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[2001-05-23 09:44:00] - It's true that the cost is much greater then a movie, but that's because games generally give people more enjoyment for longer then movies do -paul
[2001-05-23 09:44:00] - And I couldn't honestly tell you how many female-oriented movies get hyped up that much, because I tend to tune out commercials for movies I don't plan on seeing - aaron
[2001-05-23 09:43:00] - I mean, you could also argue that there are plenty of popular female-oriented computer games like Barbie fashion designer... -paul
[2001-05-23 09:43:00] - I know I haven't bought any game systems for about 10 years, just because I was unsure I would be able to find enough games I would enjoy - aaron
[2001-05-23 09:42:00] - The cost is still 15-20 times that of a movie. - aaron
[2001-05-23 09:40:00] - Granted there are a lot fo female oriented movies that come out, but how many of them get hyped up like Pearl Harbor and Terminator 2 and movies like that? -paul
[2001-05-23 09:39:00] - Also, anyone with a computer can go and buy a game and play it -paul
[2001-05-23 09:39:00] - That's true, but the cost isn't as great as you might think, I mean a lot of young girls have brothers that might already have a console and lot of adults are actually getting into video games as well. -paul
[2001-05-23 09:37:00] - I think it's just that those are the ones you remember, paul. I know you think heuristics are hooey but there are plenty of popular female-oriented movies which come out during summer - aaron
[2001-05-23 09:36:00] - 1 or 2 movies they like will probably end up seeing those movies. - aaron
[2001-05-23 09:36:00] - Yeah, but you have to admit that most big summer blockbusters are aimed at the male audience -paul
[2001-05-23 09:35:00] - Plus the cost and commitment associated with becoming a video-game player is much greater than the cost of seeing a movie, so people who can only find 1 or 2 video games they like are not going to become players, while people who can find - aaron
[2001-05-23 09:34:00] - Well duh, but there are tons of women who go to the movies regularly, that's nothing new. - aaron
[2001-05-23 09:32:00] - Yup, except if one developer made a really good game for female gamers, I'm sure they could make a huge amount of money, just look at what Titanic did -paul
[2001-05-23 09:32:00] - "Nick please not so quick" and "Do It All NIght" don't talk about women being subservient to men. It has a female singer telling her boyfriend how she wants him to have sex with her, that's more the other way around I think - aaron
[2001-05-23 09:30:00] - If you actually want a good female game-player base, you either need to have female players who like the male-oriented games, or you need to develop games to fit female players, but you need to start somewhere - aaron
[2001-05-23 09:30:00] - i'm not sure if the content of the lyrics will appeal equally to both sexes. it talks about having sex with men and being subservient to men (though does not specify whether the speaker or listener is male or female)
[2001-05-23 09:29:00] - Yeah, obviously developers are going to develop games to fit the players, and then people who like the games are going to become players... It's a vicious cycle kind of thing - aaron
[2001-05-23 09:27:00] - I suppose that's true, DDR is a gender friendly in that respect, but most other games are obvious tilted towards the male demographic. It makes sense if a computer and video game expo is similarly tilted -paul
[2001-05-23 09:23:00] - http://www.salon.com/people/wire/2001/05/22/testicles/index.html
[2001-05-23 09:22:00] - Unless that is, they actually plan to have male strippers - aaron
[2001-05-23 09:21:00] - Sorry - I just wanted to cut in and add that while DDR may have explicit lyrics, that kind of content appeals equally to both sexes, while strippers at e3 will target only men (and lesbians I suppose) - aaron
[2001-05-23 09:19:00] - However, I do think they will probably eventually gear E3 more towards females as more and more females start playing computer games... hence the expo will become more PC and the strippers will be gone -paul
[2001-05-23 09:14:00] - I can see what you are saying, but I honestly think that the majority of people that go to E3 would prefer having the strippers there as opposed to getting rid of them -paul
[2001-05-23 09:07:00] - but obviously, if i really want to go to e3, i wouldn't mind paying that small fee for the majority - vinnie
[2001-05-23 09:06:00] - but why not just spend it on something I would enjoy? but obviously, i'm in the minority, because they still get strippers - vinnie
[2001-05-23 09:05:00] - I see what you're saying, but I think that (if they do charge to get in) most people wouldn't mind paying the fee -paul
[2001-05-23 09:02:00] - it's like this: either way, i am not going to ogle them or whatever. so why pay for that? however, if the companies are footing the bill, i am not going to vocally oppose it - vinnie
[2001-05-23 08:59:00] - Um.... not really sarcastic.... I just thought it was weird that you demand your strippers be free
-paul[2001-05-23 08:58:00] - Well, I can think of 3 who I am pretty sure would be for it and one who I am not sure but I think he might be... -paul
[2001-05-23 08:57:00] - was that last comment sarcastic? i'm not very good at this - vinnie
[2001-05-23 08:56:00] - but that's ok. don't attempt to list them
- vinnie[2001-05-23 08:56:00] - Really? You don't want your money being used to pay them?
-paul[2001-05-23 08:56:00] - 4 for it? I can't think of who the four would be
- vinnie[2001-05-23 08:55:00] - although the cost is probably negligable in the end - vinnie
[2001-05-23 08:55:00] - if you have to pay, i would be against - vinnie
[2001-05-23 08:53:00] - Actually, I have no idea. I kind of assume you would in order to keep the crowds down, but then again, the publishers want as much exposure as possible so.... -paul
[2001-05-23 08:52:00] - Well, I if I had to guess.... I would say it would be 4 for it, 2 not care and 4 against -paul
[2001-05-23 08:51:00] - do you have to pay to get into the e3? that would change my opinion of whether i mind strippers being there or not - vinnie
[2001-05-23 08:51:00] - I guess it all depends on who you ask though -paul
[2001-05-23 08:51:00] - i think most would not care, but then again perhaps i don't know you guys as well as i think
- vinnie[2001-05-23 08:47:00] - Well, I think if you took an anonymous polling of our group, I think there might be a good chance that the majority would either favor or not care -paul
[2001-05-23 08:46:00] - http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A62255-2001May22.html
[2001-05-23 08:45:00] - I guess so, but I still think that whenever you have an audience which is overwhelmingly male, and especially in their teenage years, you are going to have female entertainment of some sort -paul
[2001-05-23 08:44:00] - this is one of those dealies where i simply can't estimate how many people would want strippers at the e3, because i am using our group of friends as a sample - vinnie
[2001-05-23 08:43:00] - I think the scantily clad females has become a sort of tradition at E3, so an E3 without them would be like a football game without the cheerleaders -paul
[2001-05-23 08:43:00] - anyway, it's kind of pointless to argue about this. as long as there is even a small number of people at e3 that would want strippers and not too many that object (which i think more people fall into), there would be a reason to have them - vinnie
[2001-05-23 08:41:00] - that was just an example, but there has to be smaller crowds at e3 than at a wwf event - vinnie
[2001-05-23 08:40:00] - "you may be the slave of tim and tom and ant and dave". ha ha, dave
- vinnie[2001-05-23 08:40:00] - And I think you underestimate the crowds at the E3 expo.... -paul
[2001-05-23 08:39:00] - wow, those are explicit lyrics - vinnie
[2001-05-23 08:39:00] - Damn you pink.... But see, I don't think people would be all that embarrased because they are around a bunch of like-minded guys -paul
[2001-05-23 08:37:00] - i would certainly feel more comfortable looking at strippers in a crowd of 10000 than in a crowd of 10 - vinnie
[2001-05-23 08:36:00] - hooray for pink!
- vinnie[2001-05-23 08:36:00] - but how about this: i would assume there are far less people looking at the strippers at the e3 because there are less people and hence more reason to get embarrassed - vinnie
[2001-05-23 08:35:00] - Even Dance Dance Revolution (a very non-typical male game) has a song by a band called e-rotic and the lyrics are quite explicit -paul
[2001-05-23 08:34:00] - And Magic is arguably one of the most non-testosterone inducing game, in fact it is more geared towards how females like their games. Lots of thinking and not as much physical violence -paul
[2001-05-23 08:32:00] - Just look at Magic: The Gathering, the majority of players were males and and WOTC catered to that with females dressed up like Serra Angel at conventions and stuff like that -paul
[2001-05-23 08:32:00] - you are probably right about that, but non-violent video games don't make testosterone surface. at least, in my mind - vinnie
[2001-05-23 08:31:00] - The game publishers know that 99% or so of their audience is male and most of them are teenagers so they go for what attracts them -paul
[2001-05-23 08:30:00] - I think a games convention has just as much testosterone as a wrestling show, undoubtably there is a higher percentage of males at a gaming convention -paul
[2001-05-23 08:30:00] - boing: are you surprised travis will lose his bar? you had a nice long one-man conversation down there
- vinnie[2001-05-23 08:29:00] - but i guess i shouldn't be that surprised - vinnie
[2001-05-23 08:28:00] - at least not with non-violent ones - vinnie
[2001-05-23 08:27:00] - paul: still, at a gaming convention? i associate wrestling with strippers because it's all testosterone, but i don't usually put video games in the same category - vinnie
[2001-05-23 08:27:00] - I think most gaming companies don't bother trying to reach out to female gamers,, they assume the females would rather stay at home and play with their dolls
-paul[2001-05-23 08:26:00] - also, it's likely that this will alienate female gamers, in case they ever wanted to get a female gamer base - vinnie
[2001-05-23 08:25:00] - It's just the way that things work out, whenever you have an audience that consists of over 95% males, you're going to have stuff like that. -paul
[2001-05-23 08:25:00] - they shouldn't disallow strippers at the e3, but i'm surprised that there are enough people who would want that - vinnie
[2001-05-23 08:23:00] - Or for that matter, ever read an automobile magazine -paul
[2001-05-23 08:22:00] - I wonder if the author of that article has ever seen an episode of WWF wrestling -paul
[2001-05-23 02:57:00] - paul: if you're looking for more arguments regarding women in industry, try this: http://salon.com/tech/feature/2001/05/22/e3_2001/index.html - boing
[2001-05-23 02:46:00] - somebody better tell travis to hurry up and post a message, or he's going to be kicked off the statistics page pretty soon - boing
[2001-05-23 02:43:00] - of course I am being facetious, I think that anyone who would be evil would be evil regardless of video games - boing
[2001-05-23 02:39:00] - that and I have an apprentice who can wreak havok after I'm gone" - boing
[2001-05-23 02:38:00] - "hahahaha, I can install firestone tires on all of our products and kill people... then their fear of me will increase, my power will grow, and soon I will be the only god!!!... errr, CEO - boing
[2001-05-23 02:36:00] - but someone who learns that abusing power over others is cool from B&W is not someone I want to be the head of a major corporation - boing
[2001-05-23 02:34:00] - but I'm only half-kidding when I say that that is a far worse influence than, say, doom. someone who mimics doom by shooting another person is a lone psycho and can be easily dealt with by our criminal justice system - boing
[2001-05-23 02:33:00] - although the goddamn monkey keeps healing people when I poison them and creating rain to put out the fires I set... then I slap him around a bit
- boing[2001-05-23 02:32:00] - but anyway, in the midst of all that in B&W, I have a faithful and intelligent servant who is my apprentice in evil - boing
[2001-05-23 02:30:00] - yay!!! miguel's reign of ugly web-page coloring terror is finally over! - boing
[2001-05-23 02:30:00] - but with Black & White, I am poisoning and killing innocent and defenseless people, burning houses, sacrificing children on altars, and as a result the game actually looks cooler - boing
[2001-05-23 02:28:00] - I think they have the wrong target... shooting an energy weapon at a cartoonish nether-being in doom had no influence on my life... - boing
[2001-05-23 00:02:00] - He still never told me where to download that message-board monitoring program. Has he just discontinued it or something? What's going on? - aaron
[2001-05-22 23:47:00] - Oh, goodnight Adrian! -paul
[2001-05-22 23:45:00] - i think that was his way of saying goodnight - mgi
[2001-05-22 23:43:00] - Why post early tomorrow morning? -paul
[2001-05-22 23:42:00] - Fist fight if games weren't around? Ha! How could a child learn possibly to do such a complex manuever as a dragon punch without some outside influence? I mean, toward, down, down-toward? You can't just figure this stuff out. - aaron
[2001-05-22 23:40:00] - everyone go to sleep and post early tomorrow morning!
~a[2001-05-22 23:40:00] - kids will be kids. some would fist fight even when games weren't around. in fact, i'm pretty sure school used to be a great haven for fist fights. - mig
[2001-05-22 23:39:00] - eating ice cream and typing is too hard for my feeble mind. i typo too much. ~a
[2001-05-22 23:37:00] - i have never heard of games that make other game illegal. ~a
[2001-05-22 23:36:00] - He's right you know, every time I see a kid dragon punching another kid, I curse the day Street Fighter 2 was released to poison the minds of our young people -paul
[2001-05-22 23:34:00] - Anyways come on you guys, when you see two kids in a fistfight, and you see a game which portrays the same action, I think it is obvious what happened (i thinkI'm being facetious but I'm still not 100% sure what that means) - aaron
[2001-05-22 23:34:00] - i'm not so sure the risk of censorship is worth the publicity. - mig
[2001-05-22 23:27:00] - And anyways I'm all for your proposal, dancing games could use the publicity. As long as nothing gets outlawed, I think it would probably actually help DDR get popular in the states - aaron
[2001-05-22 23:23:00] - As long as it's just a game, I guess that's fine. If it were a law, perhaps I would object - aaron
[2001-05-22 23:21:00] - I propose a game to outlaw all dancing games in arcades because they teach our kids how to dance, which is an abomination upon god and the act of satan -paul
[2001-05-22 23:19:00] - Well I wouldn't play it if there were less violent alternatives *cough cough* - aaron
[2001-05-22 23:18:00] - *an ~a
[2001-05-22 23:16:00] - i can't tell if you are serious. you love that game that involves holding a automatic of some kind. ~a
[2001-05-22 23:15:00] - I have to say I support the bill. Less violent games in american arcades! - aaron
[2001-05-22 23:10:00] - and William Shatner, can't forget about him -paul
[2001-05-22 23:09:00] - yes, they gave us tom green and kith, but that doesn't mean their government isn't as retarded as ours. - mig
[2001-05-22 23:08:00] - i'm sure there's no one here that hasn't played doom. i think we're all ruthless assasins by now. - mig
[2001-05-22 22:58:00] - playing duck hunt when i was a kid has turned me into a ruthless assasin, trained to kill. - katie
[2001-05-22 22:57:00] - hehe. ~a
[2001-05-22 22:56:00] - canada brought tom green and kith! ~1
[2001-05-22 22:52:00] - they had one guy quoted saying the bill didn't go far enough, saying he wanted all "violent" games gone. - mig
[2001-05-22 22:43:00] - Thank god for the NRA
-paul[2001-05-22 22:35:00] - they'll ban video games that simulate shooting, but they won't ban guns themselves. america is fucked up. - katie
[2001-05-22 22:10:00] - http://cbc.ca/cgi-bin/templates/view.cgi?/news/2001/05/21/internet010521 canada sucks. - mig
[2001-05-22 20:40:00] - it's a damn hard word to use also - vinnie
[2001-05-22 20:39:00] - you used "palpably" correctly, pierce
- vinnie[2001-05-22 20:37:00] - They are the government. They make the rules.
-paul[2001-05-22 19:04:00] - who the fuck do they think they are that they can tell game makers how to make their own fucking games?? - mig
[2001-05-22 19:03:00] - that makes these kinds of things have gone too far." - mig
[2001-05-22 19:03:00] - here's one scary quote: "We hope these type of games disappear from the landscape," Lawlor said. "People
[2001-05-22 18:59:00] - goddammit why does connecticut have to be so fucking hard to spell? - mig
[2001-05-22 18:58:00] - http://www.wvit.com/cgi-bin/gx.cgi/AppLogic+FTContentServer?pagename=FutureTense/Apps/Xcelerate/Render&c=NBCArticle&cid=NBCNSIWAUMC&preview=true and freedom of speech die in coneticut. - mig
[2001-05-22 17:57:00] - Ah well, I guess everybody is gone
I'll have to check back in later -paul[2001-05-22 17:50:00] - Sorry I'm late, was stuck in traffic on the way back from work. So, harrassment at work and teacher discrimination are some reasons why women are forced into these roles? -paul
[2001-05-22 17:29:00] - later, that is - boing
[2001-05-22 17:28:00] - now I am off to chili's to eat meat like the stereotypical male I am
talk to you all late - boing[2001-05-22 17:28:00] - and vinnie, I hope I used the word "palpably" correctly in a sentence
- boing[2001-05-22 17:24:00] - although I think my "hariy armpits" comment fulfilled the butch part - boing
[2001-05-22 17:23:00] - yes, of course. how could I forget?
- boing[2001-05-22 17:22:00] - just as I am ashamed at the stereotype of heterosexual men as people who hoot every time a woman walks by in a semi-revealing outfit - boing
[2001-05-22 17:22:00] - you forgot the butch lesbian part, pierce.
- aba[2001-05-22 17:21:00] - I'm sure there are many gay men who are ashamed at the descent into the ridiculous that others encourage in the name of "gay pride" - boing
[2001-05-22 17:20:00] - the average homosexual probably as around the same ability as a heterosexual to be a stable member of society... but we're so oversaturated with images of the flamingly gay that the stereotype starts to model the latter - boing
[2001-05-22 17:18:00] - that seems to be a recurring problem with the way groups are thought of in society. another good example is the onion article that vinnie had in his profile for a while - boing
[2001-05-22 17:17:00] - which, of course, is an inaccurate portrayal of the average feminist - boing
[2001-05-22 17:16:00] - to a caricature of crazy women with hairy armpits who think men are the root of all society's problems - boing
[2001-05-22 17:16:00] - obviously not all feminists are irrational, but unfortunately the concept of a feminist has changed from representing equal opportunities and status for women... - boing
[2001-05-22 17:11:00] - hehe, ok, pierce. i was just trying to get my point out to paul because he seems to think that all people who are feminists are irrational.
- aba[2001-05-22 17:10:00] - studies have indicated that previously teachers used to subconsciously call on more boys to answer math questions and showered more praise on them than girls. it's not so bad now, but it still occurs in backwater places. - aba
[2001-05-22 17:10:00] - I was referring to my comment, not aparna's - boing
[2001-05-22 17:09:00] - which is to an extent an unfair generalization, but holds true in most cases - boing
[2001-05-22 17:09:00] - you can also point back to earlier generations where girls were discouraged from participating in math, science and "woodshop"-type classes past their requirements. - aba
[2001-05-22 17:09:00] - I agree with that... especially in jobs that require manual labor, the testosterone that hangs palpably in the air turns men into pigs - boing
[2001-05-22 17:08:00] - in many cases, the relevant authority figures are in on the harrassment too which is terrible. - aba
[2001-05-22 17:07:00] - the police and military are both examples of this. a lot of sexual harrasment and verbal abuse occurs and the women are discouraged from taking these problems to authority figures. - aba
[2001-05-22 17:06:00] - paul: by way of feminist reasoning - a lot of women who are in male dominated industries get harrassed a lot more than men in female dominated industries. - aba
[2001-05-22 17:05:00] - but you can't blame them too much... flawed studies and statistics tell them that their methods are correct... but all those studies are done by people who have that mindset framed already - boing
[2001-05-22 17:03:00] - although that is a very blunt was to say it, I agree. the common misconceptions about the causes of columbine are making people take actions that are, in fact, the real causes - boing
[2001-05-22 17:01:00] - http://www.observers.net/gamera2/gamerastory.html - mgi
[2001-05-22 16:56:00] - these people are just begging for another columbine. - mig
[2001-05-22 16:54:00] - it seems very odd how these parents thinkt their kids are going to learn responsibility if they feel they have to monitor them 24-7. - mig
[2001-05-22 16:51:00] - it's just that these quick fix solutions aren't really solutions or end up making the situation even worse. - mig
[2001-05-22 16:51:00] - ot
[2001-05-22 16:51:00] - unfortunately, we live in a society that believes in "qucik-fix" solutions. that's why we have shit like this happening all the time. - mig
[2001-05-22 16:47:00] - "whoa... I can't believe that worked!" - boing
[2001-05-22 16:47:00] - hahahahahah... "oh, here you go. I believe everything's in order" - boing
[2001-05-22 16:45:00] - "Uh, wallet inspector..." - aaron
[2001-05-22 16:44:00] - good point, aaron... what happens if you aren't able to lie until you're 18, and suddenly you're put out into the real world with people whose parents were not as watchful? - boing
[2001-05-22 16:43:00] - and I'm sure that some parents' solution to a missed assignment would be punishment along the lines of child abuse - boing
[2001-05-22 16:43:00] - I can't begin to imagine how messed up I would be, if I was raised to the age of 16 without being given the opportunity to lie - aaron
[2001-05-22 16:43:00] - Yeah, I think maybe kids need to learn about the importance of things like a good diet and good grades, but I also think they need to learn about healthy relationships, and trust... - aaron
[2001-05-22 16:42:00] - the other problem is that parents have no context for the information they're getting... the software might show that a student missed a homework, but not show that it was an optional assignment and most of the class didn't do it - boing
[2001-05-22 16:40:00] - yeah, if it's okay for the parents in the first place - boing
[2001-05-22 16:39:00] - I for one would want to know if my mom was some psycho nutcase who was calculating how many packages of milk I was drinking weekly and such - aaron
[2001-05-22 16:38:00] - I think if it's okay for the parents to monitor what the kids are doing at school, it should also be okay for the kids to monitor whether their parents are monitoring them - aaron
[2001-05-22 16:36:00] - thank you too, aaron
- boing[2001-05-22 16:34:00] - what we'll have to see after that will be whether we discontinue these practices in the younger ages, or whether we decide that it's time for adults to be constantly supervised - boing
[2001-05-22 16:33:00] - I, too was impressed by your metaphor, Pierce! I am bad at metaphors but I try as well - aaron
[2001-05-22 16:32:00] - I think what we'll see as a result of these systems being put into place will be higher grades in K12 education, and then heightened crime rates in the age group right above it... these kids will have no internal moral code to stop them - boing
[2001-05-22 16:29:00] - except now we're doing that to kids, who aren't inherently social deviants - boing
[2001-05-22 16:28:00] - but in any event, what happens to prisoners is that as soon as they leave an environment where their every move is monitored, they feel like they can get away with anything, and simply repeat the behaviors that led to their incarceration - boing
[2001-05-22 16:26:00] - dammit. aporter's being so slow that it didn't work a bunch of times and that must have gone through twice - boing
[2001-05-22 16:25:00] - I think controlling kids all the time offers only superficial benefits... it's the same thing with the prison system. Criminals who are already social deviants become accustomed to an environment that controls them... - boing
[2001-05-22 16:25:00] - I think controlling kids all the time offers only superficial benefits... it's the same thing with the prison system. Criminals who are already social deviants become accustomed to an environment that controls them... - boing
[2001-05-22 16:06:00] - someone pointed out on slashdot a really scary quote from that article: 'i think the more we can control our kids, the better off in the long run they'll be.' - vinnie
[2001-05-22 16:04:00] - http://my.aol.com/news/news_story.psp?type=1&cat=0100&id=0105220240181754
[2001-05-22 16:04:00] - thanks, vinnie, I try
- boing[2001-05-22 16:04:00] - by the way, my dad and my brother have the same name - boing
[2001-05-22 16:00:00] - boing: good analogy
- vinnie[2001-05-22 15:59:00] - a: you never asked me if my dad and my brother had the same name
- boing[2001-05-22 15:59:00] - that's like making the president wear a target on his back, and saying it's so the secret service agents can see him more easily in case of an emergency - boing
[2001-05-22 15:58:00] - and the argument that it's for their protection is ridiculous... - boing
[2001-05-22 15:57:00] - especially when the religious leaders are so fundamentalist that they are inflexible to the beliefs of others - boing
[2001-05-22 15:56:00] - yeah... that's just another example of what can go wrong when you let religion run politics when there are citizens with different religious beliefs - boing
[2001-05-22 15:22:00] - yeah, somehow i don't buy the "we're protecting their religious freedom" argument - vinnie
[2001-05-22 15:10:00] - If the muslims honestly want to distinguish themselves from non-muslims, let them wear their own religious symbol. But don't force strangers to wear religious symbols if they don't want to, that's silly - aaron
[2001-05-22 14:45:00] - dave: You dared to infer that women are incapable of doing something that men can do -paul
[2001-05-22 14:40:00] - what's this about being a sexist pig? -dave
[2001-05-22 14:14:00] - re: hindu symbol: i can't believe what they've done over there - vinnie
[2001-05-22 13:58:00] - http://washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/world/A59598-2001May22.html
[2001-05-22 13:57:00] - dave: sexist pig
-paul[2001-05-22 13:57:00] - and you know what's odd? most normal hair stylists are female. but really expensive professional stylists seem to be male. at least that's what it seems to me -dave
[2001-05-22 13:55:00] - and i think it seems pretty logical that work that requires a lot of manual labor be mostly guys. females don't usually have enough strength to do them -dave
[2001-05-22 13:54:00] - construction workers too. although i did see two females driving dump trucks the other day. i was surprised -dave
[2001-05-22 13:53:00] - most manual labor jobs are mostly male. like plumbers who have to undo pipes and such -dave
[2001-05-22 13:51:00] - Adrian, where is this message board monitoring program? I can't find it anymore - aaron
[2001-05-22 13:46:00] - Argh, you people aren't helping at all. Stop being so logical and think like a feminist! I need illogical arguments to refute
-paul[2001-05-22 13:41:00] - i'm all for more female engineers, btw
- vinnie[2001-05-22 13:41:00] - like i said, i think it's just the fact that currently women make up a greater percentage of secretaries and hair stylists than they do of plumbers - vinnie
[2001-05-22 13:39:00] - you would think so, but i think the mentality is (or was) that they couldn't do the job as well as men and would only be a distraction - vinnie
[2001-05-22 13:35:00] - I would think male plumbers would want to have females plumbers around
-paul[2001-05-22 13:35:00] - Hmmmm, let me rephrase it then. "In what ways does society influence women to take certain roles, such as home-maker or secretary or hair stylist and not to take roles such as engineer or politician or plumber?" -paul"
[2001-05-22 13:33:00] - though i'm sure there are male plumbers that turn down females for jobs just because they are female - vinnie
[2001-05-22 13:32:00] - it's more like: there are currently no female plumbers. do you want to be the only one? - vinnie
[2001-05-22 13:31:00] - paul: society doesn't try in the sense of wanting to keep women out of plumbing - vinnie
[2001-05-22 13:26:00] - a: Research
-paul[2001-05-22 13:26:00] - dave: I was kind of hoping more for reasons and not just the result. Like, why are there no female plumbers? how does society try to keep women out of the profession? -paul
[2001-05-22 13:21:00] - mig: i may have fixed yucky yucky bug. ~a
[2001-05-22 13:18:00] - i've actually never seen one
- vinnie[2001-05-22 13:17:00] - i've seen one female construction worker ever. ~a
[2001-05-22 13:17:00] - in fact, i was reading this poorly thought out paper the other day demanding female plumbers and blaming men for the lack of them - vinnie
[2001-05-22 13:15:00] - i'm not sure if people directly tell women not to take jobs as construction workers, plumbers, etc. as much as it is a societal mentality that thinks these kind of jobs have to be done by men - vinnie
[2001-05-22 13:14:00] - so work from there - vinnie
[2001-05-22 13:12:00] - paul: why? ~a
[2001-05-22 13:11:00] - paul: almost all construction, plumbing, and those kinds of jobs are hard industries for women to get into - vinnie
[2001-05-22 13:11:00] - pierce, i just sent your dad an email. he just called me about it. you never told me your father and brother had the same name
~a[2001-05-22 13:01:00] - Ok, computer games geared towards guys. That's good, although you don't have to limit it to just computers. I am talking about how society oppresses women in general, not just the comnputer industry -paul
[2001-05-22 12:54:00] - paul: I think computer games are geared towards guys. that's one thing that gets them into computers -dave
[2001-05-22 12:53:00] - dave: I want examples of how society is forcing women into these roles. And that sounds fine, I'll get in touch with you tonight about it if I can -paul
[2001-05-22 11:53:00] - and best i can do to your house (without taking off work) is about 5:30 - 5:45 depending on traffic. i'd have to pick up food on the way there too -dave
[2001-05-22 11:52:00] - you want to know how they are? or examples of roles they're given? -dave
[2001-05-22 11:51:00] - D'oh, I'm off to lunch now, but I expect there to be some good points here when I get back. -paul
[2001-05-22 11:45:00] - You know, like being given "home-maker" barbie as children or being told that computers are for guys only? -paul
[2001-05-22 11:44:00] - I have a favor to ask you all, can anybody give me some good examples of how women are sterotyped into specific roles by society? -paul
[2001-05-22 10:32:00] - Heh yes, thanks vinnie
wouldn't want to spoil the first 5 minutes of the movie for people, would we. - aaron[2001-05-22 10:29:00] - dave: Get to my house as early as you can. I want to fit in two tapes of Trigun if possible before 8:00 (when the Voyager Series Finale starts). Are you going to be able to eat before getting to my house? -paul
[2001-05-22 10:29:00] - mig: you are right! that is a bug. a yucky yucky bug.
. . . i don't know if i'll have time to fix it now. maybe at lunch. ~a[2001-05-22 10:25:00] - paul: sounds good to me. be there at 6? -dave
[2001-05-22 10:24:00] - vinnie: ahhh, i see = ) -dave
[2001-05-22 10:15:00] - dave: i figured out why i have so many grammatical errors when posting to this board. the bar isn't long enough for me to proofread what i write - vinnie
[2001-05-22 10:14:00] - hey adrian, there's a bug in one of the message boards, it has more than 1 post, but it keeps saying 1 post. - mig
[2001-05-22 10:13:00] - Dave: Is this wednesday evening and thursday evening ok for you? -paul
[2001-05-22 10:06:00] - so that people it won't spoil things eh? -dave
[2001-05-22 09:54:00] - i'll tell you about it sometime in private so that people it won't spoil things - vinnie
[2001-05-22 09:54:00] - aaron: something extremely important happens in the first five minutes, and i'm not joking - vinnie
[2001-05-22 09:33:00] - I know, and but the important thing is that Miguel is beating you all
-paul[2001-05-22 09:27:00] - I saw Momento on Sunday though, and that was good. They were having projector problems so I missed the first 5-10 minutes. Did anything important happen? - aaron
[2001-05-22 09:23:00] - he's beating you ~a
[2001-05-22 09:04:00] - Imagine, a pink border with pink links.... I shudder to think of it -paul
[2001-05-22 08:45:00] - vinnie: If you ever get to the top of the bar it would be an abomination upon this message board -paul
[2001-05-22 08:39:00] - travis: did you read that the person who directed my neighbors the yamadas also directed grave of the fireflies? - vinnie
[2001-05-22 08:34:00] - i can't wait to get to the top so that everything will be in glorious pink
- vinnie[2001-05-22 08:30:00] - cheney dropped out of yale for those who didn't know - vinnie
[2001-05-22 08:29:00] - man, i am so bad at typos
- vinnie[2001-05-22 08:29:00] - in the post, i red an even funnier quote about from that speech: "if you graduate from yale, you can be president. if you drop out of yale, you can only be vice president."
- vinnie[2001-05-22 08:26:00] - i like the new color, adrian
- vinnie[2001-05-22 08:22:00] - incidentally, they were much more humorous on the radio in audio -dave
[2001-05-22 08:21:00] - and another was "for those of you who have gotten honorary degrees, i salute you. for those of you who have gotten c's, well, you can still be the president of the united states" -dave
[2001-05-22 08:20:00] - I guess he was at yale giving some speech and he was like "I think the world should know that everything i know about the english language, i learned here at yale" -dave
[2001-05-22 08:19:00] - someone on the radio this morning was playing clips of Bush making funny side comments about himself -dave
[2001-05-21 23:39:00] - Wow, that's a very impressive webpage Adrian -paul
[2001-05-21 23:01:00] - http://aparna.dhs.org/ has message boards!
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