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[2004-10-21 19:08:42] - a: It seems easier.  At least I have my family over in VA whereas here I just have myself.  -mel

[2004-10-21 19:08:00] - haha.  ~a

[2004-10-21 19:07:54] - you mean that it seems "attractive"?  ~a

[2004-10-21 19:07:48] - a: typo.  It just seems attractive to go back to VA when I feel unhappy here in CA.  -mel

[2004-10-21 19:07:25] - a: the truth is that I don't think it would solve much to move to VA.  It just seems unattractive when I feel less happy over here.  -mel

[2004-10-21 19:05:37] - a: yes, exactly.  -mel

[2004-10-21 19:05:22] - *too ~a

[2004-10-21 19:05:13] - yes yes i know you don't miss virginia because it's virginia.  you miss virginia because of something (people, places, emotional attachments to the former/latter)  ~a

[2004-10-21 19:04:46] - aba: I'm at work too, but it's only 4 PM here.  -mel

[2004-10-21 19:03:46] - aba:  to busy on a friday for the reunion?  ~a

[2004-10-21 19:03:35] - a: I miss knowing where I was going and what I was doing (or at leats thinking I did    ).  -mel

[2004-10-21 19:02:45] - a: I don't miss virginia.  I mis my family.  -mel

[2004-10-21 19:02:42] - aba:  i'm at work.  ~a

[2004-10-21 19:02:29] - aba: haha It's 7 PM, maybe you should reconsider you definition of slacker.    -mel

[2004-10-21 19:02:28] - mel:  i'm still here.  i saw your response and no i was not being serious.  i always wanted to move to california (i thought it to be a cool place to visit) so it's interesting you actually do miss virginia.  ~a

[2004-10-21 19:02:02] - aba: where will you live?  Closer to CA, I hope??  -mel

[2004-10-21 19:01:38] - aba: hey!  -mel

[2004-10-21 19:01:13] - ps: i dont know how all you slackers arent still at work right now.  -  aba

[2004-10-21 19:00:51] - i wont be at the reunion either unfortunately.  i still do live in VA though.   (but i will probably be gone within the next year) - aba

[2004-10-21 18:56:41] - alright, I'm going to take off to do some work.  a: if you're still there, I'm not sure if you were being serious, but your response was really true. later.  -mel

[2004-10-21 18:44:52] - pierce: bye!  Good talking to you.  Its been awhile since we were both on the message board.  -mel

[2004-10-21 18:44:26] - pierce: of course!!  I always like talking to you.  Or "talking" I guess.    Mine is [first name].A.soriano [at] jpl.nasa.gov.    -mel

[2004-10-21 18:43:23] - I have to meet for dinner now, but I'll be back in like an hour if you're still here.    Talk to you later! - pierce

[2004-10-21 18:43:12] - pierce: I am hoping to be in VA for a week and a half or so.  Including Christmas and New Years.    -mel

[2004-10-21 18:43:01] - mel: awww, that sucks that you won't be there but I'm glad you'll get to spend some time with your sister. - pierce

[2004-10-21 18:42:32] - mel: would you mind sending me your email address?  mine is phanley [at] ph0.org.  But I understand if you don't want to... - pierce

[2004-10-21 18:42:12] - pierce: I was going to but I changed my mind.  My sister is taking leave (she is stationed in Japan and just reenlisted) for a month in Dec/Jan.  So I decided to save my (precious) vacation days and take them all then.  -mel

[2004-10-21 18:40:55] - Paul: bye bye - pierce

[2004-10-21 18:40:48] - mel: are you coming back for the reunion?  sorry if you've answered that to anyone else. - pierce

[2004-10-21 18:40:18] - paul: bye Paul!  Talk to you tomororrow.  -mel

[2004-10-21 18:40:05] - Anyway, NOW I'm outta here. -Paul

[2004-10-21 18:40:01] - a: I think you are are partially right.  It's weird being off all alone in a different state from my family.  I often ask myself what I am really doing over here in CA.  -mel

[2004-10-21 18:39:55] - Pierce: Right, logically it makes sense, but it still feels very wrong voting for Kerry (Rush). That's all I was commenting on. -Paul

[2004-10-21 18:39:43] - I think (correct me if I'm wrong) that we're all agreed that feeling bad about the swap would be mostly illogical.  I don't think I'd feel that guilt.  To each his or her own. - pierce

[2004-10-21 18:39:10] - pierce: the theoretically was in response to overcoming illogic.  I think you know how I feel for real. -mel

[2004-10-21 18:39:07] - Arg, I really wish I could stick around a talk some more since there is some good stuff being discussed, but I got to get going. Talk to you all tomorrow. -Paul

[2004-10-21 18:39:02] - Paul: if you truly can't decide which is the lesser evil, then you shouldn't swap votes.  But if you can, like if I thought O'Reilly was a slightly less awful candidate than Limbaugh, then it is only beneficial to swap. - pierce

[2004-10-21 18:38:37] - mel:  i think your confusion is tied to your non-virginia residential status.  ~a

[2004-10-21 18:38:33] - pierce: no, IM is different.  I uninstalled AIM at work because it came up every time my computer rebooted and my boss commented on it.  I don't use the computer at home.  So the message board (plus Firefox tabs works better.  -mel

[2004-10-21 18:37:51] - mel: theoretically the same reasoning, or theoretically I know how you feel? - pierce

[2004-10-21 18:37:20] - Pierce: It's like I said before, I can't really give a good reason why, I just know that it feels very wrong to vote for somebody who I really don't like. Would you swap votes and vote for Bill O'Reilly over Rush Limbaugh just because he's only your second least favorite guy? Does it make a difference if it's Rush or Bill? That's how I feel. -Paul

[2004-10-21 18:37:18] - pierce: yeah, I bet you do.  Its this post-graduation confusion.  -mel

[2004-10-21 18:36:33] - pierce: right..... theoretically....    -mel

[2004-10-21 18:36:16] - Mel: I know how you feel. - pierce

[2004-10-21 18:36:03] - I mean, I'm not on IM that often either, but you never seem to be there.  Same reasoning? - pierce

[2004-10-21 18:35:49] - pierce: in life, that is.  I have been feeling up and down and up again.  Too much craziness to post on the journal.  -mel

[2004-10-21 18:35:43] - Mel: also, why never online anymore? - pierce

[2004-10-21 18:35:17] - Mel+Paul: if you genuinely think the greater evil is more evil, then you can justify the lesser evil's actions as "well, it could be worse, and I wasn't inconsistent with my real beliefs".  Mel: I know you added "(illogically)", but if you know it's illogical you should be able to overcome it... right? - pierce

[2004-10-21 18:34:29] - pierce: Thanks!  I might start a new journal somewhere else.  I got tired of the old one and I have been trying to change all sorts of things about my life which is why I was gone (from the message baord) for awhile.  I have been sorting things out.  Trying to figure out where to go from here.  -mel

[2004-10-21 18:32:40] - Paul: you're correct about the "voting is dirty" comment.  But how is Kerry being your second least favorite a problem in the scenario I described? - pierce

[2004-10-21 18:32:20] - Paul: No, I knew it was intended for you.  But I thought I would go ahead and comment anyway.   -mel

[2004-10-21 18:31:22] - Pierce: Well, the problem is that Kerry is probably my second least favorite (if not absolute least favorite) of the candidates. Also, I think you and Mel are getting confused because she responded to your "voting is dirty" remark and you seem to think it was me. -Paul

[2004-10-21 18:30:31] - Mel: how come no journals anymore?  I miss them, I like them.  - pierce

[2004-10-21 18:29:40] - Paul: I thought you did find voting dirty, because it represented participation in government, and you think all government is illegitimate.  Didn't we have that debate with respect to your anarcho-capitalist views ages ago? - pierce

[2004-10-21 18:28:39] - Paul: I would feel bad if I swapped my vote and ended up voting for my least favorite candidate, but that's not the case here.  If Kerry is your least favorite candidate, then by all means don't swap.  But if Bush is your least favorite candidate it gives you the opportunity to effect that opinion without any cost to your ideals. - pierce

[2004-10-21 18:26:12] - Mel: In fact, he would probably be your ideal candidate since (if I recall correctly) he has pledged to try not to hurt Kerry and tip the election to Bush. I think, might want to double check that. -Paul

[2004-10-21 18:23:12] - Mel: I know, I was joking there. Seriously, though, you strike me as a Green Party type of person so I figured you would like him. -Paul

[2004-10-21 18:20:33] - paul: I'm not a communist.  -mel

[2004-10-21 18:19:55] - pierce: hey!  I don't find voting dirty either.  I like the idea of voting.  But I might (illogically) feel responsible for for the actions of the lesser evil.  -mel

[2004-10-21 18:19:49] - Mel: Of course. He's a communist. -Paul

[2004-10-21 18:19:16] - Pierce: Ok, but if somebody wanted you to vote for Bush in return for them voting for Kerry elsewhere (or some third party candidate you liked). Wouldn't you feel a little bad voting for somebody you hate? -Paul

[2004-10-21 18:18:33] - paul: So you honestly thought I would like Cobb? -mel

[2004-10-21 18:18:15] - Paul: then again, I don't find voting "dirty", nor would I feel responsible for the actions of the lesser evil (since I would know that it'd have been functionally better than simply voting third-party for myself). - pierce

[2004-10-21 18:18:10] - Paul: cool.  that's the answer I was looking for.  A general one.  -mel

[2004-10-21 18:18:05] - Mel: No, I was being serious. Sorry if I confused you. -Paul

[2004-10-21 18:17:50] - Paul: Feel free to generalize, by the way.  -mel

[2004-10-21 18:17:26] - Mel: As far as I know, there aren't really any major differences between the two other than their goals (play spoiler, build a party, etc) and emphasis. But I could be wrong. -Paul

[2004-10-21 18:17:11] - Paul: if I had a clear preference between two candidates but was going to vote third-party, and someone was willing to swap my preferred evil for a third party vote in their state, and I trusted them to do it, then I wouldn't be troubled by the idea. - pierce

[2004-10-21 18:17:11] - Paul: haha.  were you serious when you said I like him?  I thought you weren't.  -mel

[2004-10-21 18:15:13] - Mel: Told you. You didn't trust me? Had to read about him on your own instead of just blindly voting for him based on my word? I'm hurt. -Paul

[2004-10-21 18:14:56] - Paul: So do you know what the major differences in position between Nader and Cobb are?  -mel

[2004-10-21 18:14:41] - Mel: Also, Nader said he didn't want the nomination, just an endorsement from the Green Party. -Paul

[2004-10-21 18:12:38] - Paul: ok, yeah I understand.  makes sense.  -mel

[2004-10-21 18:12:17] - Paul:  I'm reading about Cobb right now...  I like him.    -mel

[2004-10-21 18:12:09] - Er... last presidential election. -Paul

[2004-10-21 18:11:58] - Mel: I think they were unhappy over how Nader kinda took the nomination but didn't really stress the main planks of the green party as much in his candidacy last year. -Paul

[2004-10-21 18:11:07] - Paul: ah ok.  why did the Green Party nominate Cobb this year and not Nader?  -mel

[2004-10-21 18:09:33] - Mel: Yeah, Nader was the candidate for the Greens last year but they nominated somebody else this year. Cobb is the official (in most respects) nominee of the Green Party while Nader is an independent/write-in. -Paul

[2004-10-21 18:07:43] - Paul: Cortrection.  Actually Nader is write-in in California.  -mel

[2004-10-21 18:06:47] - paul: haha.  yes, I do.  You can take that however you like.  -mel

[2004-10-21 18:06:17] - Paul: I thought Nader was Green Party.  Am confused?  Did he used to be? -mel

[2004-10-21 18:06:15] - Mel: I'm not so sure you WOULD prefer my presidency over a Bush one, but I appreciate the sentiment nonetheless. You think more highly of me than a man people have compared to Hitler. -Paul

[2004-10-21 18:05:19] - Mel: Cobb is the green party candidate. You like him. -Paul

[2004-10-21 18:04:59] - Paul: I don't even know who Cobb is, so I don't know if he/she is better than Kerry or not.  I better google...  -mel

[2004-10-21 18:04:14] - Paul: Nader, Cobb (who is this?), Badnarik.  -mel

[2004-10-21 18:03:35] - Paul: Well I definitely prefer you over Bush.  -mel

[2004-10-21 18:02:57] - Mel: Good God, you can't possibly think that I would be a good candidate. Haven't you been listening to a thing I've said on this message board? -Paul

[2004-10-21 18:02:08] - Mel: What third parties are on the ballot in California? -Paul

[2004-10-21 18:02:04] - Paul: Basically, I want Kerry to win over Bush, no question.  I don't like Bush at all.  But I'm not sure I necessarily think Kerry is the best candidate (if we include third party).  Paul, maybe I should write you in.    -mel

[2004-10-21 17:59:29] - Paul: Haha.  Hey, I might vote third party anyway.  Gotta think about it.  California is "Kerry-safe" anyway.  -mel

[2004-10-21 17:58:02] - Mel: Ok, good. I'm glad somebody at least understands how I would feel. I'll tell you what, if Bush wins Virginia by one vote I'll promise to vote Democrat next time to make it up to you. Deal? -Paul

[2004-10-21 17:56:48] - aba: very nice link.  Lots of fun info to look at.    -mel

[2004-10-21 17:56:20] - paul: Yes, it would feel wrong to vote for Bush (to me) even if it didn't matter.  So I see where you're coming from.  -mel

[2004-10-21 17:54:31] - Paul: ok cool.  Well I hadn't even considered the possibility until today anyway.  Thanks anyway.    -mel

[2004-10-21 17:53:39] - aba: oh yeah, that was me.  -mel

[2004-10-21 17:53:32] - aba: hey!! are you still around on the message board??  Its been forever since I talked to you.

[2004-10-21 17:27:01] - Pierce + Mel: Would either of you swap your votes with  a Bush supporter? Wouldn't you feel really wrong voting for Bush even if you knew the vote totals were going to end up the same anyway? -paul

[2004-10-21 17:22:58] - Pierce: That's true, although I'm still undecided on if I really prefer Kerry to Bush or not. I really can't give you a good reason why I would be uneasy doing this (other than the fact that it's probably illegal) except it would feel very VERY wrong to vote for Kerry, even if I knew Mel was voting for Badnarik for me. -Paul

[2004-10-21 17:18:28] - Paul: if you do decide to vote at all, you do get a distinct advantage swapping with mel if you dislike Bush more than Kerry.  Swapping would cost Badnarik absolutely nothing, but you'd also get to specify your opinion on the "lesser of two evils" vote.  It'd be like you get a limited version of IRV. - pierce

[2004-10-21 17:06:02] - I know these things probably do tend to influence people, but it just seems so dumb. "I'm going to vote for Kerry because he was born here!" "I voted for a Bush for governor so I guess I have to vote for his brother for president". Craziness. -Paul

[2004-10-21 17:04:45] - It's funny to read some of the state descriptions how Kerry has hopes for Colorado because he was born in an army hospital there and Bush has hopes for Florida because his brother is governor. -Paul

[2004-10-21 16:53:11] - aba: True enough. Still, I think the Kerry campaign has given up on Virginia considering the lack of attention they are giving it. Probably wise since I don't think he has much of a chance of carrying it. -Paul

[2004-10-21 16:47:19] - yeah, but if you click on the state, you see that ford got 49.3% of the va vote while carter got 48%.  very close.  -  aba

[2004-10-21 16:37:06] - aba: Damn, Virginia really sticks out going for Gerald Ford instead of Jimmy Carter in 1976. -Paul

[2004-10-21 16:34:42] - Mel: Adding on another layer of iffiness and voting for somebody I really don't like on top of it all (even if the end result might be the same) is just too much. I'm sure you could find somebody through one of those vote swapping sites if you were interested though. -Paul

[2004-10-21 16:32:44] - Mel: Sorry, I've given it some thought and I don't think it's something I would do. At least not now. I'm already leery enough with the whole "voting gives approval to the legitimacy of the government" that I've considered not voting at all. -Paul

[2004-10-21 16:29:36] - http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/shared/spl/hi/americas/04/vote_usa/map/html/default.stm  lets you look at past election results in a pretty format - aba

[2004-10-21 16:28:12] - va has voted republican for the past 40 years or so although the margin has been pretty tight lately  -  aba

[2004-10-21 15:47:42] - Mel: I'll have to think about it more. -Paul

[2004-10-21 15:46:57] - Although now that I think about it, it seems fairly selfish for me to be saying that I refuse to do you a favor even though it ends up not hurting me at all but would benefit you... -Paul

[2004-10-21 15:45:43] - Mel: You would have to bribe me (and cutting my grass isn't enough considering I have no guarantee you will ever be in Virginia ). A Badnarik vote in California is worth exactly the same to me as a Badnarik vote in Virginia whereas your candidate would actually be getting something out of the exchange. -Paul

[2004-10-21 15:44:00] - Mel: Even though it does absolutely nothing to help my candidate but could possibly help yours? -Paul

[2004-10-21 15:43:47] - Paul: Gotta go again (unfortunately), but I'm very interested in your answer.  Because it is something I would actually consider.  -mel

[2004-10-21 15:42:33] - Paul: or would I have to bribe you by offering to cut your grass the next time I'm in VA?    -mel

[2004-10-21 15:41:58] - Paul: just a thought...  -mel

[2004-10-21 15:41:40] - Paul: for example, would you swap votes with me?  kerry in VA for badnarik in CA?    -mel

[2004-10-21 14:40:06] - Mel: I think in it's current incarnation, I wouldn't do it because it seems a little too much like cheating for some reason. Kinda like if somebody gives away all their money right before going bankrupt in Monopoly. -Paul

[2004-10-21 14:38:26] - Mel: Virginia, from everything I've heard, is fairly strong Bush territory. Would I swap votes? It depends a lot on the situation. Is it certain that the other guy will vote how I want him to? Who does he want me to vote for? Etc. -Paul

[2004-10-21 14:36:52] - Mel: I'm not so sure it's so clear. What if you trade your vote away for the promise of somebody cutting your grass. You can bribe people with stuff other than money. -Paul

[2004-10-21 14:34:17] - Paul: lunchtime.  talk to you you after.  -mel

[2004-10-21 14:29:08] - looks like Virginia is close but favoring Bush.    -mel

[2004-10-21 14:28:46] - Paul: hey, so would you personally swap votes?  -mel

[2004-10-21 14:27:52] - Paul: hey, what do the polls look like in Virginia?  Isn't it fairly close?  CA will definitely vote Kerry.  -mel

[2004-10-21 14:25:57] - http://votepair.org/  VotePair.org.  They aren't nonpartisan though, the organization wants to elect Kerry.  -mel

[2004-10-21 14:23:58] - Paul: As long as money isn't involved.  That's a clear distinction, right?  -mel

[2004-10-21 14:21:32] - Mel: But if you're allowed to trade it for a promise of a vote... can you trade it for a promise of something else? -Paul

[2004-10-21 14:19:22] - http://www.wired.com/news/business/0,1367,64777,00.html  Wired article on 2004 Vote Swapping.  -mel

[2004-10-21 14:17:43] - Paul: hmm.  Well it's wrong to trade your vote for money because that opens up the election to being determined by money.  Haha.  Like it isn't already...  -mel

[2004-10-21 14:15:36] - Mel: http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=pecuniary Of or relating to money -Paul

[2004-10-21 14:15:28] - pecuniary: relating to money; monetary.  ok. (via the define: tool in google)  -mel

[2004-10-21 14:14:17] - Paul: why that would be "in return for a pecuniary or other benefit."    hey what's a pecuniary anyway?  -mel

[2004-10-21 14:12:52] - If it's ok to trade your vote for another vote. What's wrong with trading it for a sandwhich or $5? -Paul

[2004-10-21 14:12:15] - Mel: I think it does open up a can of worms though. Mainly in making sure somebody actually votes how they say they are going to vote and it also raises the issue of essentially trading your vote for something. -Paul

[2004-10-21 14:10:45] - paul: so I'm reading the vote-trading article.  I like the idea...-mel

[2004-10-21 14:07:04] - Mel: Ah, ok. Well, we get the paper version of the Washington Post at home so if I remember, then I'll check out her column. -Paul

[2004-10-21 14:03:58] - Paul: We used to read the WashingtonPost together when I lived at my Dad's home.  Before I moved 3000 miles away.  Now I read the LA Times at home.  -mel

[2004-10-21 14:02:50] - Paul: I understand.  well ok if you ever read the paper version check it out, I find her humorous.  Carolyn Hax used to have a column every Sunday.  but she got popular so she has columns more often now.  -mel

[2004-10-21 14:02:21] - Mel: I probably should have an illogic fondness for it too considering I was a Washington Post paperboy. How does it remind you of your Dad's home? -Paul

[2004-10-21 14:01:25] - I'm not talking to myself.  riiiiiight....  -mel

[2004-10-21 14:01:23] - I dunno, if it were ever really important for me to read something on WashingtonPost.com, I would probably register. I just don't feel that there is ever a good reason for me to bother. -Paul

[2004-10-21 14:01:02] - hah

[2004-10-21 14:00:53] - Mel: I have a somewhat illogic fondness for washingtonpost.com.    reminds me of my Dad's home.  -mel

[2004-10-21 13:58:04] - Mel: Mostly, although I probably have registered to read other things. I have a somewhat illogical dislike of WashingtonPost.com specifically doing it for some reason. Probably because I can get better news information almost anywhere else for free. -Paul

[2004-10-21 13:55:48] - Paul: so it's on principle that you won't read stuff you have to register for.  right?  -mel

[2004-10-21 13:29:57] - bugmenot.com: I know there are plenty of ways of getting around it. Putting in fake data, using somebody else's username, etc. This is less of a "I can't do it" and more of a "I refuse to do it" kinda of thing. -Paul

[2004-10-21 13:28:45] - Travis: Ah, boondocks. I miss that comic strip, I should start reading it again. -Paul

[2004-10-21 13:25:58] - paul: bugmenot.com

[2004-10-21 13:24:31] - http://images.ucomics.com/comics/bo/2004/bo041021.gif speaking of the electoral college... - travis

[2004-10-21 13:18:01] - Mel: Yeah, you'll probably like that article since it's pretty much about how to get around the electoral college. -Paul

[2004-10-21 13:17:07] - Mel: Well, if it's a washingtonpost article, then I probably can't/won't read it because you probably have to be registered to read their articles now and I refuse to register. -Paul

[2004-10-21 13:15:05] - Paul: Gotta go for a few minutes.  Back soon.  I want to read that vote swapping article you posted... Seems really interesting since some states are pretty much decided anyway but other states are too close to call.  -mel

[2004-10-21 13:13:50] - Paul: She writers an advice column for people under 30.  She's really straight up with people and in general I really like her advice.  I think she writes about three columns per week.  Her ex-husband draws cartoon to accompany them and they are often really funny.    The column is called "Tell Me About It."  -mel

[2004-10-21 13:11:34] - Mel: I've never even heard of her. What does she write about? -Paul

[2004-10-21 13:10:31] - Paul: vote-swapping?!  Hey that's an interesting idea...  -mel

[2004-10-21 13:09:48] - hey, do you guys ever read Carolyn Hax's column at the Washington Post?  I like her, I think she's funny and honest.  I've been reading her column for about seven years now.  -mel

[2004-10-21 13:08:59] - The advice colum today at Salon.com (It's called since you asked) is titled "I flunked out of Caltech grad school."  -mel

[2004-10-21 13:08:11] - Travis: I totally agree (that the most recent events usually have a bias) but it is pretty interesting just how large the margin is between the Yankees collapse and the next closest option. I don't know if I've EVER seen a gap that big in a serious poll with multiple options. -Paul

[2004-10-21 13:05:49] - http://www.orlandoweekly.com/news/Story.asp?ID=4638 Swap the vote. -Paul

[2004-10-21 13:02:43] - http://proxy.espn.go.com/chat/sportsnation/polling?event_id=942 gah, it's so stupid to put up polls like this immediately after the event because obviously the one that just happened will be the highest voted - travis

[2004-10-21 13:01:23] - Mel: np. It's how I try to keep somewhat up to date with recent computer hardware developments. -Paul

[2004-10-21 13:00:03] - Paul: cool site, thanks.    -mel

[2004-10-21 11:56:54] - http://science.slashdot.org/science/04/10/21/1421251.shtml work in warmer weather.  ~a

[2004-10-21 11:17:39] - Aaron: I don't use my VT email address anymore. Do you know my Yahoo address? FirstName, underscore, LastName at Yahoo.com -Paul

[2004-10-21 11:08:24] - paul: Do you still have your VT address? Is it pessen? I haven't emailed you from work before - aaron

[2004-10-21 11:07:33] - Hehe. I've done the "imitate the person you're talking to" thing once or twice. There's this one guy in my office who used to maintain unbreaking eye-contact and I tried to do the same with him during a long conversation. I busted out laughing after about 10 seconds and he couldn't figure out what was funny. It was very awkward. - aaron

[2004-10-21 11:06:10] - a || aaron: Can either of you email me your address so I can mapquest it and find the fastest way there from here? -Paul

[2004-10-21 09:32:20] - paul:  looks like that tax article has been /.'d. - mig

[2004-10-20 21:29:03] - Mel: http://arstechnica.com/ I don't know if you already know of this site, but I think you might enjoy it. -Paul

[2004-10-20 19:59:43] - http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A37478-2004Oct16.html?nav=lb  Offbeat interview questions.  Its washingtonpost, so you might have to login.  -mel

[2004-10-20 19:13:56] - http://www.theregister.co.uk/2004/10/19/microsoft_dualcore_love/  Microsoft won't charge double for dual core chips.  Good.  That would be stupid (IMHO) if they did.  -mel

[2004-10-20 18:57:07] - http://www.webcpa.com/article.cfm?articleid=7812 IRS employees not paying their taxes? How deliciously ironic. -Paul

[2004-10-20 18:45:57] - Wow, I think I'm all alone in the office. Everybody else went out to go watch the Red Sox/Yankees game. -Paul

[2004-10-20 18:15:48] - Aaron: So it was you that left the message? -Paul

[2004-10-20 18:13:35] - Aaron: Call waiting? What does that have to do with it? My cell phone was off. -Paul

[2004-10-20 18:10:54] - paul: Sorry, i didn't know you didn't have call waiting! I did a bad job leaving messages - aaron

[2004-10-20 17:54:29] - Unless, of course, it was Adrian, which was my other guess and would also redirect me to a voice-mail box which used Aaron's name. Hmmm.... -Paul

[2004-10-20 17:37:04] - aaron: You know, in order to figure out it was you I actually had to tell my voice mail I wanted to send a reply and then see what mailbox it tried sending it to. -Paul

[2004-10-20 17:26:47] - paul: check your cell phone

[2004-10-20 16:31:53] - mel: another one I've seen is this >.< which I think is a smiley, mebbe squinted eyes. Not sure -dave

[2004-10-20 16:30:38] - mel: I'm a product of playing MMORPGS ^_^ -dave

[2004-10-20 16:29:55] - mel: Hehe, sorry, yeah it's a face. The other one I use sometimes is 0_o or o_0 which is face with a raised eyebrow - like being confused or finding something strange -dave

[2004-10-20 16:25:15] - Mel: Alrighty, "see" you tomorrow. -Paul

[2004-10-20 16:22:26] - Paul: alright, see you tomorrow,  I'll go do some work.    -mel

[2004-10-20 16:15:05] - Paul: ok cool.    -mel

[2004-10-20 16:14:01] - Mel: Even assuming that the link I sent you is somehow official, I don't think many people follow the rules in there. -Paul

[2004-10-20 16:13:20] - Paul: oh whoops.  That page says that usually girls smile like this ^.^  "a male smiles ^_^ with an open mouth showing his teeth. to women, however, it seems to be misbecoming to show this much hilarious emotion."  so I already used them incorrectly.    -mel

[2004-10-20 16:10:50] - Paul: cool, thanks.  I'm reading.  ^_^  -mel

[2004-10-20 16:10:05] - mel:  it's supposed to be a face.

[2004-10-20 16:10:01] - paul: I love google, it's a great tool.  But you have to know the right words to look up.  Or its like trying to look up a word you don't know how to spell in the dictionary.  -mel

[2004-10-20 16:09:48] - Mel: You can try asking me and there is about a 50% chance I will be able to explain it to you. Although I don't know if they will be funny even if you understand it. -Paul

[2004-10-20 16:09:13] - Mel: http://www.intelligenzschmiede.com/Anime-Smilies/Anime-Smilies.htm Try this. -Paul

[2004-10-20 16:09:12] - Paul: Me either.  I have been wondering about them for a long time but never had a chance to ask someone about them.  -mel

[2004-10-20 16:08:34] - Mel: Most of the time I do, but there are a lot that I don't get at all. -Paul

[2004-10-20 16:07:21] - dave: are they Japanese emoticons?  I could google but I wasn't sure what to look up...  -mel

[2004-10-20 16:00:06] - dave: I'm not always sure what they all mean..    -mel

[2004-10-20 15:59:40] - dave: hey, where can I find some sort of guide to the ^_^ shorthand?  -mel

[2004-10-20 15:58:59] - Paul: haha.  I didn't get it either.  But I usually assume you guys do.  -mel

[2004-10-20 15:41:28] - Vinnie: I don't get half the inside jokes that people use anymore, so I just don't concern myself with it. -Paul

[2004-10-20 15:34:52] - I don't get the grumble thing - vinnie

[2004-10-20 15:28:12] - paul:  girl, give me a grumblebreak.

[2004-10-20 15:27:04] - Dave: -Paul

[2004-10-20 15:25:14] - Paul: what, I'm supposed to want to talk to you? ^_^ -dave

[2004-10-20 14:52:50] - And now message board traffic screeches to a halt. -Paul

[2004-10-20 14:39:14] - Mel: bye bye. ^_^ -dave

[2004-10-20 14:32:57] - Mel: Enjoy your lunch. -Paul

[2004-10-20 14:31:53] - time for lunch over here on the West Coast.  See you guys a little later.  -mel

[2004-10-20 14:30:38] - Paul: ok so the trucks were definitely used I think.  That makes more sense.  They looked nice so I assumed they were new, but that doesn't really mean anything.  They probably just got a good car wash.    -mel

[2004-10-20 14:30:24] - Dave: Hey, my Echo was worth every penny of the $14k I paid for it. -Paul

[2004-10-20 14:29:37] - Mel: Also, car dealerships tend to advertise used cars outside with big numbers more so than new cars I think. -Paul

[2004-10-20 14:29:07] - Paul: what, aren't all new cars that cheap? ^_^ Your Echo is way overpriced! ^_^ -dave

[2004-10-20 14:27:47] - dave: They were probably used then.    -mel

[2004-10-20 14:27:11] - mel: yeah, seems suspicious because 6k sounds like a reasonable used-car price -dave

[2004-10-20 14:25:54] - Paul: I might be wrong, seriously.  I'll check again and let you know.  Maybe they were used.  It was way too cheap.  -mel

[2004-10-20 14:25:28] - Intel knows people like numbers.  But in the absense of increasing clock speed, they have created a new numbering system to sell to consumers.  -mel

[2004-10-20 14:25:20] - Mel: You sure you didn't miscount the number of zeroes? I'm not so sure you can buy ANY new car or truck in America for much less than $10k -Paul

[2004-10-20 14:24:17] - Paul: They were new.  I have to walk by to check again because I sort of don't believe myself.  -mel

[2004-10-20 14:23:54] - http://www.anandtech.com/cpuchipsets/showdoc.html?i=2012  Examples of Intel's numbering system.  -mel

[2004-10-20 14:22:57] - Mel: They were used trucks I assume? -Paul

[2004-10-20 14:22:19] - Paul + Dave: http://www.intel.com/products/processor_number/  -mel

[2004-10-20 14:21:24] - Paul: I read an article where an Intel spokesperson compared the naming convention to BMWs'.    -mel

[2004-10-20 14:21:11] - Mel

[2004-10-20 14:20:28] - Paul: It's just a number. -mel

[2004-10-20 14:20:23] - Paul: Basically, they kinda peg the number to 'performance' like AMD does. -dave

[2004-10-20 14:20:14] - dave: yes.  So they can smoothly shift away from increasing clock speed.    -mel

[2004-10-20 14:19:55] - Paul: it's just a number that's a combination of clock speed, cache, and some other things too I believe -dave

[2004-10-20 14:19:41] - Paul: Hey, I walked by a Ford car lot this past weekend and they were selling pick up trucks (with a cab) for $6000!!  How is that even possible?  -mel

[2004-10-20 14:19:20] - Dave: Does the 570 actually stand for the size of the cache or is it just a number? -Paul

[2004-10-20 14:18:24] - Paul: so basically, Intel has now made a naming scheme somewhat like AMDs -dave

[2004-10-20 14:18:02] - Mel: Well then if you ask me, the Japanese companies probably deserve to be doing better. -Paul

[2004-10-20 14:17:49] - paul: Intel has chnged its naming scheme. So now it's a Pentium 4, 570 as opposed to a Pentium 4, 3.5 Ghz. the cache, etc are factored into the model number -dave

[2004-10-20 14:15:33] - Paul: The Japanese companies don't have pensions like American car companies do.  That automatically makes a big difference in terms of margins.  -mel

[2004-10-20 14:15:31] - Mel: Me neither. Just seems kinda strange to be giving out all these extra benefits when the company is losing so much money. -Paul

[2004-10-20 14:14:41] - Same article.  "Unfortunately, there is probably little that GM could do to trim benefits for the current population of retirees."  -mel

[2004-10-20 14:13:31] - Paul: Well my company has an exclusion for weight loss medication/surgery for example.  And hair loss too.  You could have an exclusion for erectile dysfunction.  I don't know if you can add an exclusion to people's existing pension though.  I have no idea how that works...  -mel

[2004-10-20 14:12:16] - Paul: yeah, I guess it does make sense.  I was surprised though. -mel

[2004-10-20 14:11:35] - Same article.  "All told, GM's underfunded pension and other post-retirement and employee (OPEB) benefit obligation increased a whopping 27.6% last year, to $76.8 billion from $60.2 billion at year-end 2001. For perspective, the shortfall is nearly 20 times GM's average annual net income of $3.9 billion for the past seven years."  -mel

[2004-10-20 14:11:29] - Mel: "In order to work for GM, you must be able to achieve an erection without the use of medication" -Paul

[2004-10-20 14:10:48] - Mel: I think I've heard that about other car companies too. Something like how the most routinely profitable part of a lot of car companies is their finance division. Makes some sense, I guess. -Paul

[2004-10-20 14:09:48] - Paul: yeah, they should add an exclusion for that.    -mel

[2004-10-20 14:09:27] - http://www.gold-eagle.com/gold_digest_03/fry050503.html  "Most folks think of GM as a car company. But it's really a finance company in disguise. Of GM's three primary businesses, only GMAC - also known as the Financial and Insurance Operations unit (FIO) - has been the consistent leader in providing net income."  -mel

[2004-10-20 14:08:32] - Mel: Well, that looks like a good way to save a couple of thousand dollars right there. Stop buying Viagra for your employees. -Paul

[2004-10-20 14:06:47] - Paul: I can't find a source to quote right now.  But I once read that the largest purchaser of Viagra medication in the US is GM.  Because they have so many people on pensions and using GM medical insurance.  I thought this was really funny.  but it also gives you an idea of the fixed cost that GM has to deal with that cuts into their margins.  -me

[2004-10-20 14:04:38] - Paul: It's tough to make quick changes in your strategic direction when you are a big company (like Intel or GM).  -mel

[2004-10-20 14:04:33] - Mel: GM has been around for awhile, I'm sure they'll find a way to fix things. -Paul

[2004-10-20 14:02:48] - Paul: aww.  My best friend's Dad works for GM Europe.  So for his sake I hope GM does better.  -mel

[2004-10-20 14:01:32] - http://news.com.com/Intel+to+reunite+notebook,+desktop+chip+architectures/2100-1006_3-5181256.html  More Merom info.  2007 mentioned again as the release date.  -mel

[2004-10-20 14:01:03] - Mel: Could be worse. They could be GM employees. -Paul

[2004-10-20 14:00:19] - Paul: Merging desktop and mobile will probably mean a loss of jobs.  Because they are two seperate divisions right now.  It will be good for Intel.  Bad for the American chip engineers.  -mel

[2004-10-20 13:59:13] - Paul: yes.  maybe the 2007 wait will be worth it.  Like I said we'll see...  Those Haifa engineers have their work cut out for them.  -mel

[2004-10-20 13:58:27] - Mel: If Merom is faster and cooler, it'll be an overclocker's dream. Stick a water cooling system on one of those puppies and crank it up to see how fast you can get it going. -Paul

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