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[2008-04-24 14:30:14] - kaleb: i'll be there at like 4:00 as usual and leave whenever you want to leave. but i'd like to stay at least a few hours - aaron
[2008-04-24 14:29:06] - a questionable new T-shirt feature being offered by cnn - aaron
[2008-04-24 14:26:24] - aaron: not coming. my car's in the shop (again). I'm hoping to pick it up tonight - vinnie
[2008-04-24 14:12:28] - i won't be there. i'm picking up somebody at the airport. ~a
[2008-04-24 14:09:04] - aaron: I'm coming. What time will you get there and leave? - Kaleb
[2008-04-24 13:06:21] - ddr_people: itg@nvcc? - aaron
[2008-04-24 12:58:34] - Paul: Heh, no he's going to vote for Obama if he gets the chance, I think; but he's incredulous about it. He's positive something's going to happen to remove him from the equation. E.g. Clinton intrigue, assassination, the population of America waking up and saying, "Holy shit! Obama's black!". -- Xpovos
[2008-04-24 12:40:56] - Xpovos: Maybe it's time for him to vote for Nader?
-Paul[2008-04-24 12:30:00] - a: I know. I just thought it was funny.
[2008-04-24 11:54:45] - Of course, he also hates the Clintons because apparently they own a large share of some unpopular capitalist/tyrant corporations on the island. A large stake in the power companies, or something. Interestingly, he's also a Democrat, so that makes his choice this year particularly poignant. Tinged with cultural racism and an absolute loathing for Hillary... -- Xpovos
[2008-04-24 11:53:24] - Paul: Acknowledge and accept the second, and can negate the first, even though I know you're being facetious. One of my co-workers is Haitian. And repeatedly tells me about how much the Haitians hate black people; despite being predominantly black. -- Xpovos
[2008-04-24 11:39:34] - anon: "not that i have any right to lecture on capitalization rules" ~a
[2008-04-24 11:35:57] - Xpovos: Depends on what you mean by suitable. I think McCain might cause the most harm as president (although Clinton is giving him a run for his money), but I think Obama might be the least capable leader. -Paul
[2008-04-24 11:33:49] - Xpovos: I disagree. Clearly minorities (women included, even though they outnumber men) can't be racist and women can't be sexist. It's a contradiction in terms. There's no such thing as reverse racism or reverse sexism. -Paul
[2008-04-24 11:25:29] - To make it clear, that's attempting to state her position, not mine. Of the remaining candidates I think McCain is the least suitable to run our government. -- Xpovos
[2008-04-24 11:24:56] - a: I think it's just Americans. Clearly Europeans aren't racist. But seeing as all Americans are--and sexist too--it's logical. White men once again decide who gets to be the president. Can there be any doubt that John McCain will win? -- Xpovos
[2008-04-24 11:15:37] - I love that people are offering grammar lessons on the message board.
[2008-04-24 11:11:46] - a: Isn't it more like you're not supposed to use sentence fragments at all? -Paul
[2008-04-24 10:47:11] - a: Wouldn't that only be if you're citing someone? - aaron
[2008-04-24 10:23:01] - paul: by the way, you're not supposed to capitalize sentence fragments. not that i have any right to lecture on capitalization rules but i thought that you might want to know since you obviously care about capitalization. ~a
[2008-04-24 10:20:41] - Or maybe it's just everybody. ~a
[2008-04-24 10:12:37] - Or maybe it's just white males of any stripe. -Paul
[2008-04-24 10:12:23] - Maybe I'm a little late to the party, but I think it's interesting that the Huffington Post article is basically saying that the democrats are a bunch of racist and sexist bastards. I thought that was what the Republicans were supposed to be.
-Paul[2008-04-24 09:45:57] - vinnie: u dork! ~gurkie
[2008-04-23 23:03:46] - vinnie, i don't get it. ~a
[2008-04-23 17:56:09] - wait I thought of a better setup for that joke: what do you call a vegetable running for president? as you can tell, I came up with the punchline first - vinnie
[2008-04-23 17:53:30] - hey y'all I invented a joke. what presidential candidate really likes his green veggies? broccobama - vinnie
[2008-04-23 16:45:46] - Chimera cat. I feel worse for the twin that didn't make it. -- Xpovos
[2008-04-23 15:45:58] - poor kitty (that was me before) ~gurkie
[2008-04-23 15:45:43] - http://www.cnn.com/video/#/video/us/2008/04/23/vo.fl.6legged.kitten.wsvn
[2008-04-23 15:22:21] - a: LGE-VX8300/1.0 UP. Browser/6.2.3.2 (GUI) MMP/2.0 - Kaleb
[2008-04-23 10:14:06] - aaron: i agree about sunken city, it seems like a lot of luck... I had no clue what was going on while playing... ~gurkie
[2008-04-23 00:36:51] - kaleb: what's your user agent? http://whatsmyuseragent.com/ ~a
[2008-04-22 23:53:43] - kaleb: let me see what i can find out. ~a
[2008-04-22 23:08:15] - a: Strangely enough, currently the board crashes my cell phone browser. This was happening earlier as well, in the few days prior to you adding the search box. Maybe my browser is just a pile of shit. - Kaleb
[2008-04-22 16:00:50] - kaleb: i think i maybe fixed your search-box-is-too-big bug on your cell phone. ~a
[2008-04-22 15:44:20] - a: It did occur to me that it could be sarcastic (seems pretty over-the-top) but I didn't think Huffington Post usually did that kind of stuff. anyway, I went back and read the rest and I think it's tongue-in-cheek in the way paul sometimes is, in that he still means what he says - vinnie
[2008-04-22 15:40:55] - a: I did read it literally, but my "Idiocy" comment still stands even if it is tongue-in-cheek. It would just be slightly less idiotic. -- Xpovos
[2008-04-22 15:34:34] - it's interesting that you guys are saying this. i think i didn't read the article as literally as you did. "This is an election about whether the people of Pennsylvania hate blacks more than they hate women." it sounded tongue in cheek. am i totally wrong here? ~a
[2008-04-22 15:09:47] - xpovos: jesus christ, I had to stop reading that after two paragraphs full of ridiculous presumptions and sexism - vinnie
[2008-04-22 13:15:36] - Wow. Idiocy. -- Xpovos
[2008-04-22 12:49:40] - vinnie: Star City games is -buying- Bitterblossom for $15. Anycraze is still selling it for $12. They have 0 in stock, but that's a $3/card profit... insane. -- Xpovos
[2008-04-22 11:34:25] - mig: I remember seeing that at Travis' place a while back and saying something similar. But he's just an actor trying to make a living. The movie will be absolute crap, though. -- Xpovos
[2008-04-22 11:03:48] - http://imdb.com/title/tt0460780/ my respect for jason statham just got knocked down a few pegs. - mig
[2008-04-22 08:36:44] - Paul: To be fair, the article doesn't really cover the issue. Presumably they could refuse to be tested as well, and eventually it would have to be a parental decision. It's just in this case, the state has done a CPS on the kids. I'm pretty sure if the kids wanted to a lawyer somewhere is salivating over this thing. -- Xpovos
[2008-04-21 19:10:51] - paul: ok, i so did not see the "not" in there. it's been a long day.... - mig
[2008-04-21 19:10:00] - paul: why are you surprised? children are property of the government, didn't you know that? - mig
[2008-04-21 18:32:45] - http://www.reuters.com/article/domesticNews/idUSN2143974720080421 Funny that the adults can legally refuse DNA testing but the kids can't. Not surprising, though. -Paul
[2008-04-21 18:30:57] - http://movies.go.com/zombie-strippers/d949211/horror Here's an interesting sounding movie. -Paul
[2008-04-21 18:23:19] - a: Funny that you mentioned Expelled. I just heard about it today. Wikipedia has a pretty long article about the movie. I was initially intrigued but after reading more about it, it doesn't seem like too good of a movie. -Paul
[2008-04-21 18:21:28] - Gurkie: Nevermind, I guess I should've read everything before posting.
-Paul[2008-04-21 18:20:44] - Gurkie: I'm confused. Would you eat in vitro made meat? -Paul
[2008-04-21 18:20:16] - a: Sad. I wonder why they got rid of the backwards Rebel Yell. Seems like Kings Dominion is really going downhill (no pun intended). -Paul
[2008-04-21 17:17:43] - a: I buy the 99 cents Arizona iced tea from a convinience store at the building I work at. -sam
[2008-04-21 17:16:43] - aaron: BARF! you may have just made up my mind for me~gurkie
[2008-04-21 17:15:21] - a: I am not entirely sure, I mean from my perspective that was no more alive then a fruit/vegetable possibly less... The origin of it is religion not me saying "no cruelty to animals." but I did chop my hair... I guess my initial response was ew no still dont eat it, but then i thought about it more and im not sure ... ~gurkie
[2008-04-21 15:52:46] - but that looks delicious! - aaron
[2008-04-21 15:52:39] - a: http://www.angryflower.com/vegeta.gif ? - aaron
[2008-04-21 14:05:00] - gurkie: i assume that meat-sanssuffering isn't enough, right? ~a
[2008-04-21 14:04:10] - vinnie: thanks. i'm still playing around with it. i like how things turned out so far and it was pretty easy to code up since mysql has a pretty easy to use search. sadly, there doesn't seem to be much in the way of playing around with the search database: i kind of wanted that old "new word" feature but i can't figure out an easy way to get that. ~a
[2008-04-21 12:38:13] - gurkie: I thought Sunken City was fun. I'd like to play it more to see strategy in action. I do agree with Aaron that it would be more fun with 3+ people. - Kaleb
[2008-04-21 11:16:19] - gurkie: It reminded me a lot of Aquaduct, where it's easy to teach, and stuff you do inadvertently helps or hurts other players, but you're not usually in direct conflict. also, dice rolling is crucial - aaron
[2008-04-21 11:14:59] - gurkie: It was OK, not great. BoardGameGeek gave it a 6.3 which I think is about right. - aaron
[2008-04-21 10:50:51] - a: in vitro made human meat will be the next big thing... Such a delicacy! yum! ~gurkie
[2008-04-21 10:08:18] - kaleb/aaron: how was sunken city? at some point you guys will have to teach me these games! ~gurkie
[2008-04-21 09:56:12] - a: love the search. thanks for adding it - vinnie
[2008-04-21 09:55:36] - a: i like how you describe it as real meat (which I agree with) and the title of the article calls it fake meat... ~gurkie
[2008-04-21 09:48:47] - a: going to Ikea? Its like a triangle... I am not saying to get to springfield mall but to get to Ikea/Potomac Mills... it is a LOT faster from my place... it takes 25-30 mins... ~gurkie
[2008-04-21 09:43:57] - odd. peta is putting up money (lots of money) for a new type of real meat (sans the suffering). ~a
[2008-04-21 03:38:58] - hmmm. i kind of wanted to see expelled. the previews looked pretty nice, and the topic interested me. however it seems like the critics all hated it. ~a
[2008-04-20 21:42:02] - kaleb: i'm not sure why. why? ~a
[2008-04-20 21:41:13] - the rebel yell is 100% forwards again!
~a[2008-04-20 17:03:54] - a: The search box looks really big, and on my cell phone it's like 5 columns tall. - Kaleb
[2008-04-20 14:59:43] - a: I assumed it was a shortcut to "/title" but search makes much more sense, and I like. -- Xpovos
[2008-04-20 14:37:23] - anon: the other box is a search box. i can remove it (or move it somewhere else) if it's annoying. ~a
[2008-04-20 14:25:09] - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tyson_Mao also this guy from B+TG had a best time of about 45 seconds on Petrus, and then switched to Fridrich to get his time below 20 seconds - aaron
[2008-04-20 14:24:43] - a: Oddly enough, the submit button still doesn't show on my cell phone browser when I use that query string.
[2008-04-20 14:21:47] - a: i don't know if it's better or not, but i was always put off by the fact that Lars Petrus' best time is around 20 seconds... - aaron
[2008-04-20 10:32:56] - title: Oh, god, why is there a new box?
[2008-04-20 04:26:44] - title: Do you remember that sign at Joe's Diner? "It's always time for pie."
[2008-04-20 00:19:24] - kaleb: http://aporter.org/msg/?class=submit ~a
[2008-04-19 22:57:59] - a: Would you be able to add a submit button on the page for submitting a message? I'm not able to submit messages from my cell phone because it requires an enter key, which my phone doesn't have. Aaron suggested you could alternatively have a seperate page designed for lame web browsers like the one my phone uses. - Kaleb
[2008-04-19 01:34:13] - though it's possible you're right anyways. ~a
[2008-04-19 01:20:54] - gurkie: "123/ffx cty parkway is a lot faster than 95/495 imho" seriously? 123 and ffcp have like 1000 lights. ~a
[2008-04-18 16:25:09] - i didn't know lars had a wikipedia page
~a[2008-04-18 16:22:37] - aaron: why is the fridrich method better? ~a
[2008-04-18 16:16:47] - sam: where to you buy it? ~a
[2008-04-18 15:54:14] - I love 99 cents Arizona Iced Tea with Lemon! -sam
[2008-04-18 15:31:20] - a: anywhere they want to!! - aaron
[2008-04-18 15:19:40] - vinnie: Yes My beauty in the moon!! It's crazy how it kind of veers towards 6/8 in some parts, and towards 4/4 in others... but it's always both. i really like that song - aaron
[2008-04-18 14:29:39] - a: in the boo-ary ~gurkie
[2008-04-18 13:07:31] - aaron: ahhhh there's one song on the Kelley Polar CD that's like in 6/8 and 4/4 simultaneously. pretty awesome - vinnie
[2008-04-18 13:07:06] - silly, ghosts can't make beer! - vinnie
[2008-04-18 12:50:52] - aaron: where do ghosts make their beer? ~a
[2008-04-18 12:38:55] - gurkie: it is cheaper to bottle it yourself. . . . though you don't bottle it right after making the beer. you make the beer, wait a few months (fermentation), then bottle it yourself. . . . or have it bottled. i'll try to get exact pricing together. ~a
[2008-04-18 09:54:16] - a: is it cheaper to bottle it yourself or to have them do it? I like this idea... I think I will send out an email
~gurkie[2008-04-18 07:25:02] - $1.50 a bottle is quite reasonable all things considered. -- Xpovos
[2008-04-18 00:49:31] - the cost also depends if you want to bottle them yourself or not. ~a
[2008-04-18 00:47:55] - gurkie: yeah, that was for you too. 1.50 a bottle. maybe a little more. ~a
[2008-04-18 00:46:00] - xpovos: the prices are much cheaper than 500. it's closer to 200/130 = 1.50/bottle (expensive but not too bad). part of what you're paying for is use of their boilers. ~a
[2008-04-18 00:11:15] - gurkie: I'll note that for next time, thanks. This time I just took 95/495 back since I was already familiar with it. I didn't want to risk getting lost on a new route since it was already pretty late at night. - Kaleb
[2008-04-17 16:25:27] - a: want to (will you) ask them about non private events and see if they have a schedule of classes/workshops available? ~gurkie
[2008-04-17 16:24:40] - Xpovos: I agree but I dont think we will get people to pony up 5 bucks a bottle for a beer that we all have to agree on and make ourselves and buy 2000 bucks worth of... I did email them asking about non private events ~gurkie
[2008-04-17 16:23:09] - a: they have an sbc university too that looks fun! Did you like it in 05? And how was the beer? ~gurkie
[2008-04-17 16:19:31] - gurkie: At grocery stores, quality beer usually goes for well over a dollar a bottle, frequently heading rapidly towards $2. At $500/100 bottles ->$5/bottle, it's more expensive by a large margin, but there's added fun and you get to see the thing work. -- Xpovos
[2008-04-17 16:17:26] - a: That brewing thing looks seriously cool. -- Xpovos
[2008-04-17 16:17:05] - a: hmm wow it is expensive, i wonder if its cheaper if its not a "private event" 500 bucks for a batch of beer (if ur getting 4) seems REALLY steep ~gurkie
[2008-04-17 15:43:12] - kaleb: i take back the on ur way bit, you might want to look up directions back online taking 123/ffx cty parkway is a lot faster than 95/495 imho ~gurkie
[2008-04-17 15:39:06] - kaleb: google puts it at 20.8 miles away (37 mins) but I do think springfield mall is on your way... ~gurkie
[2008-04-17 15:25:17] - aaron: Actually, I think I will do DDR today. I was going to go to IKEA because it initally said it was only 17 mi away. Turns out it's 29 mi away, but Springfield Mall is on the way. I could go to DDR and then IKEA, and then back home. IKEA is open until 9:30, so I have a good amount of time. - Kaleb
[2008-04-17 15:19:00] - gurkie: i think it's a great idea. if you know of anybody else who's interested, i'd be happy to help set it up. ~a
[2008-04-17 15:17:09] - gurkie: some things to note: it's fairly expensive and you have to brew a large amount at once. microbrewing usually creates thousands of cases per batch. this is like micro-micro-brewing so each "group" of people brew like 100 bottles. ~a
[2008-04-17 15:14:24] - gurkie: shenandoah brewing (brew-on-premise / do-it-yourself) location. ~a
[2008-04-17 14:32:18] - a: i think that would be a fun thing for all of us friends to do... we can all make our own beers then decide which one of us makes the best beer, and who has no sense of taste! ~gurkie
[2008-04-17 14:30:24] - a: where do you guys go to make beer? ~gurkie
[2008-04-17 14:29:57] - a: we get a holiday party and i have a happy hour tomorrow... but we dont make beer... making beer seems cooler than just getting free alcohol and food... ~gurkie
[2008-04-17 14:19:12] - gurkie: you don't ever do fun things at work? i.e. they don't ever have like holiday parties or anything? ~a
[2008-04-17 13:12:49] - a: making 6 cases of beer is a work thing? where do you work??? ~gurkie
[2008-04-17 13:10:25] - i'll be making beer! like i did in 2005 except this time i doubt i'll be coming home with 6 cases. ~a
[2008-04-17 13:07:38] - i have to skip
i have a work thing till 2000. ~a[2008-04-17 12:01:43] - aaron: I think I'm going to skip DDR today. I have other things I need to finish, especially for work. - Kaleb
[2008-04-17 10:16:49] - a: nice. you coming to DDR today? - aaron
[2008-04-16 16:40:59] - aaron: superflip: R2 F B R B2 R T2 L B2 R T- U- R2 F U2 B2 T2 R- L T (f=front, b=back, u=underside, t=top, -=counterclockwise) ~a
[2008-04-16 13:38:47] - aaron: thanks! - pierce
[2008-04-16 08:47:58] - The headline says it all sometimes. -- Xpovos
[2008-04-16 08:16:50] - aba: This turns the world upside down! -- Xpovos
[2008-04-15 22:51:02] - happy birthday pierce!! - aaron
[2008-04-15 22:32:18] - thanks kaleb and gurkie! - pierce
[2008-04-15 19:17:31] - xpovos: cory doctorow has always run boingboing. he became a sci fi author later. - aba
[2008-04-15 18:46:17] - Huh, Doctorow posts on boingboing now? -- Xpovos
[2008-04-15 12:26:41] - http://www.boingboing.net/2008/04/14/super-mario-bros-the.html Super Mario Bros theme performed by an RC car on a row of liquid-filled bottles - Kaleb
[2008-04-15 12:23:37] - pierce: Happy BDiddy - Kaleb
[2008-04-15 09:49:59] - pierce: happy birthday! (and boo taxes!) ~gurkie
[2008-04-15 05:50:18] - title: thanks! - pierce
[2008-04-15 05:50:08] - http://www.thedailyshow.com/video/index.jhtml?videoId=166074&title=gaffe-in - pierce
[2008-04-14 21:19:36] - however, I don't think I was being inconsistent other than that. I still think Paul is wrong, (yes) I do still think he's being willfully obtuse. However, not everything that can be said, needs to be said and in retrospect I wish I had kept that opinion to myself. Taking the discourse to that level was my mistake, and that's what I'm apologizing for. - pierce
[2008-04-14 21:18:05] - I added the "...and I apologize" because I understood that it really wasn't an apology in and of itself. - pierce
[2008-04-14 14:51:17] - Paul: when talking to me? Cause I sincerely doubt I would have thought it was an apology... ~gurkie
[2008-04-14 13:41:52] - Gurkie: I recognize it as an apology. I've made some similar ones in the past.
-Paul[2008-04-14 13:41:26] - Pierce: It's probably hard to believe, but I'm really not offended. I just think it's disappointing that you seem to think that the only way anybody could possibly disagree with your opinion is if they're being willfully obtuse. -Paul
[2008-04-14 13:40:10] - Pierce: Heh, no need to apologize for saying what you think, I hardly ever do. I just didn't think that calling me willfully obtuse was helping you support your point at all. -Paul
[2008-04-14 12:45:27] - I think it's more of an "I'm sorry if it caused pain, but the fact that it caused pain doesn't negate the fact that I am right." Very logical. -- Xpovos
[2008-04-14 12:03:15] - pierce: yeah, the "i stand by it" kind of confuses the situation. if it was a mean thing to say and you wish you hadn't said it . . . then i think that you wouldn't stand by it. ~a
[2008-04-14 11:02:00] - pierce: thats how you apologize? if you hadnt added the "and I apologize" I would never have realized... ~gurkie
[2008-04-14 10:03:38] - aaron: huhuh, yeahhhh! huhuh, yeahhhh! huhuh, yeahhhh! huhuh, yeahhhh! huhuh, yeahhhh! - Kaleb
[2008-04-13 00:48:12] - http://www.channel101.com/shows/view.php?media_id=2325 2 girls and 1 cup: the show. (nsfw) - aaron
[2008-04-11 20:08:41] - pierce: you're such a dick. ~a
[2008-04-11 20:02:58] - ...and I apologize, to be clear. - pierce
[2008-04-11 20:02:26] - paul: no one was yelling, no one made ad hominem attacks. I wasn't saying you're wrong because you're willfully obtuse, I was claiming that you're wrong, and holding to a mistaken belief because of your ideals. In retrospect, it was a mean thing to say and not constructive. I stand by it, but I wish I hadn't said it. - pierce
[2008-04-11 13:16:53] - on the grenade topic, I think evacuating the school and calling in "experts" on explosives was smart, I do think that searching the kids house was overstepping though and now ill let paul argue and have the last word
~gurkie[2008-04-11 13:12:53] - kaleb: yea I meant windows communication foundation (although i thought it was framework) but whatever... ~gurkie
[2008-04-11 12:40:48] - gurkie: By WCF, do you mean Windows Communication Foundation? I only work with .NET 2.0 currently so I haven't touched WCF. - Kaleb
[2008-04-11 11:34:50] - paul: you have the last word. ~a
[2008-04-11 11:34:18] - Vinnie: Oh, sorry. I was actually aiming that comment more at other people than you. I realized you were being sarcastic (or at least hoped you were).
-Paul[2008-04-11 11:33:41] - a: How can I not run away and just let people have the last word? -Paul
[2008-04-11 11:28:36] - paul: sorry I think I was being too sarcastic there. I was trying to defend you, actually. I don't think you're willfully obtuse, and I would have a hard time saying that to a person at all (I mean, how can you really know?). I think you've explained your position pretty well here - vinnie
[2008-04-11 11:22:05] - aaron: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/D.A.N.C.E. - vinnie
[2008-04-11 10:50:39] - when you run away from the conversation, that is different from letting other people have the last word. ~a
[2008-04-11 10:47:46] - Although, I seem to remember people getting mad at me when I let them have the last word too... Oh well.
-Paul[2008-04-11 10:47:10] - Anyway, I have to do work, and I know lots of people get angry with me when I don't automatically agree with them just because they're yelling, so I'm going to go ahead and stop. I'll let whoever wants to have the last word to have it. -Paul
[2008-04-11 10:43:57] - Vinnie: Well, the kid said it was a toy grenade (which turned out to be false). -Paul
[2008-04-11 10:42:57] - Vinnie: I don't even know what willfully obtuse means. If it means not being agreeable just because a bunch of people make ad hominem attacks.... then I guess I am 360 degrees of willfull obtusity. -Paul
[2008-04-11 10:40:45] - Pierce: And in order for aba's point about malicious intent to be relevent at all, you would have to assume that the teachers feared malicious intent from a kid who volunteered information to his teachers that he had a grenade. -Paul
[2008-04-11 10:39:25] - Pierce: Exactly which of my ideals exactly are making me be willfully obtuse? My ideals that teachers should have common sense or my ideal that always overreacting when kids lives could be endangered is a bad thing? -Paul
[2008-04-11 10:32:43] - if the kid said "this is a hollowed-out, defused antique grenade" and then opened the box I might react differently then if I saw a kid just pull a grenade out of a box from across the room - vinnie
[2008-04-11 10:31:18] - yeah I realize I sort of contradicted myself there. that first thing was just my instinct. like how I would react as a teacher if I saw a grenade in a school. but it's hard to pass judgment on the school's decisions without knowing more facts - vinnie
[2008-04-11 10:10:25] - you don't think it's easy to support their actions? or you do support their actions? both? ~a
[2008-04-11 10:08:42] - like how good a look the teacher got at the grenade before they called the evacuation, how much the child told them about the grenade. I don't feel like it's easy to criticize or support the school's decisions without more information - vinnie
[2008-04-11 10:07:00] - at the risk of keeping this debate going: I think the school's actions were probably the ones I would have taken. I know shit about grenades, I'd be afraid of it going off. but there's a lot of information missing here - vinnie
[2008-04-11 10:06:31] - pierce: i think i would rather be willfully pretentious than willfully obtuse. though neither would be even better. ~a
[2008-04-11 10:02:50] - pierce: "full stop" you know they have a punctuation mark for that, don't you? ~a
[2008-04-11 10:00:38] - let's be fair to paul. I'd prefer to get the answer straight from him. paul, do you like to be willfully obtuse? - vinnie
[2008-04-11 09:54:27] - anon: pierce linked that last year
~a[2008-04-11 09:48:35] - kaleb: do you work with WCF? ~gurkie
[2008-04-11 09:48:22] - pierce: i totally agree with you... paul likes to be willfully obtuse. ~gurkie
[2008-04-11 00:19:45] - http://youtube.com/watch?v=Fg_cwI1Xj4M
[2008-04-10 20:54:22] - i don't think we ever had a stratgo debate (heh, i was wondering why your post didn't show up in the search results for stratego) ~a
[2008-04-10 20:49:25] - Heh, I too totally forgot the Stratgo debate... -- Xpovos
[2008-04-10 20:09:13] - paul: ...and on a point of bookkeeping, aba's point was not that the teachers did assume malicious intent, it's that the existence of school violence should inform their handling of the situation. That point stands regardless of whether this kid had malicious intent. - pierce
[2008-04-10 20:09:04] - paul: I'm sorry if that's more direct and accusative than we usually get here (at least lately), but more so than any msgboard discussion I can remember I find myself mind-boggled that there's even a debate. "The kid has a grenade" is not an appropriate scenario for second-guessing and amateur ballistics, full stop. - pierce
[2008-04-10 20:08:55] - paul: and I think it's much more likely that a grenade, of unknown/unconfirmed origin and status, would explode than that a janitor would mix two chemicals that he works with every day. I'd say we should agree to disagree, but not before noting that I think you're being willfully obtuse because it fits your ideals better. - pierce
[2008-04-10 19:28:58] - And with that, I'm leaving work for class. Bye everybody! -Paul
[2008-04-10 19:28:32] - Pierce: I think it's far more plausible that ta janitor might accidentally mix two chemicals together which he works with every day than a 60 year old, defused and hollowed out grenade might randomly explode and kill a bunch of children. -Paul
[2008-04-10 19:27:41] - Pierce: Incorrect. Aparna brought up the whole "violence in school is in the news" angle, implying that the teachers might've thought he brought it in with malicious intent. I was responding to that. -Paul
[2008-04-10 18:45:28] - did you guys miss the word "plausible"? janitors are, after their own fashion, trained professionals in the use of cleaning products. teachers are not assumed to be experts in antique explosives, but they are charged with protecting the children in their care by exercising more common sense and caution. - pierce
[2008-04-10 18:38:08] - yeah and i'm late for ddr. ~a
[2008-04-10 18:37:52] - paul: and you're derailing the conversation. no one here has claimed that he brought it in with malicious intent, nor are any of our claims about the teachers' appropriate reactions based on that assumption. - pierce
[2008-04-10 18:37:38] - Anyway, I would love to stay and debate, but I gotta run to a meeting now. Sorry. I'll just skip to the surrender and grovelling apology for being so wrong.
-Paul[2008-04-10 18:37:12] - yeah, what he said. ~a
[2008-04-10 18:36:59] - pierce: i'm not sure if you want to make that argument. should we overreact to everything that we could possibly overreact to just because underreacting is worse? ~a
[2008-04-10 18:36:56] - Pierce: By extension, shouldn't we evacuate the entire school whenever the janitor is around with some ammonia and/or bleach? You never know when it might mix and create a classroom full of dead or seriously injured kids. -Paul
[2008-04-10 18:35:24] - did the kid have an explanation for where it came from? ~a
[2008-04-10 18:34:58] - aba: I'm not as much upset over them being worried, it's the evacuation and calling the police and fire department and searching the home that I find a bit excessive. -Paul
[2008-04-10 18:34:51] - Worst-plausible-case cost of overreaction: some inconvenience and wasted resources. Worst-plausible-case cost of underreaction: a classroom full of dead or seriously injured kids. And let me be clear that I consider "taking the grenade from the kid and handling it yourself" to be an underreaction. - pierce
[2008-04-10 18:34:45] - ...maybe, to reiterate, I shouldn't be assuming I know more than I actually do when it comes to an explosive device in a classroom full of kids. Evacuation was absolutely the sane thing to do. - pierce
[2008-04-10 18:34:40] - paul: other than the counterpoint that aged explosives become more dangerous, not less, I can safely say I know pretty much nothing about grenades. For all I know, they're hollow by design and the charge is contained in the chassis. Maybe the main explosive content is removed, but there's still some residue or charge that poses a continued danger. - pierce
[2008-04-10 18:34:37] - never mind. link ~a
[2008-04-10 18:32:52] - paul: link to picture? ~a
[2008-04-10 18:32:34] - paul: i doubt anybody thinks the kid was intentionally trying to hurt somebody (including the teachers). even the teachers admitted that it was an "an innocent mistake" ~a
[2008-04-10 18:31:43] - aba: Well, I've seen pictures of the grenade from other articles, so it's a little less dumb. -Paul
[2008-04-10 18:31:15] - paul: considering that kids have brought in real hand guns for show and tell (because they are too unaware to realize that they could hurt people), i don't see how it's wrong for the teachers to have been worried that his "toy" was a live grenade. - aba
[2008-04-10 18:27:36] - And I hope nobody is implying that the teachers thought the kid might've intentionally brought a live grenade to school to hurt people. He was the one who told the teachers he brought it in for show and tell. -Paul
[2008-04-10 18:27:09] - paul: you are only conjecturing on what the grenade looked like. i could conjecture that it looked exactly like a 60 year old grenade would look with no obvious signs of being inert. /shrug it's kind of dumb if you're mocking the teachers over a point you don't even know for certain. - aba
[2008-04-10 18:22:36] - Pierce: Despite whatever low opinions I may have of them, I suspect the teachers here were fully capable of disarming a child that was carrying a two generation old, totally defused grenade. -Paul
[2008-04-10 18:21:36] - Pierce: When the "no gas in car" light comes on, I don't take my car to the professionals. I go to a gas station and fix the problem myself. -Paul
[2008-04-10 18:18:52] - Pierce: Probably the same conceivable world where I would expect teachers to exercise an ounce of common sense and realize that a 60 year old, hollowed out and defused grenade probably isn't going to hurt anybody more than a rock. -Paul
[2008-04-10 18:17:26] - aba: I think this obviously wasn't a weapon also. You would have to pretty much know nothing at all about grenades to think that this was dangerous. I think it would be the equivalent of assuming a water pistol is a real gun. -Paul
[2008-04-10 18:12:29] - a: but if it wasn't inert, improper transportation could have set it off. that's something a principal of a school just wouldn't want to risk. - aba
[2008-04-10 18:12:09] - pierce: no one suggested that we should be deferring to the child. i'm suggesting that there's more than two options. we could doing nothing, we could shut down the school, or we could do any of 100 sane things in between. ~a
[2008-04-10 18:10:27] - aba: just because you're erring on the side of caution doesn't mean that you have to blow the whole situation out of proportion. they could have handled the situation more appropriately. it wasn't a knife, it wasn't a handgun. have somebody transport the damn thing off campus and let it sit till a professional could quietly determine the nature of it. ~a
[2008-04-10 18:09:52] - okay, then, a: in what conceivable world should teachers defer to [a] a child's assurances (in this case faulty assurances) that it's a fake grenade, and [b] their own inexpert opinion on WW2 explosives, in lieu of professionals who actually know what they're doing? - pierce
[2008-04-10 18:07:07] -
poor paul is getting beat up. paul, i'll argue on your side from now on. ~a[2008-04-10 17:59:52] - paul: it's literally the difference between life and death in this case, and common sense dictates that you don't screw around when it comes to kids and explosives. - pierce
[2008-04-10 17:59:36] - paul: in what conceivable world should teachers defer to [a] a child's assurances (in this case faulty assurances) that it's a fake grenade, and [b] their own inexpert opinion on WW2 explosives, in lieu of professionals who actually know what they're doing? - pierce
[2008-04-10 17:44:34] - paul: and with all the recent news about violent encounters in school, i don't think it's wrong to try and err on the side of caution. - aba
[2008-04-10 17:43:48] - paul: i think your analogy is totally off base.... a water pistol is obviously not a weapon. it's more like ad's example of a real gun without a trigger. if you know nothing about guns, you wouldn't necessarily realize that it's harmless. - aba
[2008-04-10 17:15:53] - vinnie: http://aporter.org/msg/?action=search&search=stratego ~a
[2008-04-10 17:10:01] - vinnie: paul thought there was NO luck (nothing was left to chance) in stratego. ~a
[2008-04-10 16:50:26] - I'll be at ddr - vinnie
[2008-04-10 16:48:48] - I don't even remember what that stratego debate was about anymore. did someone think the game was entirely luck? - vinnie
[2008-04-10 16:27:46] - xpovos: "Wow, I never thought Stratego would bring about such a heated debate. -BpemR" ~a
[2008-04-10 15:46:50] - I'm not against Paul, but I'm not 100% with him, either. But then again, I didn't read the article. If it's a game of luck why do I consistently beat my co-workers? -- Xpovos
[2008-04-10 15:18:24] - a: I'll play your game of luck... -Paul
[2008-04-10 15:18:07] - To me, it's like mistaking a water pistol for a gun and evacuating the school because of it. -Paul
[2008-04-10 15:17:25] - aba: I really think you should be able to tell that the grenade was harmless. It was from the world war 2 era, so it probably looked like an antique, and I read elsewhere that it was hollowed out in addition to having everything else removed. -Paul
[2008-04-10 15:13:54] - a: actually i think i might have had stratego at one point... it looks like capture the flag (at a first glance of the first paragraph) ~gurkie
[2008-04-10 15:12:30] - better yet play set - http://www.pattrns.com/ I found it harder with the different shapes... ~gurkie
[2008-04-10 15:02:58] - it's everybody against paul. who wants to discuss stratego? ~a
[2008-04-10 14:59:04] - paul: sorry, i think the reaction was fine. even if a little kid says it's a "toy" the school administrators had no way of knowing it was inert without having further explosives knowledge. - aba
[2008-04-10 14:41:34] - I also didnt think the kid got arrested, hence it being an innocent mistake by a young boy or whatever paul quoted. Plastic fake grenade is further from a real grenade then that was, he said it was a toy too maybe he thought the explosives were removed and they werent the teachers were right to err on the side of caution. ~gurkie
[2008-04-10 14:08:08] - i didn't think the kid got arrested. ~a
[2008-04-10 13:57:18] - so . . . along the same lines as the pill bottle, if i bring in a pipe for smoking crack but not the crack itself, would that be cool? ~a
[2008-04-10 13:49:02] - paul: maybe they wanted to be sure he didn't remove the explosive and detonator himself. ~a
[2008-04-10 13:44:39] - I read in another article that they searched the kid's home for more "explosives". The grenade wasn't an explosive! -Paul
[2008-04-10 13:44:11] - a: I'm confused, I'm not sure what point you're trying to make. I agree it's not technically a toy, but it's about as far from a real grenade as possible. -Paul
[2008-04-10 13:39:14] - paul: i like your analogy . . . you didn't like my gun analogy? ~a
[2008-04-10 13:36:20] - That's like arresting a kid for having a pill bottle for something illegal because he brought "real" illegal medicine to school. -Paul
[2008-04-10 13:34:40] - Both the explosive charge and denator had been removed. -Paul
[2008-04-10 13:33:29] - paul: right. except that it was a real grenade. ~a
[2008-04-10 13:32:11] - He had a world war 2 era grenade which was completely harmless that he decided to bring in for show and tell. Nobody had any reason to believe it was a real grenade. -Paul
[2008-04-10 13:25:18] - paul: you can not bring grenades to school... and the school calling the police is justified, what if the explosive bits hadnt been removed and it had exploded? the kid could very well have not realized the difference. ~gurkie
[2008-04-10 13:16:09] - paul: it was a real grenade . . . not a toy. if i take a real gun and remove the trigger, firing bolt, and bullets, what would we call that? ~a
[2008-04-10 12:30:04] - http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,349488,00.html "an innocent mistake on the part of a little boy."? How about an overreaction on the part of a stupid school administration? -Paul
[2008-04-10 12:10:57] - gurkie: "if you want an image ... removed from this webpage, please let me know." ~a
[2008-04-10 12:09:22] - gurkie: but i do not publish the pictures in an open forum. you should give me pictures where you look hideous and where people would otherwise (if they were public) be mad at me. many of the pictures of me would be not good if they made their way on to the open internet. ~a
[2008-04-10 12:06:09] - i'll be there closer to 1845. ~a
[2008-04-10 11:08:46] - ddr_people: itg@nvcc@1745? - aaron
[2008-04-10 10:03:54] - a: pictures take time to prepare, I have to make sure I dont give you any where I look hideous and I need to make sure that I am giving u pics that people wont be mad at me for giving you... And Im a busy girl I havent had like any time to get this stuff together, although it is on my todo list... Along with 20+ odd other things... ~gurkie
[2008-04-10 10:01:52] - a: well i need to find the right guy to help me make kids, or i need this technology to hurry up and get approved... ~gurkie
[2008-04-09 16:28:44] - gurkie: on the topic of taking a long time, you aren't the only person who has photos i'm waiting on. i have two different coworkers who independently promised to send me photos three months ago. why is it so hard? i'm so confused. ~a
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