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[2004-05-13 17:29:00] - Mel: I think every single person that lives there is crazy.
-Paul[2004-05-13 17:29:00] - Vinnie: I think it's possible that they might be called racists, but it's not necessarily right to do so... - pierce
[2004-05-13 17:29:00] - Pierce: Because you assume they are an idiot. -Paul
[2004-05-13 17:28:00] - Paul: what do you think of California? -Mel
[2004-05-13 17:28:00] - Vinnie: I think you can see that even now. You don't often hear people claim that they don't find a certain race attractive and even when they do, they are often criticized (sometimes jokingly, sometimes not) as being racist. -Paul
[2004-05-13 17:27:00] - Paul: how am I intolerant? I'm not going to argue with them, but I reserve the right to judge them for establishing such a pointless (IMO) restriction on who they date. - pierce
[2004-05-13 17:27:00] - Pierce: I find the comparison between race and gender very interesting. because the general social perception is that its easier to change your preferences in a partner's race than your preferences in a partner's gender. -Mel
[2004-05-13 17:27:00] - *** Paul rubs bruise on head from Pierce's hammer. Ouch.
[2004-05-13 17:27:00] - i guess the next question is: do you think in the future people that don't find a certain race attractive will be called racists and treated like we treat people who hate other races today? i guess no one can know since we don't know how much biology and learning influence sexuality, but my guess is that it might be - vinnie
[2004-05-13 17:26:00] - Mel: It's California, there has to be SOME. -Paul
[2004-05-13 17:26:00] - regarding "and these were the types of kids that you all said could handle decisions about sex": I know you were being tongue-in-cheek, but I want to hammer into your head that I don't think adults are guaranteed to make the right decisions... just that they're more likely to be capable of it than a child, all else being equal. - pierce
[2004-05-13 17:26:00] - Pierce: You sound pretty intolerant of people who won't take black people.
-Paul[2004-05-13 17:26:00] - "good looking Caltech geeks" riiiight. There must be a lot of those.... -Mel
[2004-05-13 17:25:00] - Mel: So you must've had a lot of good looking Caltech geeks to choose from.
-Paul[2004-05-13 17:24:00] - and sexual orientation definitely falls into that latter category. - pierce
[2004-05-13 17:24:00] - so yeah, if you consciously say "I'll never date a black person" then you're an idiot who I won't argue with. But if you're just not attracted to black people, then I simply can't argue with you, because it's not a conscious decision. - pierce
[2004-05-13 17:22:00] - but you can't help who you "click with" either as a friend or romantically, so if you're subconsciously using race as an influencing factor then I can't really argue with you. - pierce
[2004-05-13 17:21:00] - regarding racist dating: it's the same philosophy as I hold with respect to friends of different races... if you're using race as a dealbreaking criterion for deciding your friends or romantic interests, I think you're a dumbass but I'm not going to bother arguing with you... it's your own choice. - pierce
[2004-05-13 17:19:00] - regarding rachel leigh cook: less attractive. I thought she was more attractive when she was wearing glasses and overalls in she's all that. I guess that's why that movie never made a lot of sense to me. - pierce
[2004-05-13 17:15:00] - Paul: yes, exactly. -mel
[2004-05-13 17:14:00] - Mel: Ratio problem? Not enough girls to go around? -Paul
[2004-05-13 17:14:00] - Pierce: Sure it did, you just didn't want to be mocked. -Paul
[2004-05-13 17:13:00] - Oh yeah, and these were the types of kids that you all said could handle decisions about sex, eh?
-Paul[2004-05-13 17:13:00] - oops, it'd probably help if I mentioned who I was. - pierce
[2004-05-13 17:13:00] - sorry guys, the network connection in my hotel room went down for a while
[2004-05-13 17:13:00] - yes, that too. Caltech's "ratio" problem is nothing compared to the military's. -Mel
[2004-05-13 17:12:00] - Not to mention appearantly horny. -Paul
[2004-05-13 17:11:00] - is he lying? the military is full of young foolish sheltered American kids. -Mel
[2004-05-13 17:10:00] - vinnie: I thought that particular quote was an interesting one. -Mel
[2004-05-13 17:07:00] - Vinnie: Yeah, there are some real stupid quotes from that article. -Paul
[2004-05-13 17:06:00] - Vinnie: My personal opinion is that anybody can change, and so even though you probably don't often see 80 year old racists all of a sudden changing their minds, I think it's possible. -Paul
[2004-05-13 17:05:00] - heh: "I don't know how these people got into our Army," said Sen. Ben Nighthorse Campbell - vinnie
[2004-05-13 17:03:00] - paul: I don't have any biological basis either so I'm going to shy away from that. I guess my question is whether you all think opinions of hatred are something that are largely immutable after a point, like I think sexuality is - vinnie
[2004-05-13 16:58:00] - http://www.nypost.com/news/nationalnews/20802.htm I almost feel sorry for this Pfc. Lynndie England. -Paul
[2004-05-13 16:53:00] - Vinnie: I would say that would have to be almost exclusively nurture then. Of course, I've already proven how little I know about human development so...
-Paul[2004-05-13 16:52:00] - hatred of a specific race - vinnie
[2004-05-13 16:51:00] - Vinnie: Bigotry, or hatred of a specific race? -Paul
[2004-05-13 16:51:00] - hating a race and thinking they're inferior isn't really based in biology (except for the natural tendency to shy away from those that are different than you) whereas finding someone attractive is more biologically based - travis
[2004-05-13 16:50:00] - or I guess on the other end, is bigotry entirely the result of nurture? - vinnie
[2004-05-13 16:49:00] - if sexuality is completely nurture, not nature, then doesn't that mean it's just as bad to find another race unattractive as it is to hate them? it would all be up to the person - vinnie
[2004-05-13 16:49:00] - Vinnie: The old nature vs nurture? -Paul
[2004-05-13 16:48:00] - Mel: Yeah, in that case I think you're safe. -Paul
[2004-05-13 16:48:00] - vinnie: what do you mean what if it isn't? -Mel
[2004-05-13 16:47:00] - Paul: No, I keep my intolerance mostly to myself. Nice save. ok then. -Mel
[2004-05-13 16:46:00] - perhaps sexuality is too genetically defined, but what if it isn't? - vinnie
[2004-05-13 16:46:00] - Mel: It depends. Do you go around yelling at people who are intolerant? In that case, I think you are bigoted in that respect. -Paul
[2004-05-13 16:45:00] - travis: see, I think that line gets blurry. what if the same reason you might not find people of another race attractive physically is why some people find some other people inferior, i.e., too much ingrained? - vinnie
[2004-05-13 16:45:00] - Aaron: I don't think it's considered bigoted, though, at least not by the definition I found. -Paul
[2004-05-13 16:45:00] - Paul: yes, I totally agree. People can go ahead and be intolerant as long as they keep it to themselves. So I am intolerabt of intolerance? what does that make me? -Mel
[2004-05-13 16:45:00] - Aaron: I don't know if there really is a difference between selective and discriminatory, though. -Paul
[2004-05-13 16:44:00] - I mean mostl people already restrict who they date to people they find attractive, which under any other circumstance, would be considered very bigoted
- aaron[2004-05-13 16:44:00] - Aaron: I like discriminatory or discrimination. -Paul
[2004-05-13 16:44:00] - Vinnie: It sounds like your definition refers to somebody who is just intolerant of other people's opinions. -Paul
[2004-05-13 16:44:00] - paul: Because with romance, it's tough to draw the line between 'bigoted' and 'selective' (although we need a new word other than bigoted) - aaron
[2004-05-13 16:43:00] - Travis: Yeah, that pisses me off a lot, when somebody says they can't date somebody of a certain race JUST because they are that race (even if they are attracted to them or whatnot). -Paul
[2004-05-13 16:43:00] - the definition of bigot I found is ambiguous: a person obstinately or intolerantly devoted to his or her own opinions and prejudices. that just means their opinion is intolerable, right? - vinnie
[2004-05-13 16:42:00] - Mel: I'm even willing to tolerate intolerance as long as they keep their intolerance to themselves.
-Paul[2004-05-13 16:42:00] - Aaron: Because you think you're just as discriminatory for not being able to go out with some group? -Paul
[2004-05-13 16:42:00] - if they just aren't attracted to them, that's perfectly all right, but if they avoid them because they're just generally racist it's quite another - travis
[2004-05-13 16:41:00] - Paul: I didn't know that. well then it really is a bad thing to be a bigot. Because I don't care what people do in their own lives as long as they are tolerant of other people's choices. -Mel
[2004-05-13 16:41:00] - the questionable part comes when you ask a person doesn't date members of a certain race - travis
[2004-05-13 16:40:00] - It never says anything about holding your own opinions (not dating black people) or discriminating. -Paul
[2004-05-13 16:39:00] - I've met some people who are like "i could never go out with someone who is bisexual" and my gut reaction is always, "how closed minded!" but then I think... well..... hmmm you win this time - aaron
[2004-05-13 16:39:00] - Aaron: Actually, I may have to change what I said before. I just looked up the definition of bigot and supposedly it's only supposed to refer to intolerance of other people's opinions than your own. -Paul
[2004-05-13 16:39:00] - aaron: if you start doing things like pestering your white friend for dating a black woman because she is black, well, that's another story. - mig
[2004-05-13 16:38:00] - mig: Okay, I think I agree with that. It's okay to discriminate by race/gender/handicapability/sexual orientation etc. under certain circumstances without being a bigot - aaron
[2004-05-13 16:37:00] - hehehe - vinnie
[2004-05-13 16:37:00] - aaron: no, i wouldn't consider a person a bigot. discrminator yes, but being discriminatory isn't a necesarily bad thing. - mig
[2004-05-13 16:36:00] - paul: So does restricting your dating habits to one gender make you a bigot also? - aaron
[2004-05-13 16:35:00] - aaron: I think you would have to consider them a bigot and a racist, but I don't think that always has to be as bad of a thing as it sounds. -Paul
[2004-05-13 16:34:00] - Aaron: I see no problem with somebody avoids dating people of a certain race or gender, but I dislike it when those people try to force their decisions on others. -Paul
[2004-05-13 16:34:00] - aaron: wow, thats a funny comparison. I like it. -Mel
[2004-05-13 16:33:00] - that it's acceptable for some but not for others - vinnie
[2004-05-13 16:33:00] - I guess, would you consider someone a bigot if they said, "i don't think i would ever go out with a black person" - aaron
[2004-05-13 16:33:00] - that it'
[2004-05-13 16:33:00] - we've had a similar debate about having friends all of your race. i think the conclusion was that it came down to culture - vinnie
[2004-05-13 16:32:00] - Obviously it's racist by definition, but lots of people consider it acceptable, I guess for the same reason that it's not sexist to call yourself heterosexual
or is it... - aaron[2004-05-13 16:32:00] - definitely politically incorrect. I don't know about morally wrong though. -mel
[2004-05-13 16:32:00] - I don't remember if we covered this. Do you consider it politically incorrect to avoid dating people of a certain race? - aaron
[2004-05-13 16:31:00] - not a bad question, just a bad debate
- vinnie[2004-05-13 16:30:00] - Yupyup. I admit it. Bad question. Move along.
-Paul[2004-05-13 16:29:00] - right, aaron got it - vinnie
[2004-05-13 16:29:00] - yeah, also acceptance of other beliefs. I think it's pretty easy to have friends you strongly disagree with as long as that difference doesn't crop up all the time. same goes for relationships - vinnie
[2004-05-13 16:28:00] - Paul: There's a difference between being politically different and being politically intolerant. - aaron
[2004-05-13 16:28:00] - otherwise you can start calling any debate a political debate - travis
[2004-05-13 16:27:00] - paul: yelling at you for eating meat and driving an suv aren't necessarily political things, just lifestyle choices - travis
[2004-05-13 16:27:00] - Hmmm, ok. Bad question. Somebody else ask one now.
-Paul[2004-05-13 16:26:00] - then it comes down to a difference in interest, so that if one person is strongly into politics the other person could be discouraged from the relationship - travis
[2004-05-13 16:25:00] - I guess so, but what if you didn't care about politics and got engaged to somebody who is aways organizing protests and yelling at you for eating meat and driving an SUV and the like. -Paul
[2004-05-13 16:24:00] - paul: that's makes sense, right? the people that don't care don't care - vinnie
[2004-05-13 16:23:00] - Paul: yes, I think it is. -Mel
[2004-05-13 16:22:00] - Interesting, I wonder if your opinion on whether or not political orientation is based on how strongly your own interests in politics are. -Paul
[2004-05-13 16:21:00] - Travis: In fact, I don't even know if I can tell she is wearing eyeshadow or not.
-Paul[2004-05-13 16:21:00] - Paul: I think political compatibility is important, because it stems from some fundemental beliefs about human nature. Thats really what political disagreements boil down to. -Mel
[2004-05-13 16:21:00] - paul: I don't think it's important. Religious compatibility on the other hand..... - aaron
[2004-05-13 16:20:00] - Travis: Do you have the same picture without eyeshadow?
Because it's hard for me to seperate the eyeshadow from her natural beauty. All I can say is that she looks good there. -Paul[2004-05-13 16:20:00] - travis: you didn't ask me either but better - vinnie
[2004-05-13 16:19:00] - I've got an interesting question. How important do you think political compatibility is in a relationship, and do you think it's more attractive for a mate to agree more or disagree more? -Paul
[2004-05-13 16:19:00] - travis: you didn't ask me, but I vote worse. -Mel
[2004-05-13 16:19:00] - paul: http://www.colosscollect.com/mags/razr0210.jpg does rachel leigh cook better or worse in this pic because of the eyeshadow? - travis
[2004-05-13 16:18:00] - Mel: Thanks. I'm always on the look out for when I can make inappropriate a rude comments that dredge up previous bitter disagreements.
-Paul[2004-05-13 16:18:00] - paul: that's what the eyeshadow does for me - travis
[2004-05-13 16:17:00] - Travis: Come on, they help give the wide-eyed look that you seem to love.
-Paul[2004-05-13 16:16:00] - Paul: haha. good point about the vote. Nice. -Mel
[2004-05-13 16:16:00] - in general i think glasses on girl look good. But not necessarily specifically on me and glasses are a huge annoyance too. -mel
[2004-05-13 16:16:00] - i'm totally ambivalent about glasses, even though i think the eyes are one of most, if not the most, important aspects - travis
[2004-05-13 16:15:00] - Travis: Almost always I think that kind of make-up just makes people look worse, although there are exceptions. -Paul
[2004-05-13 16:15:00] - goth = goodness - vinnie
[2004-05-13 16:15:00] - travis: oh hell no! you should know i love that look. provided it's well done - vinnie
[2004-05-13 16:15:00] - Mig: And you are just as responsible for it, even though you didn't vote.
-Paul[2004-05-13 16:15:00] - and regarding makeup, i'm probably alone in liking the black eyeshadow look, as long as it's done well - travis
[2004-05-13 16:14:00] - sorry, mig: the vote already happened. now it's law - vinnie
[2004-05-13 16:13:00] - i tried getting contacts, but it took me half an hour to put one in, then half an hour to get it back out, so that was the end of that - travis
[2004-05-13 16:13:00] - hold on now, i agreed to no such thing. - mig
[2004-05-13 16:13:00] - paul/vinnie mindmeld there - vinnie
[2004-05-13 16:12:00] - B-But Mel! we determined girls look better with glasses! only i may get the surgery
- vinnie[2004-05-13 16:12:00] - Mel: Even though we all agree that glasses make women look sexier?
-Paul[2004-05-13 16:12:00] - i have never had any problems using contacts, other than having to get new ones every 1-2 years. - mig
[2004-05-13 16:11:00] - oh really? nithin has never complained, except on the rare occasion when he forgot his case or didn't have solution - vinnie
[2004-05-13 16:11:00] - Paul: I want to get laser surgery eventually. -Mel
[2004-05-13 16:11:00] - But yeah from what Adrian says, contacts sound like a big pain - aaron
[2004-05-13 16:10:00] - Mel: You planning on sticking with glasses or eventually getting contacts or something? -Paul
[2004-05-13 16:10:00] - Well, no point in getting contacts if you're just going to have to take them out to get the surgery - aaron
[2004-05-13 16:10:00] - much - vinnie
[2004-05-13 16:09:00] - contacts seem like they would be a pain. though so many people I know wear them and don't complain - vinnie
[2004-05-13 16:09:00] - vinnie: same reason that I still wear glasses too. Just wondering -Mel
[2004-05-13 16:08:00] - laziness. never felt like getting contacts and i plan on getting laser surgery eventually - vinnie
[2004-05-13 16:07:00] - why do you wear glasses then? -Mel
[2004-05-13 16:07:00] - mel: which point are you "why"ing? - vinnie
[2004-05-13 16:06:00] - Travis: Hear that? Ditch the glasses. -Paul
[2004-05-13 16:06:00] - vinnie: why? -Mel
[2004-05-13 16:06:00] - i too think guys without glasses. yet I wear them anyway... - vinnie
[2004-05-13 16:06:00] - Pierce: you need to say things in order for us to mock you. -Mel
[2004-05-13 16:05:00] - well, I'll at least say that some of the people in that People article I thought looked better with make-up. i know that you all were finding otherwise earlier - vinnie
[2004-05-13 16:05:00] - Paul: in general I think guys look better without glasses. -Mel
[2004-05-13 16:05:00] - about makeup, I think it varies. If the person is naturally beautiful often they are fine without makeup. -Mel
[2004-05-13 16:04:00] - Vinnie: It really depends. I think a lot of actresses and celebrities overdo it, but most "normal" people use it well. -Paul
[2004-05-13 16:04:00] - minority here, obviously, not in general - vinnie
[2004-05-13 16:04:00] - If you saw it, do you remember the scene that Paris Hilton was in? -Mel
[2004-05-13 16:04:00] - So how about guys? Do they look better with glasses or without? -Paul
[2004-05-13 16:04:00] - how about makeup? i might be in the minority but I think a lot of people look better with it - vinnie
[2004-05-13 16:04:00] - Did any of you guys see wonderland? I really liked the movie. -Mel
[2004-05-13 16:03:00] - yes, we seem to all agree. -Mel
[2004-05-13 16:02:00] - So do we all agree that generally, glasses make girls look more attractive? -Paul
[2004-05-13 16:02:00] - Paul: yes, adults know about white lies. And other types of lies. -mel
[2004-05-13 16:02:00] - c'mon, you don't need scare quotes around rape, when "allegedly raped" is a perfectly good phrase - vinnie
[2004-05-13 16:02:00] - Pierce: that sounds fun.
-Mel[2004-05-13 16:02:00] - Pierce: No, your idea sucks. Wait a second... -Paul
[2004-05-13 16:01:00] - Mel: Because kids can get away with saying what's on their mind. Adults can't get away with it. Or they can, but find out that it's often better not to tell the truth. -Paul
[2004-05-13 16:01:00] - Paul: it just doesn't work as well when you force it. How about we just spend today having a nice polite message board conversation, where we incessantly mock me. Is that all right with you? - pierce
[2004-05-13 16:01:00] - travis: He did a really good job capturing it and its so hard to do. I love Calvin and Hobbes. -Mel
[2004-05-13 16:00:00] - I think when people "grow up" they stop being honest anymore. They start thinking about everything before they say it. And they judge everything. Kids are very open-minded and tolerant really. Somehow this starts disappearing as people get older. Pierce, this is why people should not grow up. -Mel
[2004-05-13 16:00:00] - Vinnie: He just pictures all the Spurs as the girl he "raped". -Paul
[2004-05-13 15:59:00] - Pierce: Hmmmm. Ok then. All women are evil witches. How about that? Or have we done that too much too?
-Paul[2004-05-13 15:59:00] - hahaha, isn't that hilarious? like the pressure on kobe in court makes him play better? - vinnie
[2004-05-13 15:59:00] - Or a joke to that effect. - pierce
[2004-05-13 15:59:00] - When I grow around the house, I really grow around the house. - pierce
[2004-05-13 15:59:00] - mel: that's why calvin and hobbes was the best comic strip ever, because waterson nailed both of those aspects of childhood - travis
[2004-05-13 15:59:00] - Travis: As long as he's not doing it against my Kings, I don't care as much. -Paul
[2004-05-13 15:59:00] - well, apart from my extreme judgementalism, I would fit - vinnie
[2004-05-13 15:58:00] - Paul: not only is that not altogether controversial (I don't think), but it's something we've discussed ad nauseum before. Zero points. - pierce
[2004-05-13 15:58:00] - Pierce: You're going to be growing, "around"? -Paul
[2004-05-13 15:58:00] - paul: or every basketball player should be accused of rape so they can go to court hearings and kick the other team's ass that night
- travis[2004-05-13 15:58:00] - the best 2 things about kids are 1) their naive honesty 2) they are not judgemental yet. -Mel
[2004-05-13 15:58:00] - Mel: you're right, I'll cancel my plans to grow up in favor of my current state of growing horizontally. - pierce
[2004-05-13 15:57:00] - Ok, how about when somebody is accused of rape, either both people should be named publically or neither should be named publically. -Paul
[2004-05-13 15:56:00] - pierce: or not. actually don't. Thats when people start getting boring.
-Mel[2004-05-13 15:56:00] -
[2004-05-13 15:56:00] - sheesh pierce - vinnie
[2004-05-13 15:56:00] - I need to grow up. - pierce
[2004-05-13 15:56:00] - hehehe "what's up". - pierce
[2004-05-13 15:56:00] -
-Paul[2004-05-13 15:56:00] - I thought this message board was supposed to be safe for work. -Mel
[2004-05-13 15:55:00] - haha. what's up with the new title, paul? -Mel
[2004-05-13 15:55:00] - very subtle - vinnie
[2004-05-13 15:55:00] - hahaha at title - vinnie
[2004-05-13 15:55:00] - Pierce: Oh, probably not on this message board. Just discussions we've had in person I think. -Paul
[2004-05-13 15:54:00] - haha. yes, Paul go ahead. Hit us up with something. -Mel
[2004-05-13 15:54:00] - Paul: Sorry, I came into this conversation late... had you discussed it before during today's conversations, or before today? - pierce
[2004-05-13 15:54:00] - Ew, too much agreeing going on here. This isn't any fun. Am I going to have to say something controversial?
-paul\[2004-05-13 15:53:00] - Paul: no, I just wanted to see what you'd say. -Mel
[2004-05-13 15:53:00] - apparently we are the choir.
-mel[2004-05-13 15:53:00] - Mel: Do I really need to spell it out for you?
-Paul[2004-05-13 15:53:00] - Pierce: Thats cool, I agree with you too. -Mel
[2004-05-13 15:53:00] - pierce: you are preaching to the choir - vinnie
[2004-05-13 15:52:00] - Paul: I think thats a healthy perspective. -Mel
[2004-05-13 15:52:00] - Pierce: I think Vinnie and I agree with you. We've discussed this before.
-Paul[2004-05-13 15:52:00] - mel: yeah, i missed one crucial sentence you had said earlier - vinnie
[2004-05-13 15:51:00] - Paul: haha. well what would I be tryong to compensate for??
-Mel[2004-05-13 15:51:00] - Travis: Yeah, it seems like to a lot of people their job is the most important thing to them whereas for me it's simply a way to get money so I can do things I actually enjoy. -Paul
[2004-05-13 15:51:00] - just like i never plan on going to grad school because i don't feel like specializing that much, which also leads to me not moving high in any career - travis
[2004-05-13 15:51:00] - Here's the ironic part... a lot of times, I find women more attractive when they have glasses on. I think it accentuates their eyes, which I think are one of the best features. - pierce
[2004-05-13 15:51:00] - vinnie: no, thats my theory about why Paul think that VT didn't have too many people with similar interests. Because its such a big college, it was hard to find them. I went to a smaller college, so it was easy for me to find people like myself. -Mel
[2004-05-13 15:49:00] - vinnie: i guess i'm like paul concerning my career, i just can't envision myself being at a very high level (like a manager or something), so as long as i make decent money and mostly enjoy my work, i have no problem about not advancing my career (especially since i'm still dreaming of the writing path) - travis
[2004-05-13 15:49:00] - "I think thats because your college was much bigger than mine." Is it wrong that I immediately think of somebody compensating for something? -Paul
[2004-05-13 15:49:00] - vinnie: she went to caltech. - pierce
[2004-05-13 15:49:00] - i vaguely remember him from conversations you and travis had - vinnie
[2004-05-13 15:48:00] - Vinnie: If you knew him, you probably would've recognized the name. Yeah, he was the goofy CS major that was trying to program games. -Paul
[2004-05-13 15:48:00] - mel: you went to a big college? where'd you go? - vinnie
[2004-05-13 15:48:00] - Mel: Well, that's one of the theories. Women are putting their careers first (which is certainly valid) but then later in life they are looking for a husband to settle down with and start a family and wondering where all the good men have gone. -Paul
[2004-05-13 15:48:00] - paul: i'm not sure who that is, but I think it's that guy who tried to program games or something? - vinnie
[2004-05-13 15:47:00] - Vinnie: Like Benjamin Bentley? -Paul
[2004-05-13 15:46:00] - Paul: yes, I don't think that's really possible. So thats why younger women aren't looking to settle down yet. -mel
[2004-05-13 15:46:00] - Mel: Ah yes, the worst example of trying to make a pretty girl look ugly by putting glasses on Rachel Leigh Cook. -Paul
[2004-05-13 15:45:00] - vinnie: yes, I agree completely. -Mel
[2004-05-13 15:45:00] - Mel: No, I think if anything men are trying to advance it more than women in general. I just think that women have this belief that they can go out and be a great and powerful business-woman while also having the family of their dreams and I think that's like having your cake and eating it too. -Paul
[2004-05-13 15:45:00] - I think VT did have those same TJ-like people, just that it was so hard to find them since the place was so big. i sometimes regret not having gone to a smaller college - vinnie
[2004-05-13 15:45:00] - "She's All That" was the movie I was trying to remember earlier with a classic example of a "pretty ugly" girl -Mel
[2004-05-13 15:44:00] - Vinnie: I can't speak for Travis, but I personally don't think I care as much about my career as most people. I'm not entirely sure why people are so motivated to work their way up the corporate ladder, but as long as I have a job I enjoy and make decent money with enough time off to do what I want, I don't care how far up the ladder I am. -Paul
[2004-05-13 15:43:00] - Paul: It just depends on the college. I think thats because your college was much bigger than mine. -Mel
[2004-05-13 15:43:00] - ah. ok. Paul, do you think men are trying to advance their careers less than women? Its sort of different, because men can advance their careers while starting a family whereas for women it is much harder. -Mel
[2004-05-13 15:42:00] - Mel: I was quite the opposite. College introduced me to loads of people with which who I had little in common with and were lots different from how I thought normal people were.
-Paul[2004-05-13 15:41:00] - more concerned about going out and advancing in their profession and whatnot to be concerned about relationships as much - vinnie
[2004-05-13 15:41:00] - I think I was spoiled by college. Its hard to find people I share as many interests with outside of college. -Mel
[2004-05-13 15:41:00] - Vinnie: Trying to advance our careers? -Paul
[2004-05-13 15:39:00] - like what? -Mel
[2004-05-13 15:38:00] - so why aren't you two like that?
- vinnie[2004-05-13 15:37:00] - I think right now, most women are more concerned about going out and advancing in their profession and whatnot to be concerned about relationships as much. -Paul
[2004-05-13 15:36:00] - I've heard theories that the tables turn quite a bit when women start reaching middle age and start getting frantic about settling down. -Paul
[2004-05-13 15:31:00] - Travis: Mary Kate and Ashley AND Emma Watson. *Drool* -Paul
[2004-05-13 15:30:00] - paul: if we were spoiled, it sure hasn't help any - travis
[2004-05-13 15:29:00] - speaking of "couple" there's some magazine that has a list of top couples or some such nonsense, and i believe two of the ones mentioned on the cover were nick & jessica and mary-kate & ashley
gentlemen, start your fantasies - travis[2004-05-13 15:29:00] - Yeah, I think we all got a bit spoiled at TJ, where people shared a lot of similar interests and were a lot like us in general. -Paul
[2004-05-13 15:28:00] - paul: i didn't mean all of them, i meant any of them. like vinnie said, some of the few girls i knew from TJ share a couple - travis
[2004-05-13 15:24:00] - I've met enough girls into that kind of stuff that didn't have boyfriends. most of my female friends at TJ. but really, I've had a hard time meeting people like that since. so, yeah, the shared interest thing is on that level is tough- vinnie
[2004-05-13 15:23:00] - Travis: Then just go for a girl that you have something in common with instead of everything. She doesn't have to share all your hobbies as long as she can tolerate most of them.
-Paul[2004-05-13 15:21:00] - and this shared interest areas theory can't really help me, since girls that like comics, metal, basketball, and video games are few and far between, and if usually if you meet one somewhere she got into it because of a boyfriend - travis
[2004-05-13 15:20:00] - Travis: And I remember John and I were terrified of you.
-Paul[2004-05-13 15:19:00] - vinnie: yup, as evidenced by the fact that i didn't talk to anyone and ate lunch alone for the first few weeks at TJ, until i was forced into a group with paul in english class - travis
[2004-05-13 15:18:00] - Vinnie: I think I'm the worst person at giving advice, since I've successfully repulsed pretty much every single female I've ever met that's close to my age.
-Paul[2004-05-13 15:18:00] - Travis: Find a reason to go talk to her then. It sounds like your workplace is loose enough for that. Your job never requires any interaction with her? -Paul
[2004-05-13 15:18:00] - this is funny that I'm giving this advice, when really I would be in the same boat if I were looking - vinnie
[2004-05-13 15:17:00] - oh, you meant, in any place, you couldn't do that. that is a problem, yes - vinnie
[2004-05-13 15:16:00] - yes, you can, but you've listed a bunch of bad places for it. I personally don't think work is a bad place for it, and especially not social events that are work-sponsored - vinnie
[2004-05-13 15:16:00] - then there's cases like a girl here at work that i wanted to approach but never did (we already went over negative aspects of workplace relationships) and now i'd feel too odd approaching her because she's been her a little while so it would be much more randomly awkward than greeting her as a newbie - travis
[2004-05-13 15:14:00] - well, no matter what, it doesn't change the fact that i can't just go up to random people and start talking
- travis[2004-05-13 15:14:00] - Vinnie: Didn't we just hear from a woman that females don't want to be approached in a gym either?
-Paul[2004-05-13 15:12:00] - but i'm sure there are some people that end up in long-term relationships from meeting at clubs - vinnie
[2004-05-13 15:12:00] - travis: I'm just saying the club is probably not the place to go. anything else basically would be better, even the gym - vinnie
[2004-05-13 15:10:00] - Travis: I have my own theories, but I'm willing to admit that I don't have the answer about how to find somebody to be in a long term relationship with. -Paul
[2004-05-13 15:09:00] - Travis: All I meant was that just as many men probably go to clubs for the music and dancing as women. -Paul
[2004-05-13 15:07:00] - so that only the people that aren't even looking for a relationship will be the ones to get them - travis
[2004-05-13 15:06:00] - vinnie: so it seems like everyone is saying long term relationships can't be started by actively seeking out a mate... - travis
[2004-05-13 15:05:00] - paul: but from your comment "Well, the guys that go for the music generally aren't going to be approaching women" it seems like a guy is just supposed to randomly get into a relationship because either he's looking to hook-up or there for the actual activity (music, class, whatever) - travis
[2004-05-13 15:04:00] - yeah, the more specialized the venue, the more likely you're gonna find someone who shares interests. but I think the club mentality still holds, that most people hitting on other people aren't looking for something long-term - vinnie
[2004-05-13 15:04:00] - Travis: Ouch, not me?
-Paul[2004-05-13 15:04:00] - Travis: I know the feeling. I was once interested in making a computer game but I couldn't find anybody with artistic skills to make the graphics at least halfway presentable so I kinda gave up on it. -Paul
[2004-05-13 15:04:00] - i guess vinnie and mel, since they were talking about it - travis
[2004-05-13 15:03:00] - Travis: Who is that question directed to?
-Paul[2004-05-13 15:02:00] - about the meeting girls at places, if you went to a place like nation, which has a pretty established music scene, wouldn't it be likely you'd at least share music interests with any girl you meet there? - travis
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