrong with Ts inherently and I don't have anything against them, in fact i have more T friends than F friends and i love them all dearly ^_^ however the problem was that i was surrounded by all Ts with no nurturing F types, and i was expecting F things out of them. if i had figured out that they couldn't provide the emotional nurturing that... -am
[2009-12-03 22:36:12] - i have actually found a lot of value in MBTI bc it helped me to understand my differences with other ppl. i wish i had remembered about it in college (learned it in hs then promptly forgot about it) bc i might have been able to figure out why the friend-group i was in was so emotionally damaging... they were all Ts. -amy
[2009-12-03 22:35:27] - Ns are more interested in analyzing abstract concepts, such as types. Ss like concrete applications, I don't think MBTI is very concrete. in conclusion, I think NFs are most likely to be interested in MBTI. and who is the only NF here? Me! -amy
[2009-12-03 22:34:27] - In general, Fs are interested in people, Ts are interested in things. Fs are prob more likely to be interested in typology and i'd even say psychology in general -- it's all about how ppl think and feel. -amy
[2009-12-03 22:22:26] - And by "it", I actually mean a book I have about the MBTI called "Please Understand Me". In a lot of cases, I felt like it described me better than I could describe myself. -Paul
[2009-12-03 22:19:19] - I don't know if I feel like the test (and results) have any real meaning in terms of deciding what jobs I should try or who I should marry, but I do find it eerily accurate in terms of describing me. -Paul
[2009-12-03 21:39:37] - A/Aaron: The fact that both of you feel that way about this test probably indicates one of your letters
Amy could probably say which one. - Stephen[2009-12-03 21:08:01] - like a ouija board? hah, yeah i think we agree then. ~a
[2009-12-03 19:10:45] - so yeah i think the test is a little silly although i think if it were applied in a correct context (i.e not double blind) it could have some subjective merit, like a ouija board - aaron
[2009-12-03 19:09:41] - like "you value justice higher than mercy", earlier today i interpreted this as - people should be responsible for their actions, and if they're at fault, they should come forward. so i answered yes. rereading it, i'm interpreting it as like - is capital punishment ethical, should there be a statute of limitations even for especially heinous crimes - aaron
[2009-12-03 19:06:31] - a: i haven't found much value, this particular test had me answer "yes" and "no" to a lot of questions where i was really middle-of-the-road - or questions where my answers completely depended on context - aaron
[2009-12-03 18:49:59] - hmmm, am i the only person here that thinks the results of the test are meaningless? ~a
[2009-12-03 17:16:06] - whoa just tested again for the heck of it and got ESTP. I don't think I've ever tested E before, which means that I've gotten every letter at some point in my life
the first three letters are pretty much on the border though - vinnie[2009-12-03 16:57:48] - but who knows. computer science is supposed to be easier for Ns, but I'm an S too and I think the field definitely suits me. sometimes I think the MBTI types are too broad - vinnie
[2009-12-03 16:56:00] - aaron: I think you might be somewhat close on N/S, but I'd have called you an S. I think a big thing is that Ns tend to have a lot of long-term plans; maybe you have them but I don't know what they are!
an S is more about playing around and finding what you enjoy the most, whereas an N has a picture in their head of what they want - vinnie[2009-12-03 16:45:53] - Vinnie: Agreed. I can be really talkative around people I know, but I'm shy/standoffish around new people, and I find it draining going without alone time for more than a couple of days. - Stephen
[2009-12-03 16:42:45] - I think I guess N/S correct the most
- vinnie[2009-12-03 16:42:05] - I think I get I/E wrong the most. there's a lot of ways I/E manifests itself, and sometimes a person will be really talkative to friends, not so much to strangers, or they get their energy from other people even though they don't say much - vinnie
[2009-12-03 15:57:40] - Stephen: I guess that makes sense to me. Interesting way to think about it. -Paul
[2009-12-03 15:50:33] - wait, it's S and N... damn you oscar meyer! damn you martin riggs - aaron
[2009-12-03 15:49:31] - stephen: like maybe S people are bored when there's nothing to do, and P people are bored when there's nothing to talk about... does that sound right? is it about sensory input versus mental input or something? - aaron
[2009-12-03 15:45:34] - stephen: hmm no, i think it's right. i just want a cooler word - aaron
[2009-12-03 15:27:11] - Aaron: Maybe you got your Myers Briggs wrong. - Stephen
[2009-12-03 15:12:35] - stephen: i'm... i'm practical? hmph - aaron
[2009-12-03 15:08:42] - paul: im practical you theorize. ~gurkie
[2009-12-03 15:00:21] - Paul: If this helps, I find that S people are really practical, whereas N people love to talk about possibilities and theories. - Stephen
[2009-12-03 14:58:19] - Amy: I wonder if you feel the same way, or if there is a different one that you think is the hardest. -Paul
[2009-12-03 14:57:54] - Amy: I think the difference between S and N is the hardest for me to differentiate between when it comes to guessing what a person is. I feel like the rest of the attributes are easier to assign to people. -Paul
[2009-12-03 14:52:52] - amy: I did wiki it, jung came up with some theories on psychological types in 1921, Briggs and Myers extrapolated on those types and published their system years later, originally designed to help place women in the most comfortable and well-suited jobs during wartime. more information than we all cared to know
- vinnie[2009-12-03 14:11:00] - i think myers and briggs were contemporaries of jung? jung had like 4 basic types, N, S, T and F, and then they expanded on it. iirc. or you probably wikied it already heh -amy
[2009-12-03 14:09:44] - aaron: ohhh i see. .( -amy
[2009-12-03 14:02:52] - amy: he had to trick the cat so that the cat wouldn't follow him, it was mean! - aaron
[2009-12-03 13:58:44] - vinnie: I could wiki it if I really needed more htan a half assed explanation
~gurkie[2009-12-03 13:53:50] - gurkie: I think jung gets thrown in because he had some system that mapped to the meyers-briggs types? I actually forget, I should probably wiki it rather than giving you this half-assed explanation
- vinnie[2009-12-03 13:47:23] - stephen/gurkie: heh thanks for not finding it scary haha. myers-briggs type indicator i think. -amy
[2009-12-03 13:34:49] - and why is it called mbti? ~gurkie
prev <-> next