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[2001-06-20 18:02:00] - adrian posted a link earlier about languages dying out. that is a pretty interesting topic. while i was in senegal, we discussed the problem. example, senegal is the size north dakota. the official state language is french... -jdb
[2001-06-20 17:59:00] - forum? i need more specifics. ~a
[2001-06-20 17:55:00] - a: i've installed bother redhat 7.1 and mandrake 8.0 within the last month. i think mandrake certainly has an edge on the competition at this point. -jdb
[2001-06-20 17:54:00] - paul: i've found zope to be the absolute easiest around, but you don't really have to even program to use the basic functionality of it. php is very cool. -jdb
[2001-06-20 17:46:00] - a: What would be the best programming language to learn to program a simple forum-type web-page thing? -paul
[2001-06-20 16:39:00] - php is already installed. i have been wanting to go to linux for a long time. ~a
[2001-06-20 16:38:00] - ok. i'll make the decision on redhat or mandrake soon. ~a
[2001-06-20 16:36:00] - anyway, don't feel like you have to install it or anything - vinnie
[2001-06-20 16:35:00] - a: i wasn't planning on ftping anything to your server to test, but i may do that if you install linux for two reasons. one, i don't know what i need to do to get php working on my work comp, two, i'm not sure if i want to install stuff here - vinnie
[2001-06-20 16:22:00] - i'm not sure if i'd want to void the warranty on my sister's gba. - mig
[2001-06-20 16:14:00] - ws ftp let's you turn it off pretty easily, i'm not sure how to do it on cuteftp, but i'm sure you can. - mig
[2001-06-20 15:18:00] - paul: i don't know. invite whoever. @@@/?a=7 ~a
[2001-06-20 15:12:00] - in the client that comes with win2000, passive mode is not the default. in the client that comes with linux, you type "passive" to toggle passive mode (make sure it says "passive mode off."). i'll find out how to turn passsive mode off of cuteftp.
[2001-06-20 15:11:00] - aaron: Do you know if there are any plans to release Tetris Attack or Puyo Puyo on Gameboy Advance? -paul
[2001-06-20 15:10:00] - everybody - if you are having trouble ftping, some ftp cleints will try to go into passive mode. you need to find out how to turn passive mode off. ~a
[2001-06-20 15:09:00] - mig: yes. that is exactly what i found out too. aaron, if you are there, this is a problem you were having too. because i am behind a router, i don't have a real ip, so passive mode wouldn't work. ~a
[2001-06-20 15:03:00] - mig: http://pocket.ign.com/news/35946.html You were complaining about Castlevania being dark... -paul
[2001-06-20 15:01:00] - "company and university officials announcing the November 1998 deal at a press conference had to duck to avoid being hit by a pie." Is this a metaphor of some sort? - aaron
[2001-06-20 14:50:00] - http://www.csmonitor.com/durable/2001/06/19/fp11s1-csm.shtml hmmm... not sure what to make of this... - mig
[2001-06-20 14:31:00] - travis: Ok, will do, thanks -paul
[2001-06-20 14:27:00] - paul: well, tell me if i need to bring my dvd player or not, and if the time change works for people, i'll probably be on aim tonight if i remember to get on - travis
[2001-06-20 14:25:00] - travis: Ideally we would use your DVDs and there would be a DVD player to use. I'm open to suggestions -paul
[2001-06-20 14:25:00] - http://news.cnet.com/news/0-1003-200-6322264.html?tag=tp_pr more open source lies. this time from the big man himself. - mig
[2001-06-20 14:23:00] - http://www.redhat.com/about/presscenter/2001/press_Q12002.html horray! - mig
[2001-06-20 14:22:00] - paul: first half (eps 1-14) is a little under 6 hours, takes us to 7:30, which should be okay since i don't have to be to work on sunday until 8am, i can always come and just leave stuff early (are we using my DVDs? who's player we using?) - travis
[2001-06-20 14:19:00] - hey adrian i found out the problem i had with ftp. apparently it doesn't seem to like passive mode. - mig
[2001-06-20 14:19:00] - a: Alrighty then, can you think of anybody else who would want to come? -paul
[2001-06-20 14:18:00] - travis: Would starting at 1:30 leave enough time for the first half of Escaflowne? -paul
[2001-06-20 14:14:00] - vinnie, re your journal; php is installed on palpable.dhs.org but you can't make php programs live. if and when i install linux, you will be able to make php scripts live on your own. ~a
[2001-06-20 14:08:00] - paul: well, i'd get off work at 12 (hopefully, should be pretty safe), so i'd get to my house around 12:30-12:45, if good time, shower, get to your house probably around 1:30 or so... - travis
[2001-06-20 14:03:00] - paul: if aparna says yes then yes else no. ~a
[2001-06-20 13:59:00] - travis: How much later then 12:00 could you make it? -paul
[2001-06-20 13:22:00] - paul: i got problems for watching escaflowne on satuday like we planned, i gotta work on saturday 4am-noon, then sunday from 8am-4pm, so let me know what ya wanna do, i could still probably make it saturday, just a little later than 12 - travis
[2001-06-20 13:17:00] - if anything that would be something they would use as an intro before they would play. - mig
[2001-06-20 13:05:00] - maybe if we're lucky they'll 'play' fitter happier
- vinnie[2001-06-20 13:05:00] - maybe if we're lucky play'll 'play' fitter happier
- vinnie[2001-06-20 12:31:00] - a: Are you interested in going to King's Dominion on Sunday? -paul
[2001-06-20 12:08:00] - whoever posted that needs to talk to pierce. i really don't know anything about that trip or who is going on it. ~a
[2001-06-20 12:00:00] - radiohead is playing here? is it just them? - mig
[2001-06-20 11:57:00] - But Lisa can't go saturday, or something... Right? SO I mean it's not like good news for our trip, if they can't go friday... is it?
[2001-06-20 11:50:00] - pierce said he might not go friday if lighning ~a
[2001-06-20 11:49:00] - It's like the intros and such on the TMBG double-album "Then". You listen to them once or twice, you're like "Yeah, okay, that was interesting" and then you have to skip over them every time you listen to the album, and they become a nuisance - aaron
[2001-06-20 11:47:00] - I can just picture at a Radiohead concert, there's one guy on stage, talking slowly into a microphone... he says "On the ants", plays a wind-chime type instrument, the audience cheers, "Woo! Yeaaaaah!" ha ha ha. - aaron
[2001-06-20 11:45:00] - I thought fitter happier was pretty lame. They have like one instrument in the song, when he says "boiling water on the ants". That's like, the high point of the song. It's mega-lame. - aaron
[2001-06-20 11:34:00] - paul's idea of eating outside the park is fine with me. better food at better prices. but i guess it's not paul's idea. we did it last summer when we went - vinnie
[2001-06-20 11:31:00] - when we go again(i don't think i'll be able to go on friday or sunday), i would also request that we eat outside the park for meals? i kind of starting to dislike spending $8-10 a meal. - mig
[2001-06-20 11:27:00] - yeah, pretty pointless. the alienation aspect is interesting, but they could've made it into an actual song. you actually like that 'song?'
- vinnie[2001-06-20 11:22:00] - cry. i like Fitter Happier. pointless? ~a
[2001-06-20 11:17:00] - xpovos: you gave 'o brother where art thou' a 4.5? totally figures
- vinnie[2001-06-20 11:10:00] - there is one person left in the world who can speak udihe? that's tragi-comical. although i guess you can always teach someone else the language - vinnie
[2001-06-20 11:08:00] - vinnie: Check your email btw, I sent you something about doing something this weekend -paul
[2001-06-20 11:08:00] - im gonna go find out if they have any work for me to do. talk to you all later. - aba
[2001-06-20 11:08:00] - vinnie: You don't need to hear my opinion about it then
-paul[2001-06-20 11:06:00] - i already read paul's journal about the movie - vinnie
[2001-06-20 11:05:00] - btw, how was evolution for those who saw it? - vinnie
[2001-06-20 11:05:00] - paul: not really interested. i'm only planning on going one or two more times this summer - vinnie
[2001-06-20 11:04:00] - We could leave around 6:00 to make sure everybody got home on time and it would also mean we wouldn't have to eat dinner in the park (hence a lot cheaper) -paul
[2001-06-20 11:02:00] - "what time would you have to be back?" not "what time would you have to leave?"
- aba[2001-06-20 11:00:00] - http://www.cnn.com/2001/US/06/18/disappearing.languages.ap/index.html languages are dying
[2001-06-20 10:58:00] - aparna, if we leave at 8, you probably won't be in bed in 3 hours. it takes an hour or two just to get home. ~a
[2001-06-20 10:44:00] - aaron: Oh, ok. Vinnie! Are you interested in going to King's Dominion this upcoming Sunday? -paul
[2001-06-20 10:44:00] - http://www.cnn.com/2001/HEALTH/diet.fitness/06/19/fruits.veggies/story.produce.man.jpg
[2001-06-20 10:42:00] - I have no way of contacting him during the work day, except through this message board - aaron
[2001-06-20 10:41:00] - aaron: Did you check with vinnie to see if he would be interested? -paul
[2001-06-20 10:40:00] - http://www.cnn.com/2001/US/06/20/teen.drivers/index.html 6 am??? i know tons of teenagers have morning practices before 6 am and this regulation would really screw them over
[2001-06-20 10:40:00] - It all depends on how many people would be interested in going I guess. If there aren't enough people, it probably wouldn't be worth planning a trip -paul
[2001-06-20 10:38:00] - Of course, I'm interested... - aaron
[2001-06-20 10:38:00] - aba: *Shrug* I think a lot of other people have to work on Monday also so if we did go we would probably leave earlier. -paul
[2001-06-20 10:36:00] - i dunno, like 8ish? enough time to be able to get my clothes ironed, shower, etc and go to bed by 11. - aba
[2001-06-20 10:30:00] - aba: What time would you have to be back? -paul
[2001-06-20 10:25:00] - i have to work on monday, so probably not for me. unless that is we plan to come home early or something. - aba
[2001-06-20 10:24:00] - http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A20502-2001Jun19.html
[2001-06-20 10:18:00] - Requiem turned out to be nearly impossible to review. Figures. -- Xpovos
[2001-06-20 10:06:00] - Would anybody here be interested in going to King's Dominion this upcoming Sunday? -paul
[2001-06-20 10:02:00] - http://www.salon.com/tech/wire/2001/06/19/co2/index.html
[2001-06-20 09:56:00] - vinnie: Yep. Reviewed on site. Adding Requiem for a Dream now. -- Xpovos
[2001-06-20 09:54:00] - xpovos: you saw tomb raider? - vinnie
[2001-06-20 09:49:00] - It's a mediocre song for a mediocre movie... -- Xpovos
[2001-06-20 09:47:00] - who knows maybe i'll also grow to like elevation but i doubt it - vinnie
[2001-06-20 09:47:00] - 90% of all u2 songs sound the same
[2001-06-20 09:47:00] - yeah, we talked about walk on, and how we both didn't like it at first but started liking it - vinnie
[2001-06-20 09:44:00] - I never spoke about elevation. As for it's merits as a song, it's a U2 song. Not even one of their better ones. I can stand it, but see no reason to go out of my way to hear it. -- Xpovos
[2001-06-20 09:42:00] - xpovos: methinks most people will buy the xpansion -dave
[2001-06-20 09:41:00] - vinnie: did we talk about elevation before? or was it a different song? maybe walk on? -dave
[2001-06-20 09:40:00] - I havn't upgraded, probably won't upgrade, 1.04 is good enough for me until the expansion is for sale, I see no reason to debilitate my chars until I can get the good stuff for them too. I'll still buy the Expansion likely -- Xpovos
[2001-06-20 09:38:00] - dave: i think i actually found a new u2 single i dislike (as opposed to think i dislike and turn out to like). i don't like elevation - vinnie
[2001-06-20 09:38:00] - xpovos: basically, they just implemented a lot of the negatives of the xpansion. to get the positives...you gotta buy it -dave
[2001-06-20 09:37:00] - Dave: Then they need to change the interface so you can cast more than one spell type easily. Hotkeys are good, but I've only got two mouse buttons. Never liked that interface anyway... -- Xpovos
[2001-06-20 09:32:00] - The increase in damage is great (all except in firewall) but the loss of ability to stack spells like meteor and blizzard on the whole decreases their effectiveness, even if you cast less mana. Also the nerfing of SF is not cool at all. -- Xpovos
[2001-06-20 09:31:00] - xpovos: i think what they are going for though is a variety of spells. they would rather have people casting 2-3 different spells at once rather than just using one all the time -dave
[2001-06-20 09:30:00] - xpovos: yeah. supposedly the increase in damage makes up for it. if it really does, than you come out better mana-wise -dave
[2001-06-20 09:25:00] - I don't really mind the immunities too much, it's the casting timers that irk me. It's as if they upped the casting time of half of a sorc's spells by 100-300% -- Xpovos
[2001-06-20 09:18:00] - Which means thinly spread points, or teaming up. Naturally Blizzard wants the teaming up, and many believe that's been their plot all along, they want Diablo to be nothing but a multi-player game. -- Xpovos
[2001-06-20 09:16:00] - dewey: it just means that sorceresses now have to branch into all three trees instead of just one, or at most two -dave
[2001-06-20 09:15:00] - dewey: but immunities can really suck for sorceresses - a unique could be immune from two trees 0dave
[2001-06-20 09:09:00] - I knew there was a (were many) reasons I didn't use battle.net all that much. The multiplayer aspect only interested me slightly -- Xpovos
[2001-06-20 09:08:00] - paul: immunities can be good. requires a different strategy to attack different monsters. also makes the game more meaningful to have diverse groups. - dewey
[2001-06-20 09:07:00] - hmmmm. the img src tag does work. see: <img src="###/pics/download/38.gif"> . . . it is just the jpg that didn't work. ~a
[2001-06-20 09:07:00] - katie: what is a hell drop? - dewey
[2001-06-20 09:05:00] - does anyone know what cvs php is and how i can get it? i know it is some sort of development protocol but don't know any of the specifics on how to use the functions under development. ~a
[2001-06-20 09:00:00] - php has built in jpg support (so i don't have to write the code on my own) but this message board is thousands of lines long and won't be ported to php any time soon. ~a
[2001-06-20 09:00:00] - i don't have jpg support
i couldn't find any specs that were easy to understand and were up to date. ~a[2001-06-20 08:56:00] - Paul: yes. -- Xpovos
[2001-06-20 08:53:00] - Although I will admit that these immunity things sound really bad. Can some things be immune to physical damage? -paul
[2001-06-20 08:52:00] - only gifs that pass certain regulations get automatically posted to the board and the img src tag doesnt work
[2001-06-20 08:41:00] - Hmm, Chaos Sanctuary is down.... -- Xpovos
[2001-06-20 08:40:00] - "These improvements were also incorporated to prolong the life of the product for our players without requiring the purchase of Diablo® II: Lord of Destruction TM" I think they should be commended for still working on the original -paul
[2001-06-20 08:38:00] - Any words on the latest law-suit against Wal-Mart? -- Xpovos
[2001-06-20 08:38:00] - katie: I was looking over the changes and it looks like there is a balance between positives they added and negatives and nothing looks like it was hugely altered as to make it a previously good strategy unusable -paul
[2001-06-20 08:37:00] - katie: While I agree that sometimes Blizzard's patches are really annoying because they screw with the fundamentals of the game, the latest Diablo patch doesn't look all that bad -paul
[2001-06-20 08:26:00] - the only reason i boycott them is that i don't feel like it's ethical for me to give my money to a company who pulls this kind of crap. - katie
[2001-06-20 08:24:00] - i'm not sure if a boycott will make a difference, but i know that the sheer number of complaints (they filled over 20 pages of forum space last night with complaints and boycott threats) should say something to blizzard. - katie
[2001-06-20 08:22:00] - http://www.snowday.org/diablo2/broken001.jpg - katie
[2001-06-20 08:19:00] - needless to say, a year's worth of characters i enjoyed playing have been rendered totally unplayable. not only that, but there are serious bugs/quirks - namely, the drop system - katie
[2001-06-20 08:17:00] - it downloads as soon as you try to get onto the realms - katie
[2001-06-20 08:17:00] - <img src=http://aporter.dhs.org/pics/aaron/aquarium/dolphin%20pokes%20its%20head%20out%20of%20the%20water.jpg>
[2001-06-20 08:16:00] - damn, what happened to images! - dewey
[2001-06-20 08:16:00] - http://aporter.dhs.org/pics/aaron/aquarium/dolphin%20pokes%20its%20head%20out%20of%20the%20water.jpg <br>"Adrian, please! I'm fun to have sex with!"
[2001-06-20 08:15:00] - <img src=http://aporter.dhs.org/pics/aaron/aquarium/dolphin%20pokes%20its%20head%20out%20of%20the%20water.jpg><br>"Adrian, I'm so sexy... don't you want to be with me?
"[2001-06-20 08:13:00] - i wonder if the number of people boycotting the expansion will make a difference? -dave
[2001-06-20 08:09:00] - no, I guess you have to download the patch when you connect to a battle.net server. Gee, that sucks. - dewey
[2001-06-20 08:02:00] - katie: so you just don't download the patch, right? - dewey
[2001-06-20 02:51:00] - i'm boycotting blizzard's products, and i know that a rather large percentage of the community have cancelled their expansion pre-orders. - katie
[2001-06-20 02:49:00] - so essentially, blizzard has broken classic d2 so that you must now pay them $40 if you want it fixed. - katie
[2001-06-20 02:48:00] - ... builds are no longer viable, because they lack the "positive" features (godly equipment, strengthened skills, etc) that you can only get from -- you guessed it -- buying their expansion pack. - katie
[2001-06-20 02:47:00] - diablo 2 related news: they released a patch today that was basically made up of all the "negative" changes being made in the expansion - weakening skills, leech, increasing monster resistances, etc. as it stands, nearly all existing character...
[2001-06-20 01:44:00] - maybe this sort of system would save them money, and rental rates would be cheaper. -jdb
[2001-06-20 01:43:00] - it would probably be in good taste to make the policies very well understood, and perhaps have some sort of warning indicator on the dashboard. -jdb
[2001-06-20 01:29:00] - it's their own perogative, but i think they're being very invasive than they should be. like you said, their a private company, so i'll take my business elsewhere. - mig
[2001-06-20 01:26:00] - it's a private company. they have liabilities. i think it's very cool. -jdb
[2001-06-20 01:13:00] - i wouldn't call it cool. just wait till they install video cameras in public bathrooms. ~a
[2001-06-20 01:01:00] - http://www.newmassmedia.com/nac.phtml?code=new&db=nac_fea&ref=16435 <-- this is cool stuff -jdb
[2001-06-20 00:58:00] - @@@/pic.html ~a
[2001-06-19 23:48:00] - heh, if they figured in how rarely i drive -- my score may have been even lower. and if you figure in how little traffic there is on the roads i travel on... -jdb
[2001-06-19 23:46:00] - driver?
~a[2001-06-19 23:45:00] - i probably got low score because i am an exceptionally anal driver and i have very low attention span (so i almost never listen to music or anything like that). -jdb
[2001-06-19 23:41:00] - 75 seconds = 750 points
~a[2001-06-19 23:40:00] - i don't solve it all at once. ~a
[2001-06-19 23:40:00] - as far as i know, josh isn't 26. so that make 45 out of 60 points already. ~a
[2001-06-19 23:40:00] - I think the government should issue this test at the DMV and people who get above 110 should not be able to get their license renewed
-paul[2001-06-19 23:39:00] - See, but I don't know. Like I'll eat in the car, at stop lights and such, does that count? If so I think Adrian should have to answer "75 seconds" for question #2 because that's how long it takes him to solve the rubiks cube (if he's lucky, ha ha ha)
[2001-06-19 23:39:00] - yeah. and they say "0 - 110 points: Low distraction risk" . . . 0!
~a[2001-06-19 23:37:00] - Ha ha ha. And for question #2 you HAVE to get 10+ points - aaron
[2001-06-19 23:35:00] - i dunno. ~a
[2001-06-19 23:34:00] - hehe
[2001-06-19 23:34:00] - I mean I still consider myself a safe driver though. Do things you do at stop lights/while stopped in traffic count?
[2001-06-19 23:33:00] - a: Look at the second link... They mention it's not suppose to be a scientific test
-paul[2001-06-19 23:32:00] - http://www.msnbc.com/news/589475.asp?0cb=-2128664 ~a
[2001-06-19 23:31:00] - oh. here are the points. ~a
[2001-06-19 23:30:00] - a: I think we gave exactly the same answers
-paul[2001-06-19 23:30:00] - it's got to be the age. i am mad they didn't say what poits were worth what (unless i missed it!). it just helps prove my point that they are trying to scare kids into driving better. ~a
[2001-06-19 23:28:00] - 170, baby. The only things I think would bump up my score: I reach into the back seat for CD's and stuff, and I listen to/change CD's while driving... Plus my age, I guess? - aaron
[2001-06-19 23:26:00] - right! i was about to say that. and "Often listen to music, radio" ~a
[2001-06-19 23:26:00] - i never use a cellphone, never drive with pets, children, or people for that matter (on my commute), never anxious to make up time, never change cds or reach for anything further than the passanger seat. ~a
[2001-06-19 23:25:00] - a: I think I got all my points when I told them I was between the age of 16 and 25
-paul[2001-06-19 23:21:00] - (scare tactics that is) ~a
[2001-06-19 23:21:00] - it's not like they don't have a history of it. ~a
[2001-06-19 23:20:00] - it's a bad test. designed to scare people. i can and will defend that fact. ~a
[2001-06-19 23:08:00] - I got 160 on the test, moderate risk. Although I can't figure out how I got so high... -paul
[2001-06-19 22:37:00] - i got a on 60 the Distracted Driving Test -- Low distraction risk -jdb
[2001-06-19 22:22:00] - http://www.msnbc.com/news/588716.asp -jdb
[2001-06-19 22:07:00] - jdb: I surprised it's not more then that -paul
[2001-06-19 22:06:00] - dateline nbc. now. "1/4 accidents caused by distracted drivers." -jdb
[2001-06-19 20:39:00] - simpsons dvd box --> http://dvdmedia.ign.com/dvd/image/simbox.jpg -jdb
[2001-06-19 19:53:00] - http://www.telegraph.co.uk/et?ac=001669821461706&rtmo=axXeJ8eL&atmo=HHHHHH8L&pg=/et/01/6/17/nbibl17.html
[2001-06-19 17:45:00] - interesting... http://www.moveon.org/blackout/ , http://www.rollyourownblackout.com/ -jdb
[2001-06-19 16:54:00] - (admittedly, my X knowledge has gone downhill bigtime over the past school year.) -jdb
[2001-06-19 16:52:00] - you're probably working from sort of system-wide one. create a ~/.xinitrc and put "exec afterstep" in it. -jdb
[2001-06-19 16:47:00] - as in it's not in my ~/
[2001-06-19 16:46:00] - nothing in .xinitrc
[2001-06-19 16:44:00] - changing my window manager is not the problem. my problem is finding a way to keep gnome from starting up when i log in. - mig
[2001-06-19 16:43:00] - mig: look at your ~/.xinitrc -jdb
[2001-06-19 16:42:00] - and i have changed my xwindow manager before but i don't remember how. ~a
[2001-06-19 16:42:00] - mig: use fvwm. ~a
[2001-06-19 16:25:00] - ok i guess here's my question. how do i set it up so that when i login in x-windows starts and it just starts afterstep without starting gnome? - mig
[2001-06-19 15:50:00] - http://www.lp.org/lpnews/0107/medprivacy.html Hurray for medical "privacy" -paul
[2001-06-19 15:50:00] - i've been fiddling with afterstep, but i'm unsure of how to run it without gnome or without kde. - mig
[2001-06-19 15:49:00] - mig: i have kde installed now. but actually, i haven't used a linux desktop since may. i admin linux boxen via command line. -jdb
[2001-06-19 15:48:00] - mig: i recommend that you just try out some. for example, definitely try out blackbox,icewm,windowmaker. kde is nice. but keep in mind you really don't need kde or gnome "desktop" stuff. -jdb
[2001-06-19 15:44:00] - so, josh, what side are you on? - mig
[2001-06-19 15:43:00] - i don't know. does anyone know who lauren is? -dave
[2001-06-19 15:43:00] - i assumed it would be. - mig
[2001-06-19 15:41:00] - mig: that's a very religious war.
-jdb[2001-06-19 15:37:00] - so what do linux people recommend in terms on window managers. i have gnome running with sawfish right now. are there any better ones? - mig
[2001-06-19 15:34:00] - mmm... edy's whole fruit peach sorbet is awesome http://www.edys.com/brand/wholefruit/flavor.asp?b=126&f=1877 -jdb
[2001-06-19 15:30:00] - so what happened to this lauren person?
[2001-06-19 15:18:00] - i mean, if you don't drink. - mig
[2001-06-19 15:18:00] - katie: and since most people want to fit the norm, most people drink (shrug) least that's what i think -dave
[2001-06-19 15:18:00] - it's the whole philosphy on the 'in-crowd'. you're somehow not 'cool' if you drink for some reason. - mig
[2001-06-19 15:17:00] - katie: i think it's just generally harder to fit into the mainstream social scene if you don't drink -dave
[2001-06-19 15:15:00] - having said that, all of the roomates/suitemates i've had in the past thought there was something wrong with me because i choose not to drink. i wonder why so many people think you have to drink once you get to college? - katie
[2001-06-19 15:12:00] - age restrictions are pretty pointless - just because you turn 21, it doesn't mean you're going to drink responsibly. - katie
[2001-06-19 15:10:00] - without an age restriciton, we're letting everyone choose when they feel they are ready to consume alcohol. - mig
[2001-06-19 15:10:00] - i think that a lot of unhealthy (drunk driving, alcohol poisoning, etc) drinking tends to happen because kids are told not to do it. - katie
[2001-06-19 15:08:00] - dave: why do we need an age restriction? i mean, i'm pretty sure not everyone is going to start drinking while they're learning to drive. - mig
[2001-06-19 15:08:00] - that seems to make some sense to me -dave
[2001-06-19 15:07:00] - you know, the whole increase in drunk driving incididents might not have anything to do with the legal age at all. it might just be because at age 20-24, most kids are becoming independent for the first time and away from their parents -dave
[2001-06-19 15:05:00] - mig: but if you move the age, you'd have to have it be like 12-15 because you wouldn't want them starting to drink and learning to drive at the same time -dave
[2001-06-19 15:05:00] - dave: Miguel has it right, most Europeans drink "healthy", like the one glass of wine a day so their livers are probably better then ours are -paul
[2001-06-19 15:05:00] - mig: if most incidents are from 20-24 just because you start drinking at 21, it seems they should move the age -dave
[2001-06-19 15:04:00] - paul: yeah, some european nations don't like violence(like england), but there are those that don't have censorship period. - mig
[2001-06-19 15:04:00] - mig: so the most drunk driving incidents happen when people start drinking. maybe it's because at that age a lot of people are in college -dave
[2001-06-19 15:02:00] - katie: i'm not sure whether other alcoholic beverages are high in calories as well, but it seems like they would be -dave
[2001-06-19 15:02:00] - i think is that that europeans drink more casually(like they have wine at dinner) while americans just drink for party type stuff(football games, frat parties, etc.) - mig
[2001-06-19 15:01:00] - paul: i can attest to that. underage drinking is fun.
[2001-06-19 15:00:00] - paul: hehe, so their arteries are much cleaner, but their livers suck
-dave[2001-06-19 15:00:00] - madd's numbers are interesting. seems that the most drunk people in car accidents are the 20-24 age group(makes sense i guess). - mig
[2001-06-19 14:57:00] - http://www.salon.com/mwt/wire/2001/06/19/drug_abuse/index.html Interesting case -paul
[2001-06-19 14:56:00] - paul: i can attest to that. spain is the party capital of europe. - mig
[2001-06-19 14:55:00] - aaron: is that fair though? why don't we just punish those who drink irresponsibly, or those who drink and drive? - mig
[2001-06-19 14:55:00] - dave: Europeans tend to be less obese then Americans primarily because of diet. Interestingly enough Europeans also drink more alcohol then Americans (I think) and they still have less problems... -paul
[2001-06-19 14:53:00] - aaron: I think Miguel is right, underage drinking laws only punish those under 21 who drink responsibly... All other "crimes" are covered by other laws -paul
[2001-06-19 14:53:00] - i'm looking at madd's statistic page, but it's terribly confusing to figure out anything from their figures. - mig
[2001-06-19 14:53:00] - dave: isn't beer high in calories, though? hence the term "beer belly"? is it just beer that's high in calories, or is that true for wine/other liquor too? - katie
[2001-06-19 14:51:00] - mig: Actually, Europe is suppose to be tougher on violence when it comes to censorship, but more lax in most other areas -paul
[2001-06-19 14:51:00] - You're not, only punishing those who drink responsibly, don't be silly - aaron
[2001-06-19 14:51:00] - No, miguel, you are also punishing those under 21 who drink irresponsibly, and those under 21 who drink and drive - aaron
[2001-06-19 14:50:00] - dave: Likewise you have to be careful drawing a parallel between underage drinking laws and drunk driving accidents -paul
[2001-06-19 14:49:00] - there's no censorship in europe. i think i would like it there. - mig
[2001-06-19 14:48:00] - paul: i'm pretty sure that european countries are more lax on almost anything that age-restrictive here. i know england considers you an adult when you turn 16. - mig
[2001-06-19 14:48:00] - i wonder what percentage of drunk driving incidents are from people over 21 in the first place? -dave
[2001-06-19 14:46:00] - the only thing you do when you make alcohol age restrictive is you are punishing those under 21 who drink responsibly. - mig
[2001-06-19 14:45:00] - paul: but yeah, i think you're right, it's definitely something to consider -dave
[2001-06-19 14:45:00] - here's something else i can't seem to figure out either. these laws do absolutely nothing to stop a 21+ year old from driving while drunk until he's on the road, where hopefully, a cop will nab him. Why should it be different for anyone under 21?
[2001-06-19 14:44:00] - paul: the point of my last comment being that although you can compare the us and europe to some extent, you have to be a little careful, because the people are a bit different and would not always react the same way to things as us people would -dav
[2001-06-19 14:43:00] - paul: and europe definitely has fewer obese people as well, therefore i say the more you drink, the less obese you will be
-dave[2001-06-19 14:42:00] - mig: what are the consequences anyways? i think you can get your license taken away for like two years right? -dave
[2001-06-19 14:42:00] - Random thought: I think Europe has much more lax laws on underage drinking in general and they have fewer problems in general with drunk driving and stuff -paul
[2001-06-19 14:42:00] - mig: it might be a good idea to make the consequences known more. -dave
[2001-06-19 14:40:00] - why don't we do more of that instead of this "we don't think you're mature enough to handle acohol even if you are an adult" bullshit? - mig
[2001-06-19 14:37:00] - I seem to remember a few "Friends don't let friends drive drunk" commercials a while back, whatever happened to those. - mig
[2001-06-19 14:35:00] - umm... i dunno, how about making people aware of the consequences of drunk driving? Even if you do make laws, if people aren't aware of the consequences they're going to do it anyway. - mig
[2001-06-19 14:35:00] - in the case of drinking (and driving) the line between individual drinking freedom and strict laws governing drinking privledges is pretty delicate. -jdb
[2001-06-19 14:34:00] - mig: btw, i think you're pretty reasonable in your assertion that we should focus on the drunk driving part -dave
[2001-06-19 14:34:00] - mig: so what should they do to the drunk driving laws to make the number of incidents go down? -dave
[2001-06-19 14:33:00] - wasn't that one of the principles that our nation was founded on? - mig
[2001-06-19 14:32:00] - or i should say, the top priority. - mig
[2001-06-19 14:32:00] - as long as no one uses that personal freedom to infringe upon another's freedom, then yes it always is a priority. - mig
[2001-06-19 14:30:00] - should personal freedom always be the top priority?
[2001-06-19 14:28:00] - the drinking and the driving is what we should be address. not the drinking itself. - mig
[2001-06-19 14:27:00] - why can't we just encourage kids to drink responsibly. why do we have to infringe on their freeomds? it seems unreasonable to me. - mig
[2001-06-19 14:25:00] - but like i said, that didn't happen. so all these age-restriction laws don't do what they're supposed to. - mig
[2001-06-19 14:25:00] - seems pretty reasonable to me -dave
[2001-06-19 14:24:00] - so madd is just saying that they think there would be fewer drunk driving incidents if it was harder for kids to buy alcohol -dave
[2001-06-19 14:23:00] - mig: the thing is, it's all a matter of how difficult it is to get. like you could get an ak47 if you really wanted to, but it would be a lot of trouble -dave
[2001-06-19 14:20:00] - dave: the fact that kids can get alcohol. - mig
[2001-06-19 14:19:00] - mig: madd is charging that what is the cause? that parents aren't talking to their kids? -dave
[2001-06-19 14:17:00] - lauren: good, and you? -dave
[2001-06-19 14:15:00] - hello there, lauren. - mig
[2001-06-19 14:13:00] - ah, but madd is charging that it is the cause of drunk driving accidents. - mig
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