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[2005-06-21 15:34:49] - it's $160 for an H2 Hummer, for reference -dave
[2005-06-21 15:34:22] - what surprised the company (but in retrospect shouldn't be all that surprising) is that fuel-efficient car owners buy it, but not SUV owners -dave
[2005-06-21 15:32:32] - http://www.cnn.com/2005/AUTOS/funonwheels/06/17/car_smog_pay/index.html company allows drivers to pay for the smog they produce, which gets reduced from other sources (power plants etc), so that driving their car has a zero net effect on the environment -dave
[2005-06-21 12:44:34] - heh heh heh
[2005-06-21 12:38:38] - Amy: All the toast I can eat? Wow, what a deal. You can call me anything you want then. -Paul
[2005-06-21 12:38:33] - amy: use <small> ~a
[2005-06-21 12:38:09] - aww no font tags .( -amy
[2005-06-21 12:38:03] - Paul: all the toast you can eat! <font size=-2>(you must supply toaster)</font> -amy
[2005-06-21 12:33:02] - Amy: Depends. What is the pay/benefits like? -Paul
[2005-06-21 12:30:15] - Paul: does this mean you won't be my minion .( -amy
[2005-06-21 12:25:51] - Amy: Might be easier to find carvers if you didn't refer to them as minions. -Paul
[2005-06-21 12:08:35] - Paul + Aaron: hmm, you could be onto something... instead of finding fellow band members (potentially difficult), i'd need a bunch of minions to carve funny faces out of toast (not so difficult). now all i need is a toaster... -amy
[2005-06-21 12:08:28] - mig: He put the human victory cigar in at the end of game four. -Paul
[2005-06-21 12:08:09] - Aaron: Oh, I didn't mean to suggest that. I thought Amy's current job was something to do with computers, not starting a band... -Paul
[2005-06-21 12:05:13] - paul: And that it takes a negative amount of time
- aaron[2005-06-21 12:05:03] - paul: i'm sure larry brown would forfeit before putting darko in the game. - mig
[2005-06-21 12:04:28] - paul: Your statement suggests that it's easier to start a successful business than it is to start a successful band - aaron
[2005-06-21 11:27:18] - Amy: You could probably make a lot of money with an ebay business. Might even have more free time to do your creative endeavors. -Paul
[2005-06-21 10:45:07] - ugh. they'll find anybody's face in toast these days. makes me want to start an ebay business: http://www.ananova.com/news/story/sm_1436603.html -amy
[2005-06-21 09:58:01] - Dave: I read that too and I also loved that last sentence. How sweet would it be if the game somehow came down to Darko and Rasho needing to play a big role? I'm still waiting for a game where one of the big stars fouls out. Has anybody fouled out yet? -Paul
[2005-06-21 07:58:39] - I like this "And lastly, and maybe most importantly, I want seven because I have a dream, and it goes like this: Seventh game, seven overtimes, 132 personal fouls, and just two men left standing. That's right: Darko and Rasho for all the marbles." -dave
[2005-06-21 07:58:22] - http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=neel/050620 reasons for wanting a seventh game -dave
[2005-06-20 16:05:07] - Paul: yeah, I thought it was odd -dave
[2005-06-20 15:48:57] - Dave: Interesting, the areas involved with emotion were deactivated? I wouldn't have expected that. -Paul
[2005-06-20 15:45:38] - "When women genuinely achieved an orgasm, areas of the brain involved in fear and emotion were deactivated. Those areas stayed alert however when women were faking it." -dave
[2005-06-20 15:45:23] - http://www.cnn.com/2005/HEALTH/06/20/fertility.orgasm.reut/index.html faked orgasms don't fool brain scan. No, really? -dave
[2005-06-20 15:20:39] - http://www.cnn.com/2005/TECH/biztech/06/20/techjobdecline.ap/index.html US computer programming jobs a thing of the past? -dave
[2005-06-20 14:31:51] - Dave: Now that seems more like Dave type of humor to me.
-Paul[2005-06-20 14:29:49] - Paul: hehe, then you'll be surprised to know that I also found the exchange between the Sports Guy and the Sports Girl in that article(?) extremely amusing as well -dave
[2005-06-20 14:23:36] - http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=simmons/050620 The Sports Guy on Horry. -Paul
[2005-06-20 14:08:17] - a: I know, I just thought it was weird coming from Dave. -Paul
[2005-06-20 13:54:56] - paul: that was the point. ~a
[2005-06-20 13:54:02] - Dave: You do realize that it's an incredibly sexist comment, right?
-Paul[2005-06-20 13:07:09] - Paul: Yeah, I especially like the one about Danica Patrick (muting the tv etc) -dave
[2005-06-20 12:38:16] - Dave: I <3 the Sports Guy. -Paul
[2005-06-20 12:08:08] - http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=simmons/050601&num=0 some of these are pretty funny -dave
[2005-06-20 10:29:04] - a: no, just leave it at home. thanks - lori
[2005-06-20 09:54:45] - Pierce: Did you mean "that they shouldn't"? -Paul
[2005-06-20 09:27:34] - do you want me to do anything with the bag? ~a
[2005-06-20 09:24:39] - lori: former ~a
[2005-06-20 09:16:33] - http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20050619-5013.html Yahoo chatrooms busted for profiting from sex -dave
[2005-06-20 09:10:03] - http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20050618-5010.html an amusing excerpt of the oral arguments in the Supreme Court case, MGM vs. Grokster -dave
[2005-06-20 09:02:21] - http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20050617-5008.html?57666 UK under cyberattack, Israel hit by corporate espionage -dave
[2005-06-20 08:55:41] - http://www.marketwatch.com/news/story.asp?guid=%7BAD21C0B5%2DF6BC%2D4F77%2D9465%2DAF7A8B1C4136%7D&siteid=mktw&dist= women to drive game growth? -dave
[2005-06-20 08:20:49] - adrian: DId I leave my bag with my clothes and book in it at home or drive off with them on my roof? Those seem to be the only 2 options... - lori
[2005-06-20 07:50:28] - http://tv.msn.com/tv/article.aspx?news=194599>1=6657 Miss American pageant to become more like reality tv? -dave
[2005-06-19 15:28:46] - fyi: http://www.livejournal.com/community/tjpeople/452242.html - aba
[2005-06-19 00:48:50] - Man, where is everybody? -stoned
[2005-06-17 19:34:04] - and god, how expensive can it be to effectively greenscreen as simple a shot as someone's head against a moving background? - pierce
[2005-06-17 19:32:59] - Paul: no, I've not seen season 5. And yes, while the special effects have usually been mediocre, they've usually wisely taken that as a sign that they should create huge all-CGI characters which look about on par with stuff Ian Dale made by himself when we were in high school. - pierce
[2005-06-17 17:24:25] - amy: leaving early is not an option for me in this job - sorry hon - lori
[2005-06-17 17:16:43] - Pierce: I don't know if you've seen the fifth season yet, but I think that's got the best acting/special effects of all the seasons. -Paul
[2005-06-17 17:16:18] - Pierce: If you think the acting is bad in season three, than you'll probably think it's worse in season four. As for the special effects, I think they've always been rather mediocre in the Buffy/Angel series. -Paul
[2005-06-17 16:37:47] - incidentally, I just recognized that actor I mentioned before as Pam's fiancé in The Office. He's a pretty good comedic actor. - pierce
[2005-06-17 16:35:40] - paul: yes, though I have to say that the acting was simply atrocious a lot of the time. and some of the special effects sequences SPOILERS (Connor riding the bus, the monster that Connor killed) were pretty cruddy too. - pierce
[2005-06-17 15:50:19] - Amy: Some people might be willing, but they might not be checking the message board right now. It's been a slow day. -Paul
[2005-06-17 15:49:28] - Heh I guess that is a no, well I thought I'd ask for future reference, anyway. -Amy
[2005-06-17 15:31:27] - If I had any semblance of DDR clothes on me, I'd be asking if anyone wants to leave early and go play DDR right now. Out of curiosity, would anybody take me up on that? .) -Amy
[2005-06-17 14:46:53] - Pierce: Cool. Did you like it? -Paul
[2005-06-17 14:30:23] - paul: just finished S3 last night. - pierce
[2005-06-17 14:08:41] - http://www.storewars.org/flash/index.html Some of you might enjoy this. -Paul
[2005-06-17 13:48:30] - Pierce: How far are you in Angel? Are you done with season 3? Into season 4? -paul
[2005-06-17 13:48:01] - Pierce: I think you have too much free time on your hands if you're doing such random imdb exploration.
I vaguely remember the character from The Replacements and I suppose it is a little strange to think of him as Skip. -Paul[2005-06-17 13:45:38] - Paul: random imdb exploration... and I guess I find it funny because skip has so much makeup as to make him almost completely unidentifiable as a human, so it's weird to be able to associate a human face to him. Kind of like when I saw a photo of Lorne without the makeup on. - pierce
[2005-06-17 13:09:48] - Pierce: I've seen season 3 of Angel and I don't know why you find it funny either.
Better yet, how did you find this out? -Paul[2005-06-17 12:35:30] - dave: I thought this was an interesting post on the ARS boards - "This ought to be interesting when Microsoft takes itself to court over distributing illegal copies of it's own software."
- aaron[2005-06-17 12:30:50] - heh, I don't know why I find this funny, but (people who have seen season 3 of Angel): the guy who plays the demon "Skip" was the deaf football player in The Replacements. - pierce
[2005-06-17 11:28:25] - Go BoA!
-Paul[2005-06-17 10:58:16] - also of interest, apparently there's a legal limit to the amount of US deposits a single bank can hold (10%) -dave
[2005-06-17 10:57:43] - http://www.marketwatch.com/news/story.asp?guid=%7B3181DF55%2D90E7%2D424C%2D8BCE%2D4AC41156D748%7D&siteid=mktw&dist= Bank of America buys 9% stake in Chinese bank -dave
[2005-06-17 08:26:41] - apparently the hackers exploited the demo laptop -dave
[2005-06-17 08:25:49] - http://news.com.com/Microsoft+meets+the+hackers/2009-1002_3-5747813.html?tag=nefd.lede MS invites hackers to Redmond for two day event -dave
[2005-06-17 08:16:38] - http://www.gamespot.com/news/2005/06/15/news_6127535.html Vin Diesel to star in Hitman movie, possibly game -dave
[2005-06-17 08:11:33] - http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20050616-5005.html?61617 MS releases P2P program, Avalanche -dave
[2005-06-16 16:42:17] - aaron: it's because of all the people who commute from shelbyville. - pierce
[2005-06-16 15:28:21] - vinnie: Hmm - sure, let's go. Honestly, traffic down to SF mall is way better than traffic home at that time of day. - aaron
[2005-06-16 15:11:33] - aaron: Adrian is in California until after midnight tonight - lori
[2005-06-16 15:00:59] - aaron: if he isn't, do you still want to go? I'm fine either way - vinnie
[2005-06-16 14:58:24] - amy: is adrian really not around? - aaron
[2005-06-16 14:56:12] - lori: wait a sec. adrian is not around, right? does this mean the only ddr-goers today are potentially aaron + vin? -amy
[2005-06-16 14:02:45] - lori: (oops that was me before) 1 of my reasons is fun (my new computer has arrived, and i need to drop it off at home) 1 is eh (not enough sleep --> tired --> bad for ddr) and 1 is stupid (i can't find the change of clothes i packed last night) -amy
[2005-06-16 14:01:58] - lori: i heard you were away this weekend. i'm glad you got your chance. i am sure she appreciated it.
[2005-06-16 13:38:47] - http://www.zwire.com/site/news.cfm?BRD=1147&dept_id=555638&newsid=14692380&PAG=461&rfi=9 Pagans struggle with religous stereotypes -Paul
[2005-06-16 13:03:43] - mil millington strikes again - http://microurl.com/mil/sixsquared - lori
[2005-06-16 12:40:27] - amy: thanks. At least Adrian took me down to see her this weekend so I got to say goodbye. I hope your stupid reasons are at least fun ones! - lori
[2005-06-16 12:37:04] - lori: i'm sorry to hear about your grandmother .( *hugs* as for changing the DDR time, i would be fine putting it off until 6.20 or whenever. -amy
[2005-06-16 11:19:10] - ddr_people: I also can't make it - I'm dog-sitting while my folks are out of town for my grandmother's funeral. Also, if we continue to meet at 5:45, I won't be able to make it until at least 6:20 (prolly 6:30ish) since I don't get off the new job until 5:30 (yay tysons traffic) - lori
[2005-06-16 10:18:44] - Dave: I'm actually a bit surprised that the EU can't make anybody sell it. -Paul
[2005-06-16 10:18:05] - "HAYDEN stops him and IAN throws him out the window, a fall which no PARTIALLY ELECTROCUTED JEDI CAPABLE OF SUPER-JUMPING could possibly survive." See? Somebody else thought so too. -Paul
[2005-06-16 10:17:34] - Pierce: Funny link.
-Paul[2005-06-16 09:33:41] - ddr_people: i'm sorry, but for various stupid reasons (they are three-fold, in fact) i cannot make it today. -amy
[2005-06-16 07:39:36] - well, now it's made, and no one wants to sell it, hehe. And apparently, the EU can't really make anyone sell it -dave
[2005-06-16 07:38:59] - on the one hand, it's definitely good for the EU to keep a watchout for monopoly-practices, on the other hand, making MS make Windows XP N was kinda ridiculous IMO -dave
[2005-06-16 07:38:16] - http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20050615-4997.html?6647 OEMs unwilling to sell Windows XP N (without media player). Hehe, this is amusing -dave
[2005-06-16 00:09:26] - highly amusing abridged script for Revenge of the Sith. - pierce
[2005-06-15 17:39:23] - http://www.euobserver.com/?sid=9&aid=19331 "It is not possible for anyone to understand the full text" says the architect of the EU constitution. -Paul
[2005-06-15 15:54:23] - http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/06/15/AR2005061500780.html Alexandria to tax cell phones additional $3 per month -dave
[2005-06-15 15:39:36] - Dave: I've never read Snow Crash, although I've had many people recommend it to me. -Paul
[2005-06-15 15:32:15] - Paul: Snow Crash's implementation of the "protection" is probably more useful / desirable than what they actually made. It'd probably more difficult to fabricate, but doesn't seem implausible -dave
[2005-06-15 15:30:14] - Paul: wow, Wiki is really thorough, I remember the excerpt from Snow Crash -dave
[2005-06-15 14:58:01] - Aaron: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vagina_dentata -Paul
[2005-06-15 14:14:45] - Amy: Yeah, I don't think it's much for prevention since it doesn't seem to do anything until after the crime is committed anyway. -Paul
[2005-06-15 12:53:32] - It also seems like it may be ineffective in a gang rape situation, but then I suppose the device was intended more for tracking than for rape prevention. -amy
[2005-06-15 12:35:25] - Aaron: Sounds vaguely familiar in that I think I've heard of it before you mentioned it, but I don't know if it was something posted to the message board or not. -Paul
[2005-06-15 12:30:42] - paul: I remember there actually being a phobia which was specifically, "fear of a vagina with teeth". Wasn't that posted to this message board? - aaron
[2005-06-15 12:03:58] - Dave: You would think that if this thing caught on, then rapists would start checking beforehand then. -Paul
[2005-06-15 11:50:37] - paul: I guess they're just counting on the rapist not checking beforehand -dave
[2005-06-15 11:50:06] - mig: hah hah. I actually know what you're talking about too, because EQ2 had the same "problem" I believe -dave
[2005-06-15 11:49:26] - paul: although, it seems like it could be cirumvented -dave
[2005-06-15 11:48:28] - dave: geez, i've been playing WoW too much. when i read "chinese farmers", i thought the article was about something else... - mig
[2005-06-15 11:48:09] - paul: ouch, I wonder if they field tested the thing -dave
[2005-06-15 10:52:21] - http://www.iol.co.za/index.php?set_id=1&art_id=vn20050607063033640C157944 New device gives women teeth where it matters. -Paul
[2005-06-15 10:24:43] - Dave: I've only seen American Psycho and I heartily do not recommend it.
-Paul[2005-06-15 10:24:21] - Anybody vote in the primaries in Virginia yesterday? -Paul
[2005-06-15 10:16:30] - Paul: probably, I just haven't seen those movies ^_^ -dave
[2005-06-15 09:52:58] - Dave: Probably because it wasn't as great an example of his acting ability as American Psycho and the Machinist. -Paul
[2005-06-15 09:16:12] - I'm sad that when they reference Bale's past work, they don't list Equilibrium, I liked that movie -dave
[2005-06-15 09:15:01] - woah, Batman Begins is 141 minutes. -dave
[2005-06-15 09:03:46] - mig: it's also a chance to prove himself even more, now that everyone agrees he doesn't have all that much to work with -dave
[2005-06-15 09:02:38] - http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/06/14/AR2005061401542.html chinese farmers attacked -dave
[2005-06-14 15:39:43] - mig: Well, it is also where his girlfriend is at. -Paul
[2005-06-14 15:34:59] - paul: ugh, why would he want to go back to la? i guess $30 million is enough for him, then. - mig
[2005-06-14 14:00:21] - http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news?slug=ap-lakers-jackson&prov=ap&type=lgns The Zen Master is back in LA. -Paul
[2005-06-14 13:47:55] - Flagrant error?! - adrian
[2005-06-14 13:39:00] - Aaiiieeeeee!!!!! -mboard
[2005-06-14 13:28:04] - *** amy picks up mboard and flings it
[2005-06-14 11:57:17] - mig: Eh, it's just a slow day. I imagine it will pick up again eventually. -Paul
[2005-06-14 11:45:46] - i guess everybody's left the message board for dead. - mig
[2005-06-14 10:14:23] - Whoo, the message board is working again. -Paul
[2005-06-14 07:53:52] - I'm rather surprised that the school bus drivers don't do more, although I suppose they're occupied with driving...but still -dave
[2005-06-14 07:53:19] - http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/06/13/AR2005061301642.html sexual assault a problem on school buses? -dave
[2005-06-14 07:26:18] - http://news.com.com/IE7+being+developed+to+resist+spyware/2100-7355_3-5745044.html?tag=nefd.top IE7 to have "low rights" feature. In other words, the browser won't run with admin rights, to help try to prevent spyware -dave
[2005-06-14 00:26:16] - mel: i'm coming to the jpl tomorrow. will you be there? ~a
[2005-06-13 23:09:45] - bleh ~a
[2005-06-10 16:15:02] - Vinnie: No problem, thanks for telling us. -Paul
[2005-06-10 15:46:35] - basketball people: not going to be there again today. sorry. possibly not next week either, but I should be going regularly again after that - vinnie
[2005-06-10 14:38:18] - http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/06/09/AR2005060901729.html (White) Women We Love -Paul
[2005-06-10 13:43:30] - http://dsc.discovery.com/convergence/greatestamerican/greatestamerican.html Top 25 greatest Americans as voted by the public. -Paul
[2005-06-10 13:39:57] - http://www.news14charlotte.com/content/local_news/?ArID=95207&SecID=2 Officer runs over hit-and-run victim -Paul
[2005-06-10 12:34:29] - *** dave bows to miguel's wisdom
[2005-06-10 12:22:38] - mig: Yeah, I could probably come up with three perfectly reasonable, yet entirely different, definitions right now. -Paul
[2005-06-10 12:19:52] - of course, there is confusion over what people mean when they say "we are a christian nation". - mig
[2005-06-10 12:19:22] - just read the constitution. the answer is there in plain sight. - mig
[2005-06-10 12:18:57] - Paul: yeah, it's been pretty annoying when listening to this "christian nation" debate when both sides constantly bicker and argue over the founder's personal religious beliefs, since they are for the most part irrelevant to the debate. - mig
[2005-06-10 12:16:58] - Pierce: Well, I wouldn't say it's a moot point at all. But I would say that it isn't a good enough reason to think that America was intended to be a christian nation. -Paul
[2005-06-10 12:15:00] - dave+paul: and I'm not advancing or opposing adrian's viewpoint (if you interpereted it correctly), I'm just saying their actual religion is a moot point. - pierce
[2005-06-10 12:11:36] - Dave: That was the impression I got as well. -Paul
[2005-06-10 12:10:25] - pierce: my perception was that adrian was saying that the founding fathers weren't christian at all -dave
[2005-06-10 12:09:56] - pierce: I think all I was trying to say was that I thought a decent number of the "founding fathers" had christian or christian-like beliefs, and that inevitably, those beliefs did in fact color the documents they made -dave
[2005-06-10 12:08:37] - Pierce: Ah, ok. So you were just making an entirely different point.
-Paul[2005-06-10 12:08:32] - pierce: ahh ok, I thought you were talking about what the founding father's beliefs themselves were -dave
[2005-06-10 12:05:59] - And while I agree that people's beliefs (religious or not ) bias their philosophy, the point is that (I believe) the founding fathers wanted political discussion to resemble rational, philosophical debate rather than interpretation of dogma. - pierce
[2005-06-10 12:03:48] - I was referring to adrian's question, and the subsequent discussion, about how many of the founding fathers were Christian. And I was expanding the topic to refer to people who use the founders' church affiliations to claim that we were intentionally founded "under God", and thus that there shouldn't be a separation of church and state. - pierce
[2005-06-10 11:57:40] - pierce: and I think a person's religious beliefs colors their whole philosophical bias, so it really does end up having an impact anyways -dave
[2005-06-10 11:56:24] - pierce: ahh, nm. you said "general consensus" -dave
[2005-06-10 11:55:21] - pierce: and how do you know the beliefs of the founding fathers anyways? -dave
[2005-06-10 11:55:09] - Pierce: Were you just making a random point or were you using this to show why the woman's topic was inappropriate? -Paul
[2005-06-10 11:54:34] - pierce: in other words, I don't think your distinction between religion and religious philosophy is really any distinction at all -dave
[2005-06-10 11:54:07] - Pierce: I guess that's probably true. I'm not entirely sure what the difference between whether or not they spiritually believed in God is and what is has to do with the larger issue at hand. -Paul
[2005-06-10 11:53:26] - pierce: just a note, any religion can be described as being consistent with a philosophical framework that is given by some entity -dave
[2005-06-10 11:46:43] - But what those beliefs boiled down to was that the moral arguments made by the founders weren't true "because God says so", but rather because they are logically consistent in a philosophical framework (which they likely believe came from God). - pierce
[2005-06-10 11:44:05] - Paul: I think you're misunderstanding me. They weren't necessarily focused on secular philosophy in lieu of religion, but rather religious philosophy. Basically the tenets of deism. - pierce
[2005-06-10 11:37:13] - Pierce: If the founding fathers were just interested in talking philosophy, then why bother including reference to God at all? -Paul
[2005-06-10 11:34:54] - Pierce: I'm not sure you can really say that. There are a lot of references to God in the important documents regarding the founding of this country, more so than references to seperation of church and state. -Paul
[2005-06-10 11:31:07] - ...and so whether or not they believed in God in a spiritual way is irrelevant to understanding the philosophical basis of the constitution or other documents. - pierce
[2005-06-10 11:29:12] - From what I've gathered, it's hard to really tell for sure what religions the founding fathers subscribed to. But the general consensus is that they weren't Christians in the way they're referred to today, by people who claim we were formed "under God". By and large, they were philosophical about their beliefs rather than religious. - pierce
[2005-06-10 11:04:34] - Dave: Reminds me of the player's union for hockey.
-paul[2005-06-10 10:56:03] - hehe, it's kinda like, well, hey, you can demand whatever you want, but your costs are making us have to cut 25k jobs ^_^ -dave
[2005-06-10 10:55:40] - amusing piece of news - the union for auto-workers for GM is offering to renegotiate health-care. -dave
[2005-06-10 10:43:24] - a: Well, doesn't wikipedia say that a lot of them were raised Episcopalian? Isn't that christian? -Paul
[2005-06-10 10:30:45] - paul: true. but there is no positive proof that i can find (on wikipedia or elsewhere) that ANY of the founding fathers were christian (though i'll grant that there's not much proof against either). ~a
[2005-06-10 10:26:46] - a: Yes, but churches and religions also played a much larger role in people's lives in the past than they do now. Prayer in school is controversial now but it was a way of life in the past. -Paul
[2005-06-10 10:23:24] - most people have a hard time believing our founders didn't think america was one nation under god. it was the mccarthyists that feared the aetheist communists that thought america was one nation under god . . . and that was only like 50 years ago. ~a
[2005-06-10 10:22:43] - http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/06/09/AR2005060902098.html U.S. Won't Ask Firms to Help Current Smokers Quit. -Paul
[2005-06-10 10:18:57] - a: Perhaps, but I think people were more likely to be associated with a church/religion back then than they are now. -Paul
[2005-06-10 10:17:28] - paul: i agree it seems a little improbable by today's standards. a lot has changed in the past 2.5 centuries. ~a
[2005-06-10 10:02:58] - Dave: It's something that's probably hard to prove, but I can't imagine that all of the founding fathers who referred to God were simply deists and not christian. Seems a little too improbable. -Paul
[2005-06-10 09:51:24] - Paul: yeah, I definitely knew that all of them weren't, but I do think a decent number were. I guess I could be wrong -dave
[2005-06-10 09:32:38] - Dave: I think Adrian's point was that the founding fathers believed in God, but were not necessarily christian. -Paul
[2005-06-10 09:27:28] - dave: Hmm okay - I can't remember seeing god published, capitalized, in any textbooks or newspapers, but it's definitely possible I just never noticed it - aaron
[2005-06-10 09:20:39] - aaron: in otherwords, capitalizing it or not kind of indicates which one you're referring to -dave
[2005-06-10 09:19:35] - aaron: As far as I know, I don't think it makes a difference what you publish in. It's just a matter of what you're referring to, with God being a single all-powerful entity and god being potentially one of many or not the all-powerful kind etc -dave
[2005-06-10 09:14:10] - Placing boundaries on the nature of the material someone can submit to a teacher and still receive a good grade.... I think that's pretty typical really. And if this really is supposed to be an impartial research paper (like the kind that would be published) then I think god is usually not capitalized in those kinds of papers anyways - aaron
[2005-06-10 09:09:09] - I don't understand how the first amendment is in the slightest way related to this bethany hauf case - aaron
[2005-06-10 08:42:43] - http://www.anandtech.com/news/shownews.aspx?i=24387 add-on HD for PS3 will run Linux -dave
[2005-06-10 08:06:24] - a: don't you remember all that stuff about Puritans and Separatists? Wasn't that all around the time where Protestants split from the Catholic church? And wasn't the main location of the Protestants the US? -dave
[2005-06-10 08:04:58] - a: I'm not going to spend the time to look up more, but I think it's a fairly established fact that the majority of the people in this country were Christian, or at least God-believing in that time-period -dave
[2005-06-10 08:02:55] - The opinions I have advanced… are the effect of the most clear and long-established conviction that the Bible and the Testament are impositions upon the world, that the fall of man, the account of Jesus Christ being the Son of God," -dave
[2005-06-10 08:02:49] - Thomas Paine: "
[2005-06-10 08:00:14] - "Forbid it almighty God. I know not what course others may take, but as for me, give me liberty, or give me death. " -dave
[2005-06-10 08:00:04] - a: Patrick Henry - "An appeal to arms and the God of hosts is all that is left us. But we shall not fight our battle alone. There is a just God that presides over the destinies of nations. The battle sir, is not of the strong alone. Is life so dear or peace so sweet as to be purchased at the price of chains and slavery? -dave
[2005-06-09 18:10:52] - http://www.newscientist.com/article.ns?id=dn7487& Rivals spur men to produce better sperm. Who is paying for this? -Paul
[2005-06-09 17:48:25] - a: Well, it's probably the best way to go and it's also probably likely to work. Just not sure that it should work is all. -Paul
[2005-06-09 17:19:23] - paul: i agree that her first amendment rights aren't being violated. what my point was: they are basing the suit on her "first amendment rights" being violated. which seems stupid to me. ~a
[2005-06-09 17:12:21] - a: No, you just heavily implied it.
-Paul[2005-06-09 17:11:51] - a: I'm not entirely sure her first amendment rights are even being violated here. Nobody is forcing her to not talk about God. They're just saying she will get a bad grade if she does. I didn't know we had a right to get a good grade on a paper. -Paul
[2005-06-09 17:11:04] - paul: i didn't have any reason to believe it DIDN'T happen BEFORE. i never actually said i thought it was a fabrication (reread: well that wasn't a very safe assumption). ~a
[2005-06-09 17:10:09] - a: that is correct, though technically it's supposed to apply only to the federal government. - mig
[2005-06-09 17:09:09] - "the violation of an individual’s constitutional rights, even for a moment, results in irreparable injury." i didn't think the first amendment applied to teachers. in fact, i thought it only applied to federal laws (and later extended to state laws). ~a
[2005-06-09 17:07:24] - a: So do you believe this happened now? -Paul
[2005-06-09 17:05:24] - paul: i dismissed dave's email details because they were not details. ~a
[2005-06-09 17:04:44] - paul: dave did not give the teacher's name, the student's name, the college name. he actually DID give the course name, i was having a hard time believing a school would have a class called "english 101" but i was wrong. ~a
[2005-06-09 17:01:16] - a: I wonder, why did you label that link as having "verifiable details" but dismissed Dave's email details? -paul
[2005-06-09 16:59:02] - "While [the professor's] drug usage choices, and willingness to offer to make bootleg copies of copyrighted materials are troubling, it is the ... decision to down-grade Mrs. Hauf’s work because of its references to a big “G” God that must provoke appropriate administrative intervention by you and your faculty."
~a[2005-06-09 16:56:41] - Dammit, deist. You got me spelling it wrong now.
-Paul[2005-06-09 16:54:30] - a: Diest does not mean they aren't christian. In fact, most of the links you've been providing seem to indicate that a lot of the founders were christian. -Paul
[2005-06-09 16:53:23] - john q adams: unitarian. ~a
[2005-06-09 16:52:33] - john adams: unitarian. ~a
[2005-06-09 16:51:15] - dave: George Washington: diest, Thomas Jefferson: diest, James Madison: diest, James Monroe: diest, John Tyler: diest. ~a
[2005-06-09 16:48:13] - dave: of course founding fathers don't mean first pres's. i was looking through founding fathers also (though) and didn't see any christianity there either (i didn't look very deep though). ~a
[2005-06-09 16:46:11] - a: well I'm not going to debate that with you because I think it's pretty clear. I mean, we have references to God in stuff, so if nothing else, they were influenced enough to do that -dave
[2005-06-09 16:45:11] - Paul: hehe yeah, that's pretty funny. -dave
[2005-06-09 16:44:31] - a: Founding fathers doesn't necessarily mean first presidents and I didn't see anything in that article saying that the first ten presidents weren't christian. -Paul
[2005-06-09 16:39:14] - Dave: I wonder if there is anything to the fact that he told her that the maximum grade she could've gotten was a 69? -Paul
[2005-06-09 16:38:31] - "how the Christian faith influenced and inspired our founding fathers" wait wait wait. how many of the founding fathers were even christian? were any of them? for example, the first ten or so pres's weren't. ~a
[2005-06-09 16:34:37] - a: (shrug) all I got was an email and no link inside the email. -dave
[2005-06-09 16:34:04] - here's the link with actual verifiable details ~a
[2005-06-09 16:33:05] - a: here's a link. looks like it was a call in on the radio show http://www.aclj.org/Issues/FAQs/Question.aspx?ID=463 -dave
[2005-06-09 16:30:06] - dave: not like an article? ~a
[2005-06-09 16:29:27] - a: like the name of Kobe Bryant's accuser? -dave
[2005-06-09 16:27:53] - dave: the college student is presumably not a minor. therefore any legal information is in the public domain. ~a
[2005-06-09 16:26:33] - a: and they might not want to divulge that kind of information anyways, for whatever legal reasons -dave
[2005-06-09 16:26:00] - a: (shrug) don't believe it then. They didn't list many details, probably because it was an email and not like an article -dave
[2005-06-09 16:25:12] - a: the source is The American Center for Law and Justice -dave
[2005-06-09 16:23:37] - what was the professor's name? what state was it in? i know i'm asking a crazilly high number of questions, but since there are like NO details about this, i'm having a hard time believing this ever really even happened (and i know it's not your job to prove it to me, but, whatever). ~a
[2005-06-09 16:21:42] - does bethany have a last name? what class was the paper for? (english 101 can't possibly be the actual name of the class) ~a
[2005-06-09 16:19:22] - dave: what's the source? ~a
[2005-06-09 16:12:37] - a: but the source of the email is pretty solid, they're well known in the christian community for dealing with problems like that -dave
[2005-06-09 16:12:09] - a: they don't say what the college's name is -dave
[2005-06-09 16:11:44] - "The English 101 student, whose name is Bethany, was told she could pick the topic for her quarterly term paper. She made her choice, and the professor approved - but he also told Bethany not to mention God in the paper." -dave
[2005-06-09 15:42:38] - dave: what's the college's name? what class is it? what's the professor's name? ~a
[2005-06-09 15:41:50] - Dave: http://voxday.blogspot.com/2005/06/awol-nea.html You might find this interesting. -Paul
[2005-06-09 15:38:10] - ""Don't mention God" - that's what a professor told a college student who was writing a paper on religion and its place in government!" -dave
[2005-06-09 15:36:52] - although that assumes that most stories that result in legal action are true, which isn't necessarily a perfect assumption either ^_^ -dave
[2005-06-09 15:35:57] - I would guess it's not a fabricated story because there is on-going legal action because of it -dave
[2005-06-09 15:21:29] - i'm glad we agree
~a[2005-06-09 14:29:07] - a: Assuming that it was fabricated? I agree. -Paul
[2005-06-09 14:17:15] - well that wasn't a very safe assumption. ~a
[2005-06-09 14:16:13] - a: Well, my story is true as far as I remember. I figured you knew that Dave's story was fabricated by the way you said, "that reminds me of the many other fabricated stories on that subject matter". -Paul
[2005-06-09 14:11:42] - i asked first . . . but to answer your question: i have no idea. ~a
[2005-06-09 14:09:22] - a: Was Dave's actually a fabricated story? -Paul
[2005-06-09 14:09:03] - Pierce: Well, it's a different situation since he wasn't really trying to convince us of anything, he was just trying to explain somebody else's philosophy. -Paul
[2005-06-09 14:01:57] - paul: was it actually a true story? ~a
[2005-06-09 13:58:56] - Paul: he was very fortunate that it happened to confirm his point rather than contradict it (like the fabricated piece-of-chalk example adrian linked to). - pierce
[2005-06-09 13:55:01] - It was very timely and quite funny, because the professor looked very confused for a moment when the ball didn't come back down. -Paul
[2005-06-09 13:54:31] - a: And right when he was making his point, he accidentally threw it too hard and it hit the ceiling and stuck (because it lifted a tile in the ceiling up a bit and the tile landed back on part of the koosh ball. -Paul
[2005-06-09 13:53:46] - a: That reminds me of one of the many other true stories from my philosophy class. My professor was throwing a koosh ball in the air and talking about how a philosopher claimed that we have no way of knowing that it will fall back to the earth. -Paul
[2005-06-09 13:34:08] - pierce: suggested english 101 topic where god (or jesus in this case) would be an appropriate subject: who would you put in a fight against santa claus. ~a
[2005-06-09 13:26:30] - in other words, was she downgraded because she was religious or because she wrote about an unrelated topic? - pierce
[2005-06-09 13:25:19] - dave: did it say what the topic of the paper was? if it was to discuss, say, the authors of major works of moral philosophy and she talked about capital-G-God instead of the human writers covered by the course, then there might be a grey area... but other than that, I can't think of many English 101 topics that would relate to God. - pierce
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