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[2006-03-08 10:51:25] - Paul: i don't think of job interviewing as like... a formal, black-and-white process. it's sort of like a step in the process of networking. whether you got the job, or took it, you made a contact with people in your field. -amy
[2006-03-08 10:51:15] - Amy: As long as somebody else is weird like me in the same way, I feel better about it.
-Paul[2006-03-08 10:50:51] - Sam: Ah, well, if it's anything like my company's Christmas party, then you should be able to bring a female friend along with no problem. I know of some coworkers who did that. -Paul
[2006-03-08 10:50:31] - Paul: no, i've done stuff like that before. but then again, maybe we're both weird. -amy
[2006-03-08 10:47:39] - paul: SRA's Spring Fest is basically a company party. we are having it now because we didn't have christmas party last year -sam
[2006-03-08 10:42:30] - Does anybody think it's weird if I say "hopefully we can work together sometime in the future" at the end of an email to somebody where I am turning down a job offer? I want to leave bridges thoroughly unburned but I also don't want to leave them with the impression I am leaving my job soon... -Paul
[2006-03-08 10:18:42] - Sam: I'm not sure what kind of event this is, but you could also always try asking any female friends you have if they want to go just as a friend. I'm sure it doesn't have to be a romantic date. -Paul
[2006-03-08 10:13:02] - sam: you don't have to, a guest is optional. if I were single, I probably wouldn't try to find a date just for this (but if there was someone you were thinking of asking out, this is a great excuse to do it!
) - vinnie[2006-03-08 10:06:12] - a: Yeah, all my stocks have sucked too. I'm still up a bunch so I'm not upset but I'm beginning to wonder if I should've sold AMD back when I thought about it (around $41 I think) instead of trying to hold out for a year. -Paul
[2006-03-08 09:57:59] - at least i haven't lost any money. ~a
[2006-03-08 09:57:45] - i've basically been put back to where i was in december. ~a
[2006-03-08 09:57:17] - paul: i'm not singling out amd. all of my stocks have been sucking the past month. the only reason i'm pissed off is, i was going to sell amd at 42. ~a
[2006-03-08 09:54:32] - a: How about that AMD stock now?
-Paul[2006-03-08 09:50:56] - apropos slashdot article about coffee. ~a
[2006-03-08 09:43:34] - Sam: I'm sure there is some joke to be made about confusing "lady friend" with "lay friend"
-Paul[2006-03-08 09:43:05] - Sam: I've only drank coffee once and it was only about a cup so I can't say. -Paul
[2006-03-08 09:34:01] - i meant lady friend -sam
[2006-03-08 09:33:45] - vinnie: but if i go, i should go with a date or a lay friend, right? -sam
[2006-03-08 09:28:04] - mmmm. coffee. ~a
[2006-03-08 09:16:37] - vinnie: me too! i can't even eat coffee flavoured ice cream. - aba
[2006-03-08 09:08:59] - sam: I basically get nauseous if I drink any coffee
- vinnie[2006-03-08 09:08:14] - sam: yes we are! are you? - vinnie
[2006-03-08 06:33:13] - vinnie_amy: are you guys going to the SRA's Spring Fest? -sam
[2006-03-07 21:01:18] - do you guys get nauseous if you drink too much coffee? -sam
[2006-03-07 20:50:39] - wow, look at this race car simulator. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mRAJBZT3I4w&feature=Featured&page=1&t=t&f=b -sam
[2006-03-07 17:21:42] - abamy: I just don't think it's something that should really bother you two to much. You shouldn't be ashamed of stereotypically acting like the gender that you are. -Paul
[2006-03-07 17:20:35] - aba: Well, I can see that I guess. It can be really hard to carry on a discussion with somebody who is crying. -Paul
[2006-03-07 17:12:58] - paul: my family hates it because whenever i have to talk about something important i start getting all emotional and crying.
i agree with amy that it can be really annoying. - aba[2006-03-07 17:09:01] - Paul: Kind of gets in the way of things. e.g. serious discussion (often goes together with crying). causes people alarm and concern. just generally annoying sometimes. -amy
[2006-03-07 16:57:54] - abamy: I guess I could see not wanting to cry in the office or something like that, but it seems perfectly acceptable to cry outside the office. -Paul
[2006-03-07 16:52:51] - paul: i think the problem is that it's seen as a stereotypical female weakness, and i don't like being seen as weak. *shrug* - aba
[2006-03-07 16:52:01] - aba: also same about the fridge. my mom doesn't do it and i learned that from her. i let really hot things cool on the counter for a bit before putting it in the fridge. -amy
[2006-03-07 16:51:38] - aba: No offense, but what's wrong with doing something that is stereotypically female? -Paul
[2006-03-07 16:51:19] - aba: yeah i know what you mean .( i'm afraid i'm going to be taken less seriously at work now. -amy
[2006-03-07 16:50:56] - Paul: I did but i didn't want to expl explicitly why i was upset... i feel like it's like unprofessional to have emotions. -amy
[2006-03-07 16:47:50] - amy: i cry all the time too. i hate it because it makes me feel like such a stereotypical female. - aba
[2006-03-07 16:47:05] - sam: my mom never puts warm/hot food in the fridge because it warms up the other contents of the fridge (before the coolant can bring the temperature back down). - aba
[2006-03-07 16:45:40] - amy: Nah, I'm sure your manager understands. Did you tell them you just got off the phone with your tech lead? -Paul
[2006-03-07 16:41:25] - Paul: It's okay. I just hope it doesn't make me look bad. -amy
[2006-03-07 16:29:37] - Sam: Doesn't sound like too bad of a postseason to me. -Paul
[2006-03-07 16:29:05] - amy: Sorry to hear about your discussion with your tech lead (and afterwards, your manager). -Paul
[2006-03-07 16:27:58] - a: I cried when I left VT, that was like 3 years ago - aaron
[2006-03-07 16:26:58] - sam: No, I don't think so - aaron
[2006-03-07 16:21:44] - is it bad to put warm/hot food in the fridge? e.g., leftover chinese food that's still hot. -sam
[2006-03-07 16:09:21] - a: yeah, i know, it seems weird but i don't think it's uncommon. well this is a happy conversation. i'm sorry about your relatives and favorite pet .( -amy
[2006-03-07 16:07:30] - paul_mig: this is how korean baseball league crowns its champ. all teams are in 1 league. at the end of the regular season, 3rd and 2nd place teams play in the best of 5 game series. the winner of that series play the 1st place in the best of 7 game series. what do you think about that kind of post season? -sam
[2006-03-07 16:05:56] - not to mention my favorite pet in the whole world. no offense to tucker. ~a
[2006-03-07 16:03:25] - it's been over four years since i cried last (iirc). since then i've had two close relatives die. it's weird. ~a
[2006-03-07 15:58:32] - a: yeah, i know people who don't cry anymore that say they wish they did, or even that they have tried to when they were really upset but could not. personally, i wish i didn't cry all the damn time. we should take the average. or something. -amy
[2006-03-07 15:55:02] - amy: i don't cry anymore. i have a feeling that something inside me died. ~a
[2006-03-07 15:54:42] -
[2006-03-07 15:53:45] - i'd ask if that's ever happened to any of you but somehow i doubt that .) -amy
[2006-03-07 15:52:35] - if i'd just had even like a minute to collect myself, i wouldn't have been totally useless on the phone with my mgr. damn. -amy
[2006-03-07 15:51:08] - so i just got off the phone with my tech lead after a lovely conversation which nearly had me in tears and 2 seconds later my mgr calls. i'm trying not to show it but i'm sure i was audibly upset. i wish i were less unprofessional ;_; -amy
[2006-03-07 15:49:54] - a: well no, i forget exactly what the explanation you gave, but yesterday i had said (after you and paul gave expl) that i had received 3 distinct explanations. so incl. that one as well, that would be 5 .) -amy
[2006-03-07 15:38:37] - amy: does my "the stock market is a crap shoot" count as one of the distinct explanations you're received? ~a
[2006-03-07 14:55:18] - dave: thanks, that makes the fourth distinct explanation i've received .) -amy
[2006-03-07 14:13:31] - amy: mm, speculation on interest rate hikes too -dave
[2006-03-07 14:11:57] - amy: like bond yields and a lower TI sales outlook is what it says are factors for the market atm -dave
[2006-03-07 14:10:11] - amy: www.marketwatch.com and finance.yahoo.com often will give explanations for what the stock market is doing -dave
[2006-03-07 14:08:15] - a: like the 10 year treasury bond yield is at 4.74% atm -dave
[2006-03-07 14:06:47] - a: so higher bond yields will sort of naturally make stocks less attractive because you could just buy a bond that would give you X% return -dave
[2006-03-07 14:06:05] - a: so higher bond yields means that the return for bonds is increasing, meaning that you'd get a higher return on an investment in them -dave
[2006-03-07 14:05:36] - a: a yield on a bond is how much the bond will pay back in interest. Bond prices and bond yields have an inverse relationship -dave
[2006-03-07 13:38:37] - mig: I think if the Colts and Steelers played each other in a seven game series, Indy would win. I think Indy is the better team. The Steelers just happened to end on a hot streak. -Paul
[2006-03-07 13:37:07] - mig: No, I think it's fine that we choose champions using the playoff system, I just don't think it means that the team that wins is necessarily the best team. -Paul
[2006-03-07 13:34:26] - paul: so you think we should have just dubbed indy or seattle the league champions right when the regular season ended? - mig
[2006-03-07 13:25:19] - mig: I'm a big fan of the Steelers, but I think that they only proved that they were the best team over the past 5 weeks or so of the football season. If you take the whole season into account, I think you would have to put them behind a number of other teams. -Paul
[2006-03-07 13:15:59] - paul: it makes my blood boil to say so, but the steelers did prove they really were the best team in the NFL this year. - mig
[2006-03-07 13:13:28] - Vinnie: I almost squealed like a schoolgirl too when I saw it.
-Paul[2006-03-07 13:13:03] - mig: The exception is something like basketball or baseball, where they play a number of games for each series. I think that helps to make sure that the best team wins. -Paul
[2006-03-07 13:12:25] - mig: I would dispute that. Look at the NFL playoffs this year. Do you think the Steelers were really the best team? The playoffs reward teams that get hot at the end of the year or string a couple of lucky games together. -Paul
[2006-03-07 13:08:37] - it's why i prefer a playoff system than this whole "regular season is meaningful" nonsense. the winner of the playoffs, is almost always, the best team. - mig
[2006-03-07 13:03:33] - i mean the college football NC doesn't really pit the top 2 teams per se against each other, just the 2 teams that happen to be in weak conferences that year. - mig
[2006-03-07 13:01:20] - sam: you could say college sports as a whole is built on unfairness. - mig
[2006-03-07 12:45:07] - mig: nevermind, it will never be fair... -sam
[2006-03-07 12:41:02] - mig: but don't you think it's a little bit unfair that schools in certain conf have more opportunities to get to the national tournament? -sam
[2006-03-07 12:38:34] - what's BSTR string? -sam
[2006-03-07 11:42:57] - paul, aba: eeeeeeeeeeeeeeee
- vinnie[2006-03-07 11:02:14] - aba: I really hope it's going to be awesome, The preview looks orgasmically good. I just have some concerns about the plot (seems like possibly too much going on) and the director (no Bryan Singer). I think Beast looks fine in those previews, I'm more concerned about Storm's hair. -Paul
[2006-03-07 10:58:32] - paul: i know! it's going to be so awesome! (although i'm still not sold on the look for beast) - aba
[2006-03-07 10:41:53] - http://www.apple.com/trailers/fox/tls/trailer/large.html Oh baby... -Paul
[2006-03-07 10:33:51] - and i see no reason to pity the bottom feeders of the big east. if you want in the tourney then don't suck. - mig
[2006-03-07 10:31:32] - sam: while you can technically lose all your games in the regularly season and still win the conference tourny in the ACC and B12, seriously, how likely is that? - mig
[2006-03-07 09:44:11] - Sam: Having a tournament like that at the end of the season will often bring up the complaint that it makes the regular season less meaningful. That's why I kinda don't want college football to institute a playoff system. -Paul
[2006-03-07 08:45:58] - the reason for that is most conferences don't want to do more than 12, because a 12 team tourney allows you to set up byes for your top seeds (hence they have to play less games and might do better in the ncaa tourney). - mig
[2006-03-07 06:51:19] - What do women want from gaming? http://www.wired.com/news/technology/0,70313-0.html?tw=rss.technology -sam
[2006-03-06 21:56:23] - it sux for those 4 schools in big east... but in ACC and big 12, you can lose all of your regular season games and still have chance to win the conf and national title -sam
[2006-03-06 21:54:10] - big east has 16 schools and bottom 4 don't go to the conf tourney -sam
[2006-03-06 21:51:39] - actually, big 12 is the same way -sam
[2006-03-06 21:49:05] - i mean, it seems like the regular season doesn't matter -sam
[2006-03-06 21:45:32] - Is ACC the only conference that has all of its schools in the conf tourney or is it like that in many other conferences? -sam
[2006-03-06 18:31:36] - amy: http://finance.yahoo.com/q/bc?s=%5EIXIC&t=5d&l=on&z=m&q=l&c= if you look at it in this context, it looks normal - aaron
[2006-03-06 16:28:28] - amy: Oh, wait, I misunderstood what you said. Disregard my previous comment.
-Paul[2006-03-06 16:21:21] - amy: Aw, I thought mine were consistent.
-Paul[2006-03-06 16:20:46] - amy: the stock market is a crap shoot. ~a
[2006-03-06 16:19:41] - okay so, so far i've heard 3 different explanations of today's stock market behavior, and no two same explanations from diff people .) -amy
[2006-03-06 16:14:35] - sam: the volume will get you close. it tells you how many shares were sold. ~a
[2006-03-06 16:11:55] - Sam: There should be (I know Scottrade can do this for a specific stock), but I can't tell you how off-hand. -Paul
[2006-03-06 16:10:35] - is there a way to tell how many transactions occured during certain time frames? -sam
[2006-03-06 16:03:28] - (i put it in quotes because i have no idea what it means) ~a
[2006-03-06 16:00:30] - as for the reasoning: it seems like some people think the "higher bond yields" are the cause of the drops today. ~a
[2006-03-06 15:57:02] - amy: Yeah, the net result isn't too strange, but I do think the path that was taken to get to that result is a bit odd. -Paul
[2006-03-06 15:55:36] - and we're not even at 1% yet (although i'll admit that because most of the loss was in a one hour period, that is a little weird). ~a
[2006-03-06 15:54:45] - amy: i believe it's normalish. over 1% (up or down) in one day happens many times a year. ~a
[2006-03-06 15:50:43] - amy: I would say it's not very normal, but that it's also not TOO strange either. I've noticed over the past couple of days that the market will start up a decent amount and end up down a lot (or, once or twice, the other way around). -Paul
[2006-03-06 15:46:23] - is this sort of graph atypical stock market behavior or is this fairly normal: http://finance.yahoo.com/q/bc?s=%5eIXIC&t=1d&c= -amy
[2006-03-06 15:08:18] -
~a[2006-03-06 14:59:06] - Amy: It sounds like investors are concerned about AT&T's attempts to buy Bell South. -Paul
[2006-03-06 14:57:08] - Paul: But why? -amy
[2006-03-06 14:48:49] - amy: It's going down.
-Paul[2006-03-06 14:43:15] - what on earth is going on in the stock market today. -amy
[2006-03-06 14:21:38] - mig: yea it's supposed to give you a nice report. -sam
[2006-03-06 14:01:47] - i know i used crystal reports for either netalyst or plannet. i forget which though. and i forget what it even does. ~a
[2006-03-06 13:54:49] - sam: is that some sort of reporting software? - mig
[2006-03-06 13:44:37] - sam: mine is in my pocket too. I think belt clip fashion is a throwback to the time when having a cell phone at all meant you were a stockbroker or drug dealer. - pierce
[2006-03-06 13:35:45] - my cell phone resides in my pocket. ~a
[2006-03-06 13:34:38] - pierce: then where would men put their cell phones? in the pockets? -sam
[2006-03-06 13:33:18] - pierce: really? i did not know that... i mean i see a bunch of men with cell phone belt clips -sam
[2006-03-06 13:06:22] - sam: I think most "fashionable" people would say a cell phone belt clip looks funny regardless of where on your belt it is. - pierce
[2006-03-06 12:46:01] - does it look funny to have cell phone belt clip right next to your belt buckle? -sam
[2006-03-06 12:40:30] - anyone familiar with crystal reports? -sam
[2006-03-06 10:34:31] - but i guess that adds another player to the market that the ravens could possibly pick up if the whole cba insanity is finally worked out. - mig
[2006-03-06 10:31:11] - Though i have to say the redskins are total morons for letting it get that bad. - mig
[2006-03-06 10:26:42] - sam: yeah, they had a really rocky relationship over this year. I'm a bit surprised he was this desperate to get out of DC, but i guess part of me isn't. - mig
[2006-03-06 09:46:37] - mig: wow, lavar didn't like the redskins that much? -sam
[2006-03-06 09:29:52] - paul: nope, definitely not, at least in virginia, anyways. - mig
[2006-03-06 09:26:57] - I have to say that I'm surprised that Crash won for best picture. It's not often that I have actually seen (and liked) the winner of the best picture award.
-Paul[2006-03-06 09:24:36] - Ah, I didn't know it was dependent on the state. I thought it was legal for parents/guardians to give alcohol to minors anywhere in the US as long as it was done on private property or something like that. -Paul
[2006-03-06 08:58:18] - sam: i definitely know it's not legal in VA. In fact, the person who owns the property can actually be held legally responsible if minors consume alcohol on their property. - mig
[2006-03-06 08:57:32] - http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news;_ylt=Avxlzy_p7nBKmpXZfLzzr4FDubYF?slug=ap-redskins-arrington&prov=ap&type=lgns arrington pays $4 million to be released from the redskins. - mig
[2006-03-06 08:37:09] - in louisana (or maybe just in new orleans) i've been told that it's only illegal to purchase alcohol/enter bars if you're under 21, while simply possessing/comsuption is legal (though not in public i'd imagine). - mig
[2006-03-06 06:55:03] - paul: actually i think in some states in US it is legal to drink on private property -sam
[2006-03-06 06:41:53] - drinking law in the UK http://www.erowid.org/chemicals/alcohol/alcohol_law2.shtml "under 16: may be present in a restaraunt etc where alcohol is served with a meal and at the licensee's discretion may consume (but not purchase) alcohol bought by a parent or guardian" -sam
[2006-03-06 06:38:56] - this site shows you the drinking ages all over the world http://www2.potsdam.edu/hansondj/LegalDrinkingAge.html -sam
[2006-03-06 06:37:17] - paul: and i think it was at vick's apartment -sam
[2006-03-06 06:32:53] - paul: i think one of the reasons why marcus vick got in trouble was giving alcohol to minors -sam
[2006-03-06 06:30:56] - paul: it's legal to drink on private property even if you are underage? marcus vick? -sam
[2006-03-06 06:21:15] - aba: dang, paul beat me to it -sam
[2006-03-06 06:20:18] - aba: i think the picture was taken in England. drinking age in England is 18. i think emma watson is 15. -sam
[2006-03-05 23:17:07] - Also, isn't it perfectly legal for underaged people to drink on private property even in the United States? -Paul
[2006-03-05 23:16:35] - aba: My guess is that she's drinking in Britain since she's English. I believe the drinking age in Britain is 18, and she is only 15 right now. Of course, she also could be drinking somewhere else. -Paul
[2006-03-05 23:14:23] - a: Multi-point, multi-user interactions always get me all excited. -paul
[2006-03-05 23:13:40] - sam: given that the restroom in the background is labeled "WC", i would guess that the picture wasn't taken in the US. lots of countries have drinking ages that are much lower than 21, so who knows if she is actually doing anything illegal in the photo. - aba
[2006-03-05 22:58:12] - sam: yeah, that multi-touch input information is very sexy. ~a
[2006-03-05 22:37:52] - Sam: That's hot. -Paul
[2006-03-05 18:12:14] - emma watson drinking beer underage http://www.reviewstar.net/data/broad07/cbon33.jpg -sam
[2006-03-04 13:39:53] - Bi-manual, multi-point, and multi-user interactions on a graphical interaction surface. http://mrl.nyu.edu/~jhan/ftirtouch/ -sam
[2006-03-04 13:35:42] - Jefferson Y. Han, Multi-Touch Interaction Research http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DtFLkA9zZtU -sam
[2006-03-04 13:16:07] - sam: I think that transformer thing was already posted here - aaron
[2006-03-04 13:01:22] - BMW automatic parallel parking http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vMvdu22tGYA -sam
[2006-03-04 01:07:52] - sam: a bunches of persons. ~a
[2006-03-03 23:55:28] - the REAL transformer robot http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=STQ3nhXuuEM&feature=Favorites&page=2&t=t&f=b -sam
[2006-03-03 19:36:58] - a: who posted that back in 2001? -sam
[2006-03-03 19:35:14] - a: lol, wow i guess i'm kinda late... -sam
[2006-03-03 17:11:37] - Pierce: Yeah, you both could very well be right. I just wish I could convince them to judge my salary based on what they think I'm worth to the company rather than "has this person done x% more work to warrant the x% increase in pay". -Paul
[2006-03-03 16:50:32] - paul: I agree with you in principle. But the people who do the hiring process are often not the ones who see the consequences of the "new employee learning curve", so that hidden cost doesn't hit home with them as much. - pierce
[2006-03-03 16:45:32] - aba: I mean, I'm getting less than the average for somebody of my skills and experience (I think) which that anybody new that they hire is almost certainly going to cost more than me anyway. It's not like I'm asking to get paid significantly more than my replacement would cost, I'm just asking to be paid about the same as my replacement would cost. -Paul
[2006-03-03 16:42:16] - aba: I think what you're saying makes sense. It just seems like it would make good business sense (nevermind them caring about how you feel) to keep somebody around who only wants to be paid their market value rather than try to find somebody who is a little cheaper but has no experience with the company. -Paul
[2006-03-03 16:34:42] - sam: same lyrics.
~a[2006-03-03 16:08:21] - i think it's funny -sam
[2006-03-03 16:07:56] - lol http://www.lyrics007.com/Sir%20Mix-A-Lot%20Lyrics/I%20Like%20Big%20Butts%20Lyrics.html
[2006-03-03 16:05:47] - paul: i guess they will try their best to keep you and keep you happy if they really desire your skills -sam
[2006-03-03 16:04:09] - paul: this might be unrealated to salary situation... i recently moved to a new project. before i moved, i asked my boss if it will be easy for me to get accepted to a new project since my salary is low. he said no. he said they look at your skills. -sam
[2006-03-03 16:02:47] - otherwise i could go into a retail business and try to command a really high salary for doing a totally different kind of job. does that make sense? - aba
[2006-03-03 16:01:54] - so your worth to your current employer can be drastically lower than what your "market" worth is. - aba
[2006-03-03 16:01:20] - paul: i think the distinction is what someone else would be willing to pay you to do another job does not necessarily equal what your company should be paying you to do your current job. - aba
[2006-03-03 15:55:45] - paul: the only time they will give you a huge raise is if 1) you demonstrate capabilities higher than your original position or 2) you have a skillset or knowledgeset that is indispensible to them. - aba
[2006-03-03 15:54:51] - paul: it's depressing, but your happiness isn't really worth that much to them...... just the productivity of the person doing your job. if you want substantially more money for the same amount of work, then it's better for them to fire you and get someone fresh who is willing to get paid your original salary. - aba
[2006-03-03 15:51:25] - because the chance that, say, boeing will skyrocket in revenue is pretty slim. but if it does while you work there, your income won't skyrocket at a comparable rate, even if you have options. - pierce
[2006-03-03 15:49:57] - a: right, but working for a large, established company should be like investing in a low-risk stock, when in fact it's more like a savings account. - pierce
[2006-03-03 15:44:23] - pierce: if you want to be paid higher on the good days, you gotta be paid lower on the bad days. ~a
[2006-03-03 15:43:22] - pierce: as with anything, low risk = low income. ~a
[2006-03-03 15:40:17] - a: at best, most established companies only offer stocks and options as a marginal benefit to an otherwise-stable salary. the only places where the ratio weights more towards the "piece of the pie" are startups, and they have the unfortunate side effect of being quite risky. - pierce
[2006-03-03 15:37:42] - now to be clear, the ratio shouldn't actually be 1:1... some buffer should be put in for expansion, and to make sure that they can compensate if revenue decreases one year. People in our society are not prepared for pay cuts. - pierce
[2006-03-03 15:37:05] - pierce: yeah it's odd. my company responds to having more money by simply going on a hiring binge. - mig
[2006-03-03 15:37:04] - pierce: become a stockholder. ~a
[2006-03-03 15:35:48] - as it is, they'll usually just hire 20% more people. The only people who get a piece of the pie are executives, people who work on commission, and stockholders. - pierce
[2006-03-03 15:35:15] - paul: I'm not saying it makes sense... by the same token, I think it's dumb that they base "worth to the company" on industry averages for the position. I think it should be based on the performance of the company. If a company's current employee set increases revenue by 20%, then I think those employees should be paid 20% more. - pierce
[2006-03-03 15:34:50] - they looked at what they were paying me and apparently were terrified they thought i could easily make more elsewhere. - mig
[2006-03-03 15:34:09] - I guess I've been lucky because I haven't really had to really voice my displeasure with my company. They just gave me 2 raises over last year (one for my normal yearly raise, and another a couple months later) - mig
[2006-03-03 15:32:05] - It seems to make little sense for a company to base salaries on what they used to pay somebody instead of what they're actually worth to the company, is all I'm saying. -Paul
[2006-03-03 15:29:56] - Pierce: Understood, but they should also understand that it's possible that I realized that I can make more money elsewhere now and that as a result, my contentness with my current salary can change. -Paul
[2006-03-03 15:27:08] - paul: but your subtext that "I might leave if you don't pay me what I'm worth" is weakened by the fact that you were content to have the existing salary for that job. They don't see a reason that you should suddenly expect more when you were already happy, so they won't assume you'll leave if they say no. - pierce
[2006-03-03 15:25:22] - aba+pierce: I'm not necessarily saying you're wrong, but it doesn't quite seem right to me. If they are paying me less than what I'm worth and I ask for a raise to bring my salary more in line with what I'm worth, wouldn't it make more sense to just pay me instead of trying to find a replacement for me? -Paul
[2006-03-03 15:16:32] - a: I have all these stupid gold stocks that go up or down like 15% a day. They're holdovers from when my dad was investing my internship money in high school. - pierce
[2006-03-03 15:14:33] - So, I got a 17% raise, followed a few months later by a 14% raise. - pierce
[2006-03-03 15:14:03] - When the freeze ended and I went to my boss about the raise, we'd been doing relatively well financially, they were asking me to do things beyond what had been the agreed-upon responsibilities of the job (read: travel), and I had made myself invaluable to my project so they couldn't afford to ignore the "he might leave" subtext. - pierce
[2006-03-03 15:13:13] - paul: I have an anecdote too. I was at the mid-low end of the salary range for new hires, but I was hired during a salary freeze... - pierce
[2006-03-03 15:13:04] - pierce: i disagree with "they already know he was previously content with doing that same job for the existing salary" but i don't have time to argue my point
~a[2006-03-03 15:11:51] - paul: when something goes up 10% in three days, you sell. ~a
[2006-03-03 15:11:12] - i agree with pierce in that you have to have a demonstratable reason for you to get more money in order for them to actually agree. - aba
[2006-03-03 15:09:53] - o got raises in the 3-6% range. - aba
[2006-03-03 15:09:42] - paul: when i started working at ibm, i accepted a salary that was at the bottom of their scale for recent grads. in the first year that i was there, i took on a ton of work and learned a lot of things on my own resulting in a 25% increase in pay. i know others who started at the same time as me but didn't go above and beyond what they were hired to dd
[2006-03-03 15:08:42] - the other thing that can happen, though, is that U changes because your life changes. If you get married, buy a house, have kids, that sort of thing then they may understand that they can increase S and still get the return on their investment... and if they don't, then U will be forced to leave. - pierce
[2006-03-03 15:06:34] - if they know you (U) have been okay with making S salary for W work, then they're not going to change S significantly unless U or W is changing. The normal progression is that U increases in value as you gain experience, and W increases as you accept more responsibilities. - pierce
[2006-03-03 15:06:26] - aba: So basically, if somebody accepts a lower salary than they are worth when they sign up for a job, they are pretty much stuck with being underpaid the rest of their time with the company? -Paul
[2006-03-03 15:03:04] - a: if they are making an adjustment without changing his job, they generally won't make a 25% adjustment. yearly raises are based on performance increases and cost of living adjustments. they are completely different from raises that you ask for on your own. - aba
[2006-03-03 15:01:26] - aba: That's a depressing thought. I don't mind taking on a little more work but at the same time, I was hoping that if I seemed to be making less than I should that asking for a raise that size would be reasonable. -Paul
[2006-03-03 15:00:32] - a: but they already know he was previously content with doing that same job for the existing salary. if nothing's fundamentally changed about the job then they won't assume he's justified in wanting more for no apparent reason. - pierce
[2006-03-03 15:00:25] - a: Wow, you don't hold onto things for long, do you? -Paul
[2006-03-03 14:59:48] - plus typically people get yearly raises anyways. ~a
[2006-03-03 14:59:22] - ask aaron about his recent raise. it sounds like that's his situation. ~a
[2006-03-03 14:58:57] - aba: that's not true if his bosses thinks he was underpaid before the raise. ~a
[2006-03-03 14:57:40] - paul: i think if you want that large of a raise without a workload adjustment, you are probably better off switching to another job. - aba
[2006-03-03 14:57:21] - DAMN i wish i had. it's down 8% from this morning. ~a
[2006-03-03 14:57:03] - i was going to sell this morning
~a[2006-03-03 14:56:39] - paul:
~a[2006-03-03 14:47:51] - 5. Where are you in the social network of the office? If you're the quiet guy that no one ever thinks about, and you get a significant raise, and word spreads to the rest of the employees, their morale may plummet as they wonder what you did to deserve more money. Furthermore, that may trigger them asking for raises, which is also bad for management. - pierce
[2006-03-03 14:46:43] - aba: Yeah, I was approaching this more as an adjustment to my salary than necessarily a raise and perhaps that wasn't a good idea. Regardless, it didn't really come up in the conversation so I guess in a way that's good. -Paul
[2006-03-03 14:45:08] - http://news.moneycentral.msn.com/provider/providerarticle.asp?feed=OBR&Date=20060303&ID=5553770 How is AMD doing so badly today? -Paul
[2006-03-03 14:45:01] - 4. How harmful would it be to the company if you left? You may not be threatening to leave or even intending it, but it's an unspoken subtext to any raise request. It's all a political game and they know if you ask for something and they actively deny it, it's basically emasculating you and your morale will be completely shot. - pierce
[2006-03-03 14:44:41] - generally you can't ask for more money when you're just going to continue doing the same job that you've already been doing. - aba
[2006-03-03 14:43:34] - paul: i see i'm too late, but i would have said that the %age that you ask for is heavily dependent on how the company has been doing recently, what major tasks you've accomplished and whether there's potential for promotion (or ownership of more responsibility). - aba
[2006-03-03 14:43:28] - 3. How much are you paid already? Obviously, this impacts the actual value of the percentage. It's best not to think of it in terms of percentages because in general the raise will only be compared to the budget, so you should just treat it as a raw number. - pierce
[2006-03-03 14:42:20] - 2. How has your performance been lately? Sadly enough, short-term opinion seems to be more important than long-term performance, particularly when there aren't clearly measured metrics for long-term performance. - pierce
[2006-03-03 14:41:31] - Dave: Thanks for the well wishes.
-Paul[2006-03-03 14:41:21] - 1. How has the company been doing, specifically your group? That will impact how much of a budget they have to draw from. - pierce
[2006-03-03 14:41:07] - Aaron: I don't see it as much as I'm asking for a huge increase (although that's totally accurate), I see it more as I'm asking for them to bring my pay up to what I think it should be. -Paul
[2006-03-03 14:40:42] - in my experience, what is a "reasonable" raise to ask for is based on a number of factors: - pierce
[2006-03-03 14:40:30] - Dave: Reading the Sports Guy?
-Paul[2006-03-03 14:38:44] - "By the time we got [to Detroit], it was almost 2 in the morning, because ain't nothing open but hospitals, jails and legs." -- Jalen Rose -dave
[2006-03-03 14:37:15] - "When you're kind of the ugly stepsister, you just go to the prom with whoever asks you." -- Miami Hurricanes coach Larry Coker on not playing in a BCS bowl -dave
[2006-03-03 14:21:53] - Paul: well that sucks, whatever happened. There's always next month ^_^ -dave
[2006-03-03 13:36:18] - paul: I think during your first few years of employment, it's not too unusual to ask for/receive a raise which is a large %age of your salary. But the older you get, the less likely it becomes, I think - aaron
[2006-03-03 13:31:03] - Dave: They didn't really refuse... it was a bit of a complicated situation which I just think I utterly mishandled.
-Paul[2006-03-03 13:27:13] - Paul: hehe, you asked and they refused? not a good situation IMO -dave
[2006-03-03 13:26:26] - title: I have that on my iPod.
-Paul[2006-03-03 13:26:15] - Dave: Heh, I suppose that was my problem then.
-Paul[2006-03-03 13:25:37] - Samyvos: Thanks for the advice. -Paul
[2006-03-03 13:24:55] - Paul: I say that because trying to negotiate for a raise seems rather weak unless you are ready to force the issue by leaving. If leaving would cause too many problems for you, well then that's the reason they're not paying as much - because they figure it'll be too much a pain for you to switch -dave
[2006-03-03 13:22:51] - Paul: To be fair, I'm looking for a $10K or more increase in my salary, so-- -- Xpovos
[2006-03-03 13:22:19] - Paul: in my opinion, you should never ask for a raise unless you are ready to be fired on the spot -dave
[2006-03-03 13:13:00] - dave: it better have some good choices on HD-DVD movies. -sam
[2006-03-03 13:12:45] - Paul: I think it's reasonable to ask that your salary be adjusted to the level that you think it should be, regardless of % or $ increase. Because presumably, that's what you'd get if you left the company and took a job elsewhere anyway. -amy
[2006-03-03 13:11:30] - dave: "First, there will be the entry-level HD-A1, which will be priced at $500, just about half of what Samsung's Blu-ray player will cost. The second model, HD-XA1, offers a few upgrades and rings in at $800. Both models will be available through retailers such as Best Buy at the end of this month, according to Toshiba." wow that's expensive -sam
[2006-03-03 13:07:07] - paul: at my company, more than 7% is considered a lot -sam
[2006-03-03 12:54:17] - Sam: I don't think my current salary is really low, but I also think that I am underpaid for my position right now. -Paul
[2006-03-03 12:53:01] - Xpovos: More than 8K is probably too much? Crap, way to throw a wrench in my plans right before my meeting.
-Paul[2006-03-03 12:52:36] - Sam: I'm sorry, I don't know the answer to your question.
-Paul[2006-03-03 12:34:18] - Tennis legend Borg auctioning Wimbledon trophies..... why would anyone want to buy trophies that someone else earned? -sam
[2006-03-03 12:31:18] - only 3 years in prison? isn't that too weak? -sam
[2006-03-03 12:30:39] - British glam rocker Gary Glitter was sentenced to three years in prison by a Vietnamese court Friday after being found guilty of molesting two 11-year-old girls. http://www.mtv.com/news/articles/1525320/20060303/glitter_gary.jhtml?headlines=true -sam
[2006-03-03 12:19:05] - to_asp_gurus: what's the relationship between com+ components and the dll files? -sam
[2006-03-03 12:17:36] - paul: also, it seems like salary raises has to do a lot with "what have you done for us lately" -sam
[2006-03-03 12:15:57] - paul: about the raise, i guess it depends what you are making now. if your currently salary is really low, maybe they will be ok with 25% increase -sam
[2006-03-03 12:13:56] - paul: when you compile the asp page, do the com+ components from the page get stored to dll files? -sam
[2006-03-03 12:06:26] - ent. -- Xpovos
[2006-03-03 12:06:21] - Paul: I got a 25% raise when I went from 'temp' to 'full time'. However, I'm still so far underpaid, that that 25% increase was almost laughable. So, while 25% sounds like a lot, it really depends on where you start from. Look at it more in absolute terms, I think. A raise of 5-6K/year is a big raise, more than 8K is probably too much, less than 3K is probably insuffici
[2006-03-03 12:06:04] - mig: Well, I guess 6 months ago I got about a 3% increase in my salary but I don't think that was really considered a raise. -Paul
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